Wanting to start all grain

[frostyp]

Been extract brewing a couple of years now wanting to get into all grain next year.
Acquiring equipment
Question is when mashing grain in mash tun why does it have to be a a measured amount when more is going to be poured on to rinse ?
Can the grain in the tun not just be completely immersed in water to the maximum the mash tun can hold and the remainder of the water fly sparged over surely the same liquid amount is extracting the sugars, or am I missing something? Here to learn



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[Moose_MI]

How to Brew - Palmer
"The grist/water ratio is another factor influencing the performance of the mash. A thinner mash of >2 quarts of water per pound of grain dilutes the relative concentration of the enzymes, slowing the conversion, but ultimately leads to a more fermentable mash because the enzymes are not inhibited by a high concentration of sugars. A stiff mash of <1.25 quarts of water per pound is better for protein breakdown, and results in a faster overall starch conversion, but the resultant sugars are less fermentable and will result in a sweeter, maltier beer. A thicker mash is more gentle to the enzymes because of the lower heat capacity of grain compared to water. A thick mash is better for multirest mashes because the enzymes are not denatured as quickly by a rise in temperature."

 

[chickypad]

Not arguing with the above but just want to point out that many folks especially with BIAB do a full volume mash with no sparge at all. While there may be slight differences in efficiency, fermentability, etc. I think in the scheme of things they are pretty minor (I don't recall all the details but researched this a bit when I started with some BIAB batches - probably on the braukaiser site). I'd say the main consideration would be the effect on pH. If you pay attention to that you should be good even with a very thin mash.

 

[frostyp]

Okay thanks



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[dkevinb]

I highly recommend you browse the Brew In A Bag sub-forum of the All Grain forum here before you commit to buying equipment. If you've been brewing extract with steeping grains then all you need to go AG is a mesh bag.

A lot of the things that traditional 3-vessel brewers hold as self-evident truths are routinely and successfully ignored in BIAB. One of which is the sacred water to grist ratio. The thick mash (1.25 - 1.5 quarts/pound) comes from English brewing tradition. The Germans have been using much thinner mashes (twice that, at least) for a few hundred years. BIABers regularly go 3-4 quarts per pound with good success. We also often don't do a separate sparge step unless we want to bring up the boil volume. Sparge is built into BIAB.

Bottom line, there are lots of ways to skin a cat, and pros and cons to each way. If you want to get into AG quickly, cheaply and easily you might consider BIAB.

Edit: chickypad types faster than I do.

 

[RM-MN]

How to Brew - Palmer
"The grist/water ratio is another factor influencing the performance of the mash. A thinner mash of >2 quarts of water per pound of grain dilutes the relative concentration of the enzymes, slowing the conversion, but ultimately leads to a more fermentable mash because the enzymes are not inhibited by a high concentration of sugars. A stiff mash of <1.25 quarts of water per pound is better for protein breakdown, and results in a faster overall starch conversion, but the resultant sugars are less fermentable and will result in a sweeter, maltier beer. A thicker mash is more gentle to the enzymes because of the lower heat capacity of grain compared to water. A thick mash is better for multirest mashes because the enzymes are not denatured as quickly by a rise in temperature."

Gee, if this is true and I'm slowing the conversion by using nearly 3qts per pound, maybe I should try a thicker mash and get my mash to convert faster. I could be looking at a 5 minute mash then?

 

[cease]

Don't over think it. BIAB would be an easy way to get into all grain of you already have a big enough pot. To get into all grain I just made my own mash tun from a HD 10g cooler, that's it.

I heat mash water and mash, refill my kettle and heat sparge water, drain MT into bucket, sparge into kettle, fill kettle with wort in the bucket then boil.


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[Munchkin]

I myself just started BIAB not to long ago. Im so glad i started doing all grain this way to learn the basics.

 

[frostyp]

Mainly wanting to know why you just can't mash the grains with as much liquid as you can fit in tun then rinse to pre boil volume , why is the ratio important if you're rinsing out the sugars anyway


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[RM-MN]

Mainly wanting to know why you just can't mash the grains with as much liquid as you can fit in tun then rinse to pre boil volume , why is the ratio important if you're rinsing out the sugars anyway


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I think the ratios are mostly for two purposes, one is to make sure the mash is thin enough to stir, the other is to try to maximize the efficiency of extracting the sugars. Making the mash thinner works pretty well for the stirring but may not get all the sugars out when using a smaller sparge amount.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

when you go to sparge and you have calculated your preboil volume requirements and you have 10-12 pounds of grain and your sparge water volume is a half gallon, you'll understand why lol.

 

[frostyp]

Ok thanks - lot to learn eh


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[kh54s10]

Mainly wanting to know why you just can't mash the grains with as much liquid as you can fit in tun then rinse to pre boil volume , why is the ratio important if you're rinsing out the sugars anyway


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My mash tun will hold 10 gallons of water, Depending on the grain bill and water absorption I might get more wort than needed for the boil without sparging.

If you need 7 gallons preboil and do a first run and get 6.5 gallons that will only leave you with a half gallon to "rinse" with.

I would stick with tried and true until you have a grasp on the procedures rather that reinventing the wheel.

 

[dkevinb]

Mainly wanting to know why you just can't mash the grains with as much liquid as you can fit in tun then rinse to pre boil volume , why is the ratio important if you're rinsing out the sugars anyway


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You can do just that. That's what BIAB does. If your kettle is big enough you don't have to sparge at all.

 

[frostyp]

Is it best to maybe acquire a blichmann float ball type rinser for mash tun keeping a constant amount above the grain and letting it trickle through the whole grain rather than sprinkling over


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[b-boy]

I think being able to control your mash ratios gives you just a little bit more control over your process. It's another variable you can play with to fine tune your beer.

I batch sparge. I play around with water additions. I generally adjust them during the mash. Knowing my exact water volumes and grain weights allows me to do this. If I just dumped in enough water to fill my mash tun I'd have a harder time controlling my pH and mineral content during the mash.

 

[chickypad]

Is it best to maybe acquire a blichmann float ball type rinser for mash tun keeping a constant amount above the grain and letting it trickle through the whole grain rather than sprinkling over

There's not going to be a "best" way, there are gazillions of ways to brew you need to find what works for you. The 3 main types of sparging are full volume mash/no sparge, batch sparge, and fly sparging. If doing the latter 2 then you generally want to have enough water to make your sparge effective. I would research a bit and decide how you want to go before thinking about buying a bunch of expensive equipment. You may decide you like BIAB and/or batch sparging. At any rate, I think a $70 autosparge arm would be way down my list of acquisitions if just starting out.

 

[ghohn]

Also, using a consistent grain/water ratio will allow you to more accurately nail your desired mash temperature. To me, that's the #1 thing about the mash.