Efficiency for higher gravity

[VikeMan]

I’ve honed my BIAB process as much as I can. BIAB is known for lower efficiencies so I just plan for it and move on . The beauty of this hobby is we have choices.

BIAB is/was known for lower mash efficiencies because as originally envisioned (and still practiced by many/most) it's a no-sparge process. A no-sparge process will have (all else being equal) lower mash efficiencies than batch or fly sparge processes, because lauter efficiency is lower. But mash length has nothing to do with lauter efficiency. Mash length can affect conversion efficiency (the other component of mash efficiency), if it's too short. But incomplete conversion should never be a goal. Short mashes (or long) can be an effective control knob to influence fermentability, but mash length should never be chosen to target an incomplete conversion. If you're happy with the spreadsheet, that's cool. But if it behaves the way you say, it's based on a flawed premise.

ETA: Regarding/clarifying why it's based on a flawed premise...
It's entirely possible to get complete conversion (with a reasonable process) in a 45 minute mash. Extending the mash will not increase conversion. So if brewing software gives two different gravity predictions based on 45 minutes and something longer than 45 minutes, that's a flaw.

 

[mggray87]

Here goes nothing. Measuring 12.41g in spike solo for the day. Let's gooo!

 

[DuncB]

Here goes nothing. Measuring 12.41g in spike solo for the day. Let's gooo!

Is that a volume of water or the world's tiniest malt bill?
12.41g is less than half an ounce.

 

[user 246304]

Great thoughts here, just wish my brain worked well enough to pencil it out. I get it in concept. Actually used to do a 90 minute runoff on my 12 gallon system and so far on this 5 gallon, Igloo system, about 45 minutes. I typically runoff 7.44 gallons, 90 minute boil at 1.1 g/hr boiloff, with 5 gallons net into fermenter with cooling and system losses. I'm hitting target gravities spot on.

I've really been wanting to dive into Ron Pattinson's world on some big brews, including 135 min. boils, and this seems a perfect opportunity. Just need to wend my way through the calculations. Appreciate the thread and the contributions.

 

[mggray87]

Is gypsum sold at a local grocery store? Where can I get it. Noticed I don't have it.

Nevermind it's calcium sulfate. CaSO4 x 2H2O. That I have. Different name lol

Dang that's a lot of malt/grain. Phew. Warming up the mash temp

 

[mggray87]

Holy it's full. Maxed out! Sitting so carefully every 15 min while it circulates and sprays on top. Eeeek!

 

[mggray87]

2. Hour boil started. Finished mash. Beersmith said 1.061 and 10.79g preboil. After squeezing my basket with press plate. I'm at 1.062 @ 10.50-10.55g preboil

Mash ph was 5.40-5.44 at the end of 60 min

 

[JAReeves]

It's too late for my $0.02 on this because you have already done it, but with really big malt bills, I normally mash overnight and let the enzymes go until they're pooped out. An amazing RIS and Wheat Wine both came out of this method.

Also, if you choose to use a separate MT for big beers, you can do multiple batch sparges to wash out the sugars in the grain; but then you need a longer boil to bring the volume down. For example, after the 1st & 2nd runnings were boiling away in the BK, I added the 3rd runnings once the volume was reduced enough to let them fit. It's a long brew day, but it's one of the best Barley Wines I have made. The kettle caramelization was amazing.

 

[mggray87]

It's too late for my $0.02 on this because you have already done it, but with really big malt bills, I normally mash overnight and let the enzymes go until they're pooped out. An amazing RIS and Wheat Wine both came out of this method.

Also, if you choose to use a separate MT for big beers, you can do multiple batch sparges to wash out the sugars in the grain; but then you need a longer boil to bring the volume down. For example, after the 1st & 2nd runnings were boiling away in the BK, I added the 3rd runnings once the volume was reduced enough to let them fit. It's a long brew day, but it's one of the best Barley Wines I have made. The kettle caramelization was amazing.

Starting OG. 1.100. Recipe called for 1.104. But mash efficiency was 72.3%. I actually had a little more batch volume than I was suppose too. I'd say that's because I started preboil with a little more after I pressed all the liquid out.

That being said I'd say it's a success. Oxygenated it. Gonna re oxygenate it again tomorrow 14-18 hours later. Just pitched.

Just scraped the vanilla beans and chopped em up. Now roasting my nibs at 275* for 12 min and going into my dark rum for 14 days!

 

[tracer bullet]

Starting OG. 1.100. Recipe called for 1.104. But mash efficiency was 72.3%. I actually had a little more batch volume than I was suppose too. I'd say that's because I started preboil with a little more after I pressed all the liquid out.

You might know already, but that's basically called nailing it. Nice job.

 

[mggray87]

Thanks. I'm definitely happy with the way it came out. Not sure why I had a little more wort than calculated. But I can live with it.

I'm second guessing my organic vanilla beans they are small. I feel like I'm gonna need 4 of these suckers. To equal to 2 regular ones lol

 

[DuncB]

Partigyle is the missing word from earlier, 2nd runnings for a mild works well.
That mash was on the brim which shows a good estimate.

 

[tracer bullet]

Thanks. I'm definitely happy with the way it came out. Not sure why I had a little more wort than calculated. But I can live with it.

Might have squeezed / let it drain a little more than your calculator expected. It works, you can just boil a few minutes longer. It's rarely perfect unless you've got a method you use time and again and a recipe you copy each time as well, at least regarding pounds of grain.

Depending on your calculator you might be able to adjust how much water is left behind in the grain. But keep in mind it depends how much grain you have, bigger grain bills being harder to squeeze, it won't be one-size-fits-all.

I'm assuming you used a calculator of course.

 

[mggray87]

Might have squeezed / let it drain a little more than your calculator expected. It works, you can just boil a few minutes longer. It's rarely perfect unless you've got a method you use time and again and a recipe you copy each time as well, at least regarding pounds of grain.

Depending on your calculator you might be able to adjust how much water is left behind in the grain. But keep in mind it depends how much grain you have, bigger grain bills being harder to squeeze, it won't be one-size-fits-all.

I'm assuming you used a calculator of course.

Beersmith.


Just woke up and was going to burst more O2 into it but it's already bubbling out the blowoff. So I guess that's a no go anymore.

@day_trippr do the nibs soak and absorb the rum. I barely had them covered and now it's like it evaporated some even though mason jar and air tight lid. Might need to add more rum

 

[day_trippr]

I believe it's a combination of time for the booze to fully wet all the nib bits, and actual absorption. I always just cover the nibs 'n' beans at first, and the next day I always have to add a bit to re-cover everything...

Cheers!

 

[mggray87]

I believe it's a combination of time for the booze to fully wet all the nib bits, and actual absorption. I always just cover the nibs 'n' beans at first, and the next day I always have to add a bit to re-cover everything...

Cheers!

Exactly what I just did! Thanks. I shake it Everytime I walk by it and also open to smell it. So far smells like dark rum lol.

 

[mggray87]

So far there is no sign of it slowing down!

 

[dmtaylor]

Wow that's a fast fermentation. What yeast strain did you use?

 

[mggray87]

Wow that's a fast fermentation. What yeast strain did you use?

Dry s-04 per the recipe

It was going crazy 11 hours after pitching. I didn't even get a chance to dose second batch of pure O2 15 hours after pitch

Right now: est 1.024

 

[DuncB]

Expect an element of yeast barm affecting this reading for accuracy but not trend.

 

[mggray87]

Expect an element of yeast barm affecting this reading for accuracy but not trend.

I was hoping it finished at 1.025ish. So hopefully it's slightly off do to the foam. Chocolate stout. We don't want it super dry

Bubbles definitely slowed down from yesterday's vigorous fermentation so it's slowing down

 

[mggray87]

Holy moly. @day_trippr this gonna be 4oz and I'm gonna be drunk from alc% haha

 

[doug293cz]

Holy moly. @day_trippr this gonna be 4oz and I'm gonna be drunk from alc% haha

Never assume a tilt type hydrometer reading is accurate. They should only be trusted for showing trends, and when fermentation is finished. Use a hydrometer to get an accurate FG.

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

Interesting. Definitely confirm with a hydro or even refract, as I don't recall ever having my FG drop into the teens...

Cheers!

 

[mggray87]

Never assume a tilt type hydrometer reading is accurate. They should only be trusted for showing trends, and when fermentation is finished. Use a hydrometer to get an accurate FG.

Brew on

Yea I have my easydens but I won't even test it until it's been a full 7 days.

 

[doug293cz]

Yea I have my easydens but I won't even test it until it's been a full 7 days.

I wouldn't test until the in vessel hydrometer indicated end of fermentation either.

Brew on

 

[hotbeer]

When I didn't have a raptPill, I didn't test until the beer is beginning to clear. By then fermentation has long since been finished. Even with a raptPill I don't test until then with a real hydrometer. However if you intend to cold crash, you probably should get a sample to test the SG when anything else indicates that fermentation might be finished.

 

[day_trippr]

Because "Hazies Hate Oxygen" I have taken to not opening fermentors until it's time for dry hopping, so I don't have any idea how the yeast are doing except by how much CO2 is bubbling out the end of my keg purging setup. I have a brew I started last Wednesday (with 1318) that is still blowing bubbles every 15 seconds or so, and the batch I pitched Sunday (with BRY-97) which really just hit its stride early this morning (Chico related strains are just lazy. I blame California Living )

I won't know how they did until it's time to dry hop them when I will take the first (and likely only) gravity samples. If someone ever comes up with a "Pill" that a 6.5g Italian glass carboy can choke down, I may get one

Cheers!

 

[mggray87]

Because "Hazies Hate Oxygen" I have taken to not opening fermentors until it's time for dry hopping, so I don't have any idea how the yeast are doing except by how much CO2 is bubbling out the end of my keg purging setup. I have a brew I started last Wednesday (with 1318) that is still blowing bubbles every 15 seconds or so, and the batch I pitched Sunday (with BRY-97) which really just hit its stride early this morning (Chico related strains are just lazy. I blame California Living )

I won't know how they did until it's time to dry hop them when I will take the first (and likely only) gravity samples. If someone ever comes up with a "Pill" that a 6.5g Italian glass carboy can choke down, I may get one

Cheers!

How long will it take for yeast to drop so I can drop trub/yeast out port. I'm used to cold crashing. It's easy. But since stout isn't a big carbonation. I have it fermenting under 8psi. So 1.3 for carbing. I'm thinking of cold crashing to dump everything then letting it slowly rise back up to 60 or so so I can then dry hop the nibs/vanilla/rum tincture.or just leave it at 68 for 2 weeks and hope it compacts so I can use the dump port. I poured some out the unitank port just to see a visual. It's thickkkkk. Full of yeast still. I put it in fridge to see if it would separate and barely. Check it out. But smells good.

I've cold crashed every single batch. So I never done it naturally so I have no idea how long it will take to compact down and clear so I can dump it

im getting excited

 

[day_trippr]

Ooogy!

I do a full 14 days in primary then rack to a fresh carboy with the marinated nibs and beans and dark rum already tossed in. Give it a gentle swirling to mix, then I leave it for a full week at our cellar temperature (right around 60°F) to settle before kegging. And the primary does compact. It's the cocoa that takes longest to drop and that makes for a thick pudding on the bottom of fermentor to rack above...

Cheers!