Vienna lager/ale pseudo lager?

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NickThoR

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One of my favorite commercial beers is dos equis amber, so i was thinking i would try a 1.5 gallon batch of revvy's vienna lager. However I have never done a lager i have no real lagering equipment so i was thinking of pitching some washed yeast from a batch of wheat bear I have going right now that is using US-05.

I plan on fermenting at the cooler end of the strain and try to get a clean a flavor as i could, then maybe secondary in the fridge? Would that help in a pseudo lager situation?

(Then I would probably 'keg' in a 3 liter with a carbonator cap because my single lonely keg will be full of wheat beer)

Any suggestions on how to get closer to a lager without having temp control other than a standard fridge?
 

Yooper

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I think S05 is not a great choice for a "clean" pseudo lager at cooler temps. S05 gets sort of estery at below 65 degrees, with a peach note, and it gets estery above about 68-70 degrees is well.

It really depends on what temperatures you can maintain, but nottingham is good from 57-62 or so, and is very lager-like and crisp. Californa lager yeast, Wyeast 2112, is probably the best bet for making a lager-like beer in the 60s.
 

eulipion2

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Mangrove Jack's M44 US West Coast Ale. It's a dry version of Rogue's Pacman strain, ferment down around 60 for a nice clean lager-ish finish. I did a Vienna with it that turned out very nice.
 

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Not sure how it would work with the Vienna style but look into Kolsch Yeast! It ferments like an ale at 60F and is much cleaner than most ale yeasts once you cold crash it. I suspect it is more "Lager-ish" than ale yeast
 

Sarge

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A few years back I did a 2.5 gallon batch of Revvy's Vienna using a swamp cooler setup. By adding several ice bottles twice a day and keeping the cooler covered with a sleeping bag I was able to maintain 48 degrees. If I had thought about it I could have fit my carboy in my ice chest and closed the lid. That could be an easy way to actually ferment around 50 degrees.
The beer turned out really good. Score very well in several competitions and snagged a 3rd in one of them.

Good luck to ya. :mug:

Any suggestions on how to get closer to a lager without having temp control other than a standard fridge?
 
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NickThoR

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the Mangrove Jack's M44 US West Coast Ale seems intriguing.... on rebel brewers website the usage notes say :

Ales with original gravity over 1.050, use 2 packs per 6 gallons. Lagers that will be fermented below 57°F, use 2 packs per 6 gallons.

I think this strand might be what ill use......
 
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NickThoR

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So how about this - pitch the M44, use a swamp cooler and try to keep it around 60 or a bit lower for two weeks, then drop the temp over a few days by adding more ice, cold crash, rack, and secondary in the fridge for a week or two, then keg.
 

HopheadNJ

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Mangrove Jack's M44 US West Coast Ale. It's a dry version of Rogue's Pacman strain, ferment down around 60 for a nice clean lager-ish finish. I did a Vienna with it that turned out very nice.
I recently brewed an all amarillo pale with M44 and I've found there is a yeast profile that I don't really love. It seems to have some diacetyl to it - I pulled this off the yeast after ~14days in the primary which I do successfully often with Chico strains, I'm guessing this could use more time to clean up.
 

botigol

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Another way of handling this:

http://byo.com/equipment/item/1564-vienna-lager-in-exile

About half-way down the page it talks about using lager yeast at ale temperatures. This is one of the articles that Revvy referenced in the same thread as his recipe:

"If you can’t maintain lager temperatures, you can still make a Vienna lager. A little-known fact about lager yeasts is that they can be used at ale temperatures. Your beer will be more estery than a standard lager, but will still taste like lager beer. Many times homebrewers who wish to replicate a lager beer at ale temperatures are told to use a clean ale strain (or a “steam” beer strain) of yeast. However, a clean ale does not really taste like a lager. A “dirty” lager, however, will still taste lager-like — it will just have more yeast-derived aroma."
 

eulipion2

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I recently brewed an all amarillo pale with M44 and I've found there is a yeast profile that I don't really love. It seems to have some diacetyl to it - I pulled this off the yeast after ~14days in the primary which I do successfully often with Chico strains, I'm guessing this could use more time to clean up.
I noticed a hint of diacetyl right when I kegged, but after letting it condition for a week, letting it drop clear, and getting all the settled yeast out it was nowhere to be found. Also I usually primary all my ales for at least 3 weeks before packaging.
 

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Avoid Panama Jack's yeast...it's sh!te yeast. Every. Single. Beer I've brewed with their yeast has under attenuated.
 

eulipion2

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Avoid Panama Jack's yeast...it's sh!te yeast. Every. Single. Beer I've brewed with their yeast has under attenuated.

I've used four of their yeasts. Two hit the mark perfectly (Cider, Newcastle), one over-attenuated (US West Coast), and only one under-attenuated (Workhorse), but that brew day had other problems, and still tastes great.

Unless there really is a Panama Jack yeast and not Mangrove Jack...
 

beersk

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No, it's Mangrove. Was just kidding because it's a silly name to begin with. I'm surprised to read other people have beers over attenuating with those yeasts. I don't know what it is...they just won't finish out. Pure o2, water adjustments to proper pH ranges, mashing in the low 150's, rehydrating yeast, repitching the yeast...none of it worked for me.
 

eulipion2

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Pure o2, water adjustments to proper pH ranges, mashing in the low 150's, rehydrating yeast, repitching the yeast...none of it worked for me.
:off: That's weird. I shake to aerate, don't adjust my water, mash mid 150's, and pitch dry onto the wort. Maybe your rehydrating water is too hot? Are you controlling your fermentation temperature or letting it free rise to wherever the yeast take it?
 

beersk

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:off: That's weird. I shake to aerate, don't adjust my water, mash mid 150's, and pitch dry onto the wort. Maybe your rehydrating water is too hot? Are you controlling your fermentation temperature or letting it free rise to wherever the yeast take it?
Absolutely. Doing it all. Just haven't had luck with that yeast. It seems like from what I read about their yeast that people are either having success or not (like me). It's pretty frustrating though and I've moved on.
I even had a half batch of hefe recently that I pitched a pack of the Mangrove hefe yeast in, not rehydrated, aerated with pure o2 for 30 seconds. Finished high, like 1.018. Trying to decide whether to even bottle it. That's just way too high for a hefe. Ugh.
 

badlee

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Zombie alert!
Did you end up brewing this? What yeast fid you go with and how was the drinking of it?
 
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