Voss kviek yeast thoughts

[Protos]

I don't think the time of the year matters for harvesting juniper. If we look at the pictures from Norwegian farmhouse brewing reports, they brew both in summer and in winter, always using fresh juniper branches.

 

[youngdh]

This has been a great little thread so far. Thank you.

There's so many conflicting opinions of Voss, is hard to make heads or tails. What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

I'm going to go ahead with my very simple pale ale probably on Wednesday. Will ferment at a steady 95°. I'm in no rush to bottle, so it'll probably see 2-3 weeks in the primary. From what I'm getting from you all, that's the key. Time to condition. Probably a week at 95, then pull the plug on the heat until I'm ready to bottle.

You can pull the plug on the heat as soon as it hits FG. For my 3G batches I’m stopping the heat about 36 hours after pitching the yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

You can pull the plug on the heat as soon as it hits FG. For my 3G batches I’m stopping the heat about 36 hours after pitching the yeast.

I think it's desirable to lower the temperature asap after fermentation finished, as staling processes and other negative developments are accelerated the higher the temperature is.

 

[Beer666]

Always found it very clean even at high temps. Typically brew IPA'S and RIS.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

What it seems like to me is that brewers get sold on the marketed fast, fast, fast and then disappointed by what is really a very green beer.

This does not match my experience. I kicked the keg of the first IPA brewed with Voss 4 weeks after brew day! It was in the keg and force carbonated at 7 days, tasted great at 14 days, and I just could not stop taking "samples". My other beers have all been wonderful at around 2 weeks after brew day (~1 week to ferment, ~1 week to keg condition).

I don't believe the hype that Kveik is the solution for all styles of beer, though I have only used Voss myself.

Voss produces sulphur at low temperatures, and as the temperature gets higher the sulphur is driven off and more of the yeast's natural character shows through.

I saw this in my one batch that was fermented at room temperature...it was also a low-ish gravity Pale Ale. The sulphur faded away after a few purges and some time. You really had to dig to find any Kveik or Voss character in the flavor. Voss at room temp with time to clean up might produce a decently neutral ale, but I would probably just use a different Kveik or a standard ale yeast.

If you don't give the yeast lots of nutrition I have found it to produce a more earthy, slightly spicy orange peel note. However, if you give Voss lots of nutrition, and keep it hot, then the esters are far more along the lines of orange blossom, and are rather pretty.

That could very well be the case. I have always followed general advice from David Heath's YouTube channel about adding yeast nutrient. This sounds especially important to beers below 1.070 OG. I have always underpitched (have read conflicting info on how much this matters) and fermented at 85F.

I brewed an iteration of my Voss Pale Ale on Saturday. I pitched 1 pack of Lallemand Voss into a 5 gallon batch (in the 1.050 OG range). I saw activity in a few hours, strong krausen by evening, and it was going crazy all day Sunday. I pitched at 85F, set my chamber heater to 85F, it climbed to 90F during fermentation. I will dry hop in another day or two. My goal is to have this beer on tap at a group event next Thursday (~12 days after brew day).

 

[Miraculix]

I bitter my kveiks and sahtis with dried juniper needles I buy in health stores. Adding berries was not authentic, Garshol specifically stressed in some publication.
IDK whether you can buy dried juniper needles in Germany, but Germany is blessed with that the authentic Juniperis communis is the wild juniper there, unlike in USA or here in Southern Europe, where a lot of different poisonous species grow along.

Found the needles in a German online shop

 

[Protos]

Found the needles in a German online shop

Great! Now the most difficult part: defining how much you need. I found zero suggestions on that matter in even the most detailed books and blogs. They recommend "a medium-size branch" at best. Not knowing much of juniper branch grading in Scandinavian countryside, I needed to experiment. Dried juniper is less potent than fresh, so a dose visually roughly assessed as the dry equivalent to a "medium-sized branch" didn't add much flavour to my ales. So I experimented further, and now I use 15 g dried needles to 1 L of liquor, boiling them for 15 minutes. Initially it gives a fantastic piney aroma and a kind of gruit-like herbal bitterness. However, both aroma and flavour aren't lasting and greatly mellow during fermentation. 15 g/1L will add a nice touch complimenting kveik yeast esters, but won't be enough to bitter a hop-less beer.

Typically brew IPA'S and RIS.

My impression is that the heavier the wort the better results Voss kveik produces. My only decent kveik ales were very strong and heavily-junipered. Which, in fact, well corresponds with the intended use of the strain.
And all my Voss beers lower than 1.080 have been just meh.

 

[Miraculix]

Great! Now the most difficult part: defining how much you need. I found zero suggestions on that matter in even the most detailed books and blogs. They recommend "a medium-size branch" at best. Not knowing much of juniper branch grading in Scandinavian countryside, I needed to experiment. Dried juniper is less potent than fresh, so a dose visually roughly assessed as the dry equivalent to a "medium-sized branch" didn't add much flavour to my ales. So I experimented further, and now I use 15 g dried needles to 1 L of liquor, boiling them for 15 minutes. Initially it gives a fantastic piney aroma and a kind of gruit-like herbal bitterness. However, both aroma and flavour aren't lasting and greatly mellow during fermentation. 15 g/1L will add a nice touch complimenting kveik yeast esters, but won't be enough to bitter a hop-less beer.


My impression is that the heavier the wort the better results Voss kveik produces. My only decent kveik ales were very strong and heavily-junipered. Which, in fact, well corresponds with the intended use of the strain.
And all my Voss beers lower than 1.080 have been just meh.

Nice, what was the best amount of needles per litre for your stronger beers without hops?

 

[Protos]

I haven't brewed kveik ales without hops yet, but for my hop-less Sahti I used 20 g dried needles per Litre. The resulting bitterness was generally comparable to a weak Weizenbier, so I think around 10-15 IBUs.
With hops, the dreaded "vegetable twang" would surely come into play at such dosage, but with juniper I didn't notice it. Anyway, next time I better prepare the liquor at 15g/1L and add a load of dried needles at the lautering, as the desirable piney note was still not pronounced enough.

I think, the dosage would be entirely different if juniper was fresh. But fresh Juniperis communis grows here only high in the mountains, and I'm not such an eager fan of juniper-infused beers to climb the cool summits in search for the magic weed

I didn't like my Sahti at all. Not because of juniper bittering but because of using baking yeast (which is a strict requirement for the style).

 

[FillWholeWell]

I recently brewed a simple pilsner-based beer (not really a lager) using Kveik as an experiment. It fermented in three days in my garage at 95F in the daytime and 75F at night. I was amazed, it was very clear when bottled and the taste was totally clean (no off-flavors or smells), even my wife really enjoyed it.
The one watch-out for me, was that as it had fermented so quickly, there was not enough active yeast left to carbonate the bottles and my beer was quite flat. Not sure what to do about that next time, maybe add a small amount of a dry yeast pack to my bottling bucket....but how much ?

 

[hottpeper13]

I just kegged a 10% RIS and am going to add 5 oz of maple syrup and 3 grams of CBC yeast to each keg. I've done this in all of my barrel aged beers but the voss one was like crystal clear and the barrel took forever for the rinse water to run clear.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've got a kettle full of Mittlefrüh FWH and 100% UK base malt 1.090 1st runnings.

Smells wonderful!!!

 

[DBhomebrew]

In the fermenter, Lallemand Voss pitched dry at 93, temp control set at 95.

1.065 MO/Optic/GP blend
35IBU Mittlefrüh, 1oz FWH, 1.3oz 60m

Tastes great now. I'll keep y'all updated.

ETA: Pitched 2.5hrs ago, inch thick krausen!

 

[stealthfixr]

I've brewed with Lallemand Voss three times, and I don't think I will use it again.

I am an all-grain brewer with Spike conicals and a glycol chiller & heater, so stable temp control from 36F to 105F isn't a problem at all. Each Voss brew fermented aggressively and quickly at 85F and higher, but one almost stalled when started at the bottom of the temp range. This yeast likes it hot. Pressurization doesn't seem to make much difference in slowing it down or the results. Rehydration didn't seem to make much if any difference, so just pitching straight from the packet worked well.

Though crazy quick fermenters, each brew had a DMS-like component that would diminish with 4+ weeks after kegging, resulting in a ester-y English yeast flavor contribution. The DMS-like addition happened all three times, and I don't get DMS in my brews. To wait the 4+ weeks for the DMS-like component to drop out eliminated any benefit the quick fermentation provided. I get quick enough fermentations with 'normal' yeasts that are pitched from a healthy starter, and none of the downsides. That said, the Voss Xmas brew I did last Nov for the holidays turned out quite nice by later December.

I've also used Lutra and Hornindal, and neither of those had the same DMS-like issues, and I will use those again in the future. YMMV.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've brewed with Lallemand Voss three times, and I don't think I will use it again.

I am an all-grain brewer with Spike conicals and a glycol chiller & heater, so stable temp control from 36F to 105F isn't a problem at all. Each Voss brew fermented aggressively and quickly at 85F and higher, but one almost stalled when started at the bottom of the temp range. This yeast likes it hot. Pressurization doesn't seem to make much difference in slowing it down or the results. Rehydration didn't seem to make much if any difference, so just pitching straight from the packet worked well.

Though crazy quick fermenters, each brew had a DMS-like component that would diminish with 4+ weeks after kegging, resulting in a ester-y English yeast flavor contribution. The DMS-like addition happened all three times, and I don't get DMS in my brews. To wait the 4+ weeks for the DMS-like component to drop out eliminated any benefit the quick fermentation provided. I get quick enough fermentations with 'normal' yeasts that are pitched from a healthy starter, and none of the downsides. That said, the Voss Xmas brew I did last Nov for the holidays turned out quite nice by later December.

I've also used Lutra and Hornindal, and neither of those had the same DMS-like issues, and I will use those again in the future. YMMV.

What were the gravities of the three not-so-good batches? I imagine the Xmas brew was a bigger celebration beer?

 

[stealthfixr]

What were the gravities of the three not-so-good batches? I imagine the Xmas brew was a bigger celebration beer?

They were 1.071, 1.056 and 1.067 (which was the Xmas Ale).

To be clear, they all turned out okay once the DMS-like flavor dropped out, which did occur for all three after about 4-6 weeks. Strange, as I've never had that happen before in years of homebrewing, but it did seem consistent. I haven't tried a liquid Voss to see if it was a dry yeast problem or not.

 

[DBhomebrew]

In the fermenter, Lallemand Voss pitched dry at 93, temp control set at 95.

1.065 MO/Optic/GP blend
35IBU Mittlefrüh, 1oz FWH, 1.3oz 60m

Tastes great now. I'll keep y'all updated.

ETA: Pitched 2.5hrs ago, inch thick krausen!

36hrs post-pitch. 81.5% attenuation 1.065->1.012. Very, very slow airlock movement.

Clean, no off-flavors. Very apparent, though not too much so, orange aroma and flavor. Definitely in the category of pleasant.

Turned the heat off.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

36hrs post-pitch. 81.5% attenuation 1.065->1.012. Very, very slow airlock movement.

Nice. I brewed a batch of a Pale Ale ish beer on Saturday (2-Row + Oats + Munich / Cascade + Citra). I pitched a pack of Lallemand Voss and saw activity in a few hours, it was off like a rocket all day Sunday, and pretty calm by Monday. Set my temp controller to 85F, and it was reading 90F during peak fermentation.

I let it chill down to room temp overnight on Tuesday, dry hopped for 2 days, and now I am cold crashing. I hope to get it in the keg on Saturday or Sunday and for it to be ready by next Thursday for a gathering. It was 1.052, down to 1.009. The sample I tried today seemed like what I was aiming for with plenty of orange/citrus character.

 

[Beerstein]

I’ve used lalbrew Voss a dozen plus times. I’ve had it ferment as fast as 24 hours. I’ve Found the orange esthers are often covered up by hops if using in a hop forward beer. A couple of hard lessons: Voss eats the hop flavors for up to a week. I always wait a week before dry hopping. Also I’ve had cleaner ferments when using mfg recommended Fermaid K or slightly more.

 

[shoreman]

The one watch-out for me, was that as it had fermented so quickly, there was not enough active yeast left to carbonate the bottles and my beer was quite flat. Not sure what to do about that next time, maybe add a small amount of a dry yeast pack to my bottling bucket....but how much ?

I’ve been brewing with kveik for a couple years and always add champagne yeast at bottling - I actually keg condition. I had too many uncarbonated batches in the beginning.

 

[Heinz]

I've got a kettle full of Mittlefrüh FWH and 100% UK base malt 1.090 1st runnings.

Smells wonderful!!!

Will you post what final gravity it reached when it is ready? My chocolate porterish beer went from 1.090 to 1.030 (tempearture adjusted) and I used Mangrove Jacks m12 Kveik yeast which is said to be also of Voss variety.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Will you post what final gravity it reached when it is ready? My chocolate porterish beer went from 1.090 to 1.030 (tempearture adjusted) and I used Mangrove Jacks m12 Kveik yeast which is said to be also of Voss variety.

Will do, but my 1.090 was just the 1st runnings off the mash. Once the 2nd runnings from the sparge were mixed in, the OG was at 1.065. At 36hrs it was down to 1.012 with a little bit of activity still showing.

A Voss chocolate porter. Sounds interesting, like the orange chocolate my grandma always put out after dinner.

 

[spittiz]

I kegged a hazy IPA yesterday brewed with Lallemand Voss, fermented at 35c (95f). Hops Citra & Simcoe.

It was done within 24h of fermentation, I let it sit at 35c for an additional day, then I removed the heating and let it come to room temp over a day, then soft crash to 15c (59f) and dry hop for 24h.

Then cold crash 2 days until everything dropped. So it was 6 days in the fermenter in total. I haven't tasted it from the keg yet, might do that tomorrow, but the sample definitely had orange in the aroma and taste, and I thought it tasted pretty good. I can report back when I've had a proper taste of the more finished product.

Follow up on this, I didn't have a chance to taste it until yesterday, so this was after 5 days in the keg.

It's quite clean, slightly lacking in hop flavor but I'm not sure if that's the yeasts doing. There is a subtle orange and latex(?) flavor in the background that I'm fairly sure is from the yeast because I've never had that before, it's not unpleasant though. I compared it side by side to a (good) commercial Citra hazy IPA of same abv, the commercial one is better but not by a big margin, hop flavors "pop" a bit more and the mouthfeel is better but that could improve on the Voss beer when it's been conditioning for a longer time.

Compared to my other hazy IPA done with same grains and same hop schedule but with Citra & Mosaic (vs Citra & Simcoe in the Voss one), the Verdant version has more sweet tropical fruit and is softer in its flavors while the Voss version has more bright, slightly sharp citrus flavors and is more bitter. It should be noted though that the Verdant version has been in the keg for 30 days which most likely has "softened" it up a bit, but I don't think it has changed much from when it was the same age as the Voss version is now. The flavor difference is definitely partly because of the mosaic vs simcoe hops, but I'm also quite sure that the yeasts are accentuating them. I've done several batches with the Verdant yeast and always had these "soft tropical" flavors with it.

All in all I'm pleased with this Voss beer and will use the yeast again if I for some reason need to churn out a batch quickly.

Here are my own beers that I compared, left is Verdant yeast and right Voss yeast:

 

[oakbarn]

We brewed an "ESB" with Kviek Voss yesterday. One of our Brewers found the recipe and wanted to try it. WE made a 10 g batch and pitched a whole pack per 5 gals (according to the directions).

Pitched at 95 F.

I have my doubts but it took off fast

5 min after pitch:

10 Min after pitch:

 

[shoreman]

Just brewed a pale ale with all homegrown cascades following a russian river recipe. Hit it with Voss and some yeast nutrients since it’s only 4% ABV. Fermented at 95-100 in my garage. Hydro sample had the orange flavor and took it down to 1.008 (Iprefer dry beers) but could be from Cascades.

I’ve done a few beers with kveik but this is my first with Voss.

Will update once it is tapped.

 

[Beerstein]

I’ve over seven the kveik Voss often starts visible fermentation within two hours of pitching. I’ve also found soaking it in RO water for 15 minutes speeds this up.

 

[Falstaff]

Kveik will add orange. I LOVE this yeast because using it feels like easy mode for brewing. I like it in my stouts, especially because it adds something unique, sort of like chocolate covered fruit. I pitch a whole packet of M12 in mine, though, so it might be more restrained. Brew Saturday, pitch at 104, hold at 90, bottle on Wednesday, drink on Friday.

 

[BrewZer]

I used Imperial's Loki voss kveik in a SMaSH with just Breiss 2-row and 2 oz of Galaxy hops (the ones I got for renewing my AHA membership) with 1 oz at 30 mins and 1 oz at 5 mins left.

Pitched at 85 degrees, and the temperature never went much below that until day 3, when the airlock stopped bubbling. The FG sample (went from 1.060 to 1.011) after 7 days was very pale and the flavor was very much like a grapefruit Shofferhofer.

It will sit for another week and we'll bottle with a tad more than normal priming sugar (7/8 cup) since it looks like vosses tend to fall out of suspension quickly.

 

[Jloewe]

I brewed with lallemend kviek Voss yeast it was a total beast grain to glass in 6 days. I made an IPA with citra and Amarillo which both should taste like citrus but it has a distinctly orange kinda fake flavor. Did anyone else experience this I don’t think the flavor is the hops I’m not sure I’d use this yeast again.

I’ve used it a handful of times since I don’t have temp control and definitely had drinkable beer. It worked best in an IPA with orange though. In that it was great. In everything else it’s just ok. It always has a little bit of that orange flavor which isn’t bad. But it will always be there.

 

[Miraculix]

I’ve over seven the kveik Voss often starts visible fermentation within two hours of pitching. I’ve also found soaking it in RO water for 15 minutes speeds this up.

Depending on how low the mineral content of the ro water is, this will likely kill a portion of the yeast cells due to osmotic pressure. The cells just burst. Luckily, kveik needs only a very small cell count. But in general, it is a bad idea to rehydrate in ro or distilled water without the addition of salts and/or nutrients.