Volume of AG strike water?

[OpenSights]

For my first solo AG I decided on a bouble black I.I.P.A.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/double-black-imperial-black-ipa/

Go big or go home I guess... planned on brewing yesterday, but ended up with three jobs. Last night I started look into sparging and strike water. My mash tun is a 5 gallon igloo drink cooler. According to the calculator I found, for 17#s of grain my strike water should be 5.3 something gallons of 156F water. With only a five gallon total capacity in my tun, I played brew day safe and brewed a biab/extract, still a fun brew day.

Should I look into a bigger tun, or will sparging be sufficient for this recipe? $66 for the recipe, I’d hate to mess it up.

Any tips on a 90 minute boil vs. a 60 minute boil? I’m aware of evaporation concerns.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Rob2010SS]

You need a bigger mash tun or cut the recipe down on volume. Even with sparging and having a very thick mash of 1.1qts per pound of grain you would still need 6 gallons of space in your mash tun. Do you have your grains already milled and mixed up? If not you could recalculate the recipe for a little bit less volume.

Unless you want to buy my 10 gal cooler mash tun lol. (Selling my stuff for real, not a joke)

 

[OpenSights]

You need a bigger mash tun or cut the recipe down on volume. Even with sparging and having a very thick mash of 1.1qts per pound of grain you would still need 6 gallons of space in your mash tun. Do you have your grains already milled and mixed up? If not you could recalculate the recipe for a little bit less volume.

Unless you want to buy my 10 gal cooler mash tun lol. (Selling my stuff for real, not a joke)

I’d be interested in your tun, 48837, if reasonable shipping.

Had my LHBS mill the grains into one big bag, so it all or nothing!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I’d be interested in your tun, 48837, if reasonable shipping.

Had my LHBS mill the grains into one big bag, so it all or nothing!

Just over 4 hour drive. Not terrible. Pm me and we can discuss it if you're really interested.

In regards to your issue here, not sure how you can get around it without a bigger mash tun. Perhaps someone else will have an idea for you

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

If your just starting AG and looking for possible upgrade equipment just go BIAB. Get one big pot and do full volume brews and be done with it. Easy brewin with easy cleanup

 

[CascadesBrewer]

My mash tun is a 5 gallon igloo drink cooler.

Yeah...your mash tun should be around 1.5x your batch size (bigger for high gravity beers). For many years I used a 6.5 gal bucket for my lauter tun (mashed in a 7.5 gal enamel pot for a long time, then a 10 gal ss pot), but my lauter tun was my bottle neck. I could maybe get around 14 lbs of grain in there. Rather than upgrade my lauter tun, I switched over to BIAB and find my 10 gal pot supports a pretty hefty grain bill...more if I sparge.

My understanding is that the primary benefit of a 90 min vs 60 min boil is the improved efficiency from concentrating down the wort. I hear about reducing DMS, but I think that is mostly for lagers/6-row and it seems like it is not really needed with today's malts.

 

[McKnuckle]

My understanding is that the primary benefit of a 90 min vs 60 min boil is the improved efficiency from concentrating down the wort.

Just wanted to correct this: Evaporation has no impact on efficiency, good or bad. The volume/gravity equation is inversely proportional and linear.

Once you start boiling, the only thing impacting brewhouse efficiency is whether you leave any wort uncollected (absorbed in hops and trub, or left in the equipment).

 

[kh54s10]

Yes, bigger mash tun or smaller batches. You could split the grain in half and do two mashes. A really long brew day.

90 minutes is usually for Pilsner malt - to drive off DMS. It is less of a concern with today's malts. You could also use a long boil to raise the gravity of a beer = boiling off more water and concentrating the wort.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Just wanted to correct this: Evaporation has no impact on efficiency, good or bad. The volume/gravity equation is inversely proportional and linear.

The efficiency comes from the additional sparging...which increases the extraction of sugars from the grain...which leads to more volume that you have to boil down.

 

[RM-MN]

You need a bigger mash tun or cut the recipe down on volume. Even with sparging and having a very thick mash of 1.1qts per pound of grain you would still need 6 gallons of space in your mash tun. Do you have your grains already milled and mixed up? If not you could recalculate the recipe for a little bit less volume.

Your recipe is based on someone else's mash efficiency. You may or may not get the same OG as they did because you don't know your mash efficiency as this is your first batch. Mash efficiency is dependent on two things, crush and time. You can increase the efficiency by mashing longer if you have a poor crush but there are limitations on that too. Otherwise you crush the grains until they are near corn meal consistency and use the advantages of that to increase the efficiency and line the mash tun with a brew bag ala BIAB so you can separate the wort from the grains when the mash is over. If you want to try the first option, longer mash, and don't want to buy a new mash tun yet, do a smaller batch. The recipe scales fine and a 4 gallon batch will probably fit. That might be the answer to either method, just make the recipe smaller.

 

[Lefou]

Getting a higher gravity beer while using a smaller volume mash tun is very doable. You can always do the all grain portion, add DME for the extra points of gravity, then dilute after the boil in the primary.
This is how I calculate and manage a smaller 3 or 4 gallon boil on the stove for high gravity beers to get the proper numbers for a 5 gallon batch. You can do a low mash with grains to get a highly fermentable AG wort then the DME will add points and a bit of extra dextrin level for body.

 

[doug293cz]

...

My understanding is that the primary benefit of a 90 min vs 60 min boil is the improved efficiency from concentrating down the wort. I hear about reducing DMS, but I think that is mostly for lagers/6-row and it seems like it is not really needed with today's malts.

Concentrating the wort by boiling does not change the efficiency. The mash efficiency is set once all the wort is in the BK.

Just wanted to correct this: Evaporation has no impact on efficiency, good or bad. The volume/gravity equation is inversely proportional and linear.

Once you start boiling, the only thing impacting brewhouse efficiency is whether you leave any wort uncollected (absorbed in hops and trub, or left in the equipment).

This is correct.

The efficiency comes from the additional sparging...which increases the extraction of sugars from the grain...which leads to more volume that you have to boil down.

This is correct.

You get higher lauter efficiency, for any lauter process (no-sparge, batch sparge, fly sparge) if you start with more water. This is because using more water with the same amount of grain leads to more dilute wort, and the wort left behind in the grain contains less of the sugar created in the mash. Turns out that for a specific lauter process and grain absorption rate, the lauter efficiency depends only on the grain weight to pre-boil volume ratio. The efficacy of using more initial water, and boiling off more to achieve higher efficiency is not particularly high. If your boil off rate is 1 gal/hr, have a 12 lb grain bill, a traditional MLT, single batch sparge, and target 5.5 gal post boil, for a 1 hour boil your pre-boil volume will be 6.5 gal, your max lauter efficiency would be 84%, and your OG 1.065. If you went with a 90 min boil, your pre-boil volume would be 7.0 gal, your max lauter efficiency would be 85.5%, and your OG 1.066. The extra 30 min boil does not get you much. To check out other scenarios: use this simulator.

Brew on

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I think we are all on the same page now.

My main point was that I am not aware of any real benefits of a 90 minute boil over a 60 minute boil, yet I do see recipes often enough (especially homebrew recipes from commercial breweries) that state a 90 minute boil. The only benefit I see is a big beer where you need more mash/sparge water to extract sugar from the grains...though I would be tempted to throw in more grain than extend my boil by 30 minutes, but maybe a longer boil make sense for 1.120+ beers. The extra IBU extraction is minimal (and often recipes call for 60 min hop addition anyway). DMS does not seem to be a real issue.

On this topic...I find that I can adjust the intensity of my propane burner to vary my boil off rate from 1.0 gal/hr to 1.5 gal/hr. The 1.0 rate is a pretty decent boil with the lid off, so that is what I usually aim for unless I end up with more pre-boil volume than planned.

 

[RM-MN]

My main point was that I am not aware of any real benefits of a 90 minute boil over a 60 minute boil, yet I do see recipes often enough (especially homebrew recipes from commercial breweries) that state a 90 minute boil. The only benefit I see is a big beer where you need more mash/sparge water to extract sugar from the grains...though I would be tempted to throw in more grain than extend my boil by 30 minutes, but maybe a longer boil make sense for 1.120+ beers. The extra IBU extraction is minimal (and often recipes call for 60 min hop addition anyway). DMS does not seem to be a real issue.

Boiling longer can cause color and some flavor changes. That may be why the 90 boil is in the recipe. Then again, it may just be that the brewer forgot the beer and boiled it for 90 minutes when 60 is what was meant.

 

[OpenSights]

I’m glad I started this thread! So much good info and debate!

I’m considering on converting an ancient barrel keggel I have into a mash tun.

The brew I made yesterday called for a 20 minute soak in 3 gallons. I just used my kettle and a bag. The lowest possible temp on my big burner would raise the temp of the tun water too high. I do have a turkey fryer that I started out with I’m thinking about modifying to keep the keggel mash tun at the right temperature... going to take some tweaking.

Thanks for all the advice and knowledge!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I’m considering on converting an ancient barrel keggel I have into a mash tun.

What is your boil kettle size? I am a recent BIAB convert doing some 5 gal batches in my 10 gal pot (outside, propane burner) and 1 and 2.5 gal batches in a 5 gal pot (inside, gas stove). I was at the point where I was considering upgrading my mash/lauter/sparge equipment (mash in a pot, transfer to a 6.5 gal bucket with a false bottom and I poured sparge water over the top of the grains). I read about BIAB and ask some of my homebrewer friends. A guy that makes great beer said he switched to BIAB a few years ago so I gave that a try. If you are going for 10+ gal batches, a 3 vessel system might work better, but for 5 gal or less, BIAB seems like a great fit.

Another option for you might be to split your grains in half and brew two 2.5 gal batches. 2 smaller batches might be a great learning experience. I see a lot of appeal in doing 2.5 gal batches vs a full 5 gal. Once I get another 2.5 gal keg or two, I plan on doing more 2.5 gal batches myself...but if you are bottling then any size batch works.

 

[OpenSights]

Attended my clubs board meeting tonight. Picked up the small position on the board of membership. Also took the position of brewmaster for spring “firebrew”, 200 gallon batch of brew. We decided on a double bock.

Also snagged the club’s 10 gallon mash tun for my black I.I.P.A! Ice storm heading our way tonight, 1/4-1/2” of ice... so when work gets called off, it’ll be a perfect brew day!

 

[OpenSights]

What is your boil kettle size? I am a recent BIAB convert doing some 5 gal batches in my 10 gal pot (outside, propane burner) and 1 and 2.5 gal batches in a 5 gal pot (inside, gas stove). I was at the point where I was considering upgrading my mash/lauter/sparge equipment (mash in a pot, transfer to a 6.5 gal bucket with a false bottom and I poured sparge water over the top of the grains). I read about BIAB and ask some of my homebrewer friends. A guy that makes great beer said he switched to BIAB a few years ago so I gave that a try. If you are going for 10+ gal batches, a 3 vessel system might work better, but for 5 gal or less, BIAB seems like a great fit.

Another option for you might be to split your grains in half and brew two 2.5 gal batches. 2 smaller batches might be a great learning experience. I see a lot of appeal in doing 2.5 gal batches vs a full 5 gal. Once I get another 2.5 gal keg or two, I plan on doing more 2.5 gal batches myself...but if you are bottling then any size batch works.

Pics of last firebrew... renamed “ice brew because of the ice storm...

My biggest kettle is about 7 gallons, love it! But I have an old school barrel style sanke convereted into a keggel.

 

[OpenSights]

Ice day today! Brew day is on! I have the club’s 10 gallon tun soaking with bleach, last person to use it left the lid on before drying. Bleach first, then pbw. Probably going to pull the false bottom out and detail it. $66 for grains, hops and yeast... no room for error! This will be my very first solo AG batch, 90 minute boil. Going to be a long day. 5.31 gallons of strike water, now I have to calculate sparge, and boil off so I can get exactly 5 gallons.

 

[BigTerp]

Just FYI, but with my 10 gallon Igloo cooler mash tun the absolute max I can do at 1.12 quarts per # of grain is 26#'s. This is for an 11 gallon batch of a Two Hearted Ale clone. This STUFFS my tun to the max, but I still get great efficiency at around 75%-80% with my setup (aforementioned tun, keggle and AHS crush) and this equates to about 7% ABV on a 11 gallon batch. At 1.25 quarts per # of grain I can fit 23#'s of grain. This equates to about 6.8% ABV on an 11 gallon batch. Obviously the ABV estimates depend on your efficiency, yeast, and FG so YMMV. Just some numbers for you to get started with since I see you ended up using the 10 gallon Igloo cooler as a mash tun.

If you're just getting started with all grain, I'd highly suggest keeping good notes. I use Beersmith and keep detailed notes throughout my brewday, during fermentation, etc. Makes life easier with subsequent batches and re-creating a previous batch. I haven't brewed for nearly 2 years following the birth of my son and am now getting back into it. Making a batch of my wife's favorite (Belgian wheat) this weekend, and reverting back to my notes from previous brewdays is making the transition back into things MUCH easier.

 

[BigTerp]

Also, don't stress on sanitizing your tun. Just a good scrub with water and a sponge to get all off the old spent grains out. Any nasties that may be in your tun will be killed with the boil. Obviously you don't want it nasty, but you don't need to sanitize it like you do with stuff post boil. I've bleached my tun once over the course of probably 100 batches. This was only because I didn't dry it good and stored it with the lid on. It got moldy.

 

[OpenSights]

Over did it a bit... about 6 gallons. I’m cool with it. Going to lager it.