Very high efficiency

[bransona]

Hi all,
I just opened my first bottle of homebrew, and it is BANGIN', so I wanted to lead off with a huge "Than you" to everyone in the HBT community. Furthermore, I brewed my third batch tonight (first time homemaking the recipe, all grain BIAB). I had predicted it (via brewersfriend) to come out around 1.062 OG, estimating a 75% efficiency rate. Honestly, I thought this was high for my simple little system. However, after brewing tonight, I've come to find it's MUCH better than that. I wound up with a larger volume than expected of wort that hit 1.073 OG! I squeeze/rinse my bag when I brew, but holy cow, this seems really high. I even thought my mash temp was kinda low (struck it low so it rode at about 148 for an hour), but hey, no point in fixing what isn't broken. Anyone know what could be contributing to this high efficiency? My grains are double milled and the bag is a very fine mesh, but I still thought the 75% was a high estimate.

Thanks again, everyone. You guys rock

 

[Kent88]

Glad your first brew went so well. It always helps when that one works. :rockin:

I don't know your procedure, and I hate to rain on the parade, but if you didn't treat/acidify the mash/sparge water you *might* have also extracted some stuff you didn't want. If you have a refractometer, next time keep an eye on what kind of gravity you get with your sparges, stop when you hit 1.011

 

[beerkench]

Did you get the volume you had estimated?

 

[Bellybuster]

Glad your first brew went so well. It always helps when that one works. :rockin:

I don't know your procedure, and I hate to rain on the parade, but if you didn't treat/acidify the mash/sparge water you *might* have also extracted some stuff you didn't want. If you have a refractometer, next time keep an eye on what kind of gravity you get with your sparges, stop when you hit 1.011

And this came from where??



To the OP, 11 points and an increase in volume? I'd would suggest instead of an increase in efficiency you may have experienced an increase in the gravitational pull of the Earth at the very moment you measured your grain.
Kidding around of course but that does sound more like a measuring error

 

[cilestiok]

Glad your first brew went so well. It always helps when that one works. :rockin:

I don't know your procedure, and I hate to rain on the parade, but if you didn't treat/acidify the mash/sparge water you *might* have also extracted some stuff you didn't want. If you have a refractometer, next time keep an eye on what kind of gravity you get with your sparges, stop when you hit 1.011

If this were the case the volume would increase and gravity would decrease.

OP, by chance is this a darker beer than your first two batches?

 

[bransona]

This is about on par with my last one (also a porter). Volume was more than I expected. It came from the brewersfriend recipe calculator, so there's that. I haven't gotten around to water specs yet as that's a little more advanced than I'm ready for. The tap is delicious though, if that amounts to anything.

 

[Calder]

Recipe calculated 1.062 with a 75% efficiency. 1.073 would be closer to 90% efficiency. Not impossible, but extremely unlikely.

If your gravity readings are correct, then something else may have happened: Incorrect volume, you had more grain than you thought, Missing ingredient in the calculator, or something else.

I usually get low 80s with my batch sparge set-up. Occasionally I've had 90%, and every time I do, I go looking for what the cause was. In one instance it was an extra lb of grain in the mash. Sometimes it is real.

 

[Bellybuster]

depending on the volume increase his efficiency will be above 100%.....impossible. Measuring errors somewhere

 

[Kent88]

@Bellybuster & @cilestiok I assume you were referring to the segment of my post: "you *might* have also extracted some stuff you didn't want"

I have not experienced it myself (which is why I emphasized the "*might*" and added the condition of the brewer not treating their water) but I've heard from sources I believe to be reliable that if one oversparges without treating their water to acidify it, it can extract tannins and produce off flavors. And if that wasn't the case, why doesn't everyone just sparge until they hit a minimum of 85% and boil until they hit target volume. As this person is only on their 3rd brew, I assumed that he or she probably didn't treat their water (perhaps a dangerous assumption, but I don't have a lot of data).

If I am wrong, than I believe it is a fairly common misconception, and I'd love to see some examples that refute this. It would help my efficiency greatly, and I'm always looking to improve my brewing methods.

 

[cilestiok]

@Bellybuster & @cilestiok I assume you were referring to the segment of my post: "you *might* have also extracted some stuff you didn't want"

I have not experienced it myself (which is why I emphasized the "*might*" and added the condition of the brewer not treating their water) but I've heard from sources I believe to be reliable that if one oversparges without treating their water to acidify it, it can extract tannins and produce off flavors. And if that wasn't the case, why doesn't everyone just sparge until they hit a minimum of 85% and boil until they hit target volume. As this person is only on their 3rd brew, I assumed that he or she probably didn't treat their water (perhaps a dangerous assumption, but I don't have a lot of data).

If I am wrong, than I believe it is a fairly common misconception, and I'd love to see some examples that refute this. It would help my efficiency greatly, and I'm always looking to improve my brewing methods.

My reply was merely to state that as you approach 1.010 you're diluting the wort, not extracting anything that will up the gravity. He has additional volume and additional gravity than his prediction. Tannin extraction from oversparging will result in higher volume but lower gravity than the prediction.

If this is not what you were talking about don't mind me. I merely made my assumption based on your reference to acidification of sparge water.

 

[Bellybuster]

he did BIAB , very little sparging if any. Although he does mention "rinsing" the grains

 

[bransona]

I brew in a sheer curtain, squeeze the HELL out of it, rinse (which, in my mind, is like my "sparging" but for BIAB), and squeeze again to really get everything out of the grains that I can. I'm certain about the grain measurements. The grains were very fine, including the oats (instant oats because why not). I may be RIGHT at the volume, but I honestly believe that I'm over. It's bare-minimum 1.5 gallons, and we used 3.5lbs of grain in total. No sugars or DME or anything. I'm also fairly certain about the gravity reading. I measured it within 1 degree of my hydro's calibrated temp, and I read at the ictus (at the center it read more like 1.076, like you would expect). Guys, I think I brewed at the far end of a wormhole that steals other people's sugars.

 

[cilestiok]

I brew in a sheer curtain, squeeze the HELL out of it, rinse (which, in my mind, is like my "sparging" but for BIAB), and squeeze again to really get everything out of the grains that I can. I'm certain about the grain measurements. The grains were very fine, including the oats (instant oats because why not). I may be RIGHT at the volume, but I honestly believe that I'm over. It's bare-minimum 1.5 gallons, and we used 3.5lbs of grain in total. No sugars or DME or anything. I'm also fairly certain about the gravity reading. I measured it within 1 degree of my hydro's calibrated temp, and I read at the ictus (at the center it read more like 1.076, like you would expect). Guys, I think I brewed at the far end of a wormhole that steals other people's sugars.

Crush was the same or finer than last time?

 

[doug293cz]

I brew in a sheer curtain, squeeze the HELL out of it, rinse (which, in my mind, is like my "sparging" but for BIAB), and squeeze again to really get everything out of the grains that I can. I'm certain about the grain measurements. The grains were very fine, including the oats (instant oats because why not). I may be RIGHT at the volume, but I honestly believe that I'm over. It's bare-minimum 1.5 gallons, and we used 3.5lbs of grain in total. No sugars or DME or anything. I'm also fairly certain about the gravity reading. I measured it within 1 degree of my hydro's calibrated temp, and I read at the ictus (at the center it read more like 1.076, like you would expect). Guys, I think I brewed at the far end of a wormhole that steals other people's sugars.

Rinsing the grain is not "like" sparging, it IS sparging.

Given the description of your process, your lauter efficiency is probably in the 91% - 92% range. Combine that with a conversion efficiency of ~98%, and you have a mash efficiency of 90% - 91%. That would give you an OG of 1.073 for 1.5 gal of wort made with 3.5 lbs of grain. Excellent and entirely plausible results.

Brew on

 

[bransona]

Thanks, Doug! Here's hoping tomorrow's DIPA goes the same way!

 

[doug293cz]

The DIPA should come out a little less efficient if it is targeted for a higher gravity. More grain means more wort absorbed by the grain (at a constant vol/wt absorption rate, i.e. the same degree of squeezing.) Here's an example chart for lager batch sizes, but the principle stays the same. The curves are for 5.5 gal to the fermenter & 6.7 gal pre-boil.



Brew on

 

[bransona]

That's an awesome graphic, man. I'm glad my LHBS guy advised me to sparge, although he advised against squeezing. I just got some gloves and sucked it up It's actually the same amount of grains, but it's 3lbs 2-row pale and a half pound of crystal 30, plus 6oz of cane sugar. All going under 1oz of equinox hops (i have 4 ounces, so i want to do a single-hop and explore its flavors a little).

 

[doug293cz]

Good call on squeezing. Lots of misinformation about squeezing causing tannin extraction out there (it doesn't.)

Brew on