Versatile German Lager yeast for Bock, Doppelbock, Oktoberfest

[Brewmex41]

I'm trying to find a good yeast that would do well in the above mentioned lager styles.

I want to brew a bock and once its done fermenting brew a dopplebock and pitch straight onto the yeast cake.
I'd also like to do oktoberfests with the same yeast. I'm a sucker for malty German and bavarian lagers.

I'll build a yeast starter that's much larger than I need, cold crash and decant the liquid. Then save the excess yeast for future yeast starters. Much easier than washing yeast after fermentation.

I'm looking at wpl920 old bavarian lager for its high alcohol tolerance. There's also wpl833 German bock lager, but the website says the alcohol tolerance is med-high and I think I want the doppelbock to finish pretty high, some where in the 10-12% range. I'm not sure what med-high is supposed to mean exactly.
These types of beers I want to be malt bombs with noticeable malt sweetness. If anyone has some experience with these yeasts/styles and can point me in the right direction that would be awesome!

Also, would this same yeast be alright for a Baltic porter? I have a feeling it would be, but I'm unfamiliar with most yeasts outside of American ale yeasts.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

I like the WLP 833??i believe. German bock yeast I use it in my bock's and marzen's. I've repitched in four various recipes and it's been very clean tasting in all of them.


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[CadillacAndy]

I like the WLP 833??i believe. German bock yeast I use it in my bock's and marzen's. I've repitched in four various recipes and it's been very clean tasting in all of them.


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I second WLP833. It is the strain I use for all of my lagers. I've tried WLP830, WLP838 and WLP840 and came back to WLP833. I brew everything from Helles and light American lagers to Bocks, Oktoberfests and Baltic Porters with it.

I usually start it at 48F and keep it there until fermentation starts to slow, then I ramp it up to 52F and then finish it off with a diacetyl rest at 60-65F or so.

 

[Denny]

I've made all of those using WY2206 with great results.

 

[DrBrew809]

Check up this...
Here's a good chart with all yeast types.

http://byo.com/resources/yeast

 

[BigFloyd]

It's hard to go wrong with either WY2124 or WLP833.

 

[adrock430]

W-34/70 for me, its a dry yeast, so you don't have to deal with the massive starter. Two packs for a bock would be fine. I believe the WLP equivalent is 830

 

[BigFloyd]

W-34/70 for me, its a dry yeast, so you don't have to deal with the massive starter. Two packs for a bock would be fine. I believe the WLP equivalent is 830

I hadn't thought about that one. I've been meaning to give it a try sometime.

 

[ukeedogs]

Bohemian pilsner


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[pumpkinman2012]

WLP833 - you won't regret it!

 

[Brewmex41]

Ok gang I think in about 2-3 weeks ill have my pipeline built and my stc 1000 wired and tested. Then ill give the 833 bock lager a go. I was leaning towards it to begin with, but the only reason I asked is because when you go to the website and click on wpl833 it only gave doppelbock 2 out of 4 for compatibility, but gave the old bavarian lager yeast 4/4

I didn't check the wyeast website and I think ill just build the starter from liquid. That way I can build a much larger starter than I need and save the rest for future starters, rather than try and wash the yeast after fermentation

 

[rpe290]

Ok gang I think in about 2-3 weeks ill have my pipeline built and my stc 1000 wired and tested. Then ill give the 833 bock lager a go. I was leaning towards it to begin with, but the only reason I asked is because when you go to the website and click on wpl833 it only gave doppelbock 2 out of 4 for compatibility, but gave the old bavarian lager yeast 4/4

I didn't check the wyeast website and I think ill just build the starter from liquid. That way I can build a much larger starter than I need and save the rest for future starters, rather than try and wash the yeast after fermentation

I don't think you understand just how big a yeast pitch you need for lagers, especially big ones like doppelbock. You're gonna be stepping up a LOT.

What is your time between brews? You don't really have to "wash" the yeast, just keep it IMO and that will be a lot less work than a bunch of stepped starters.

 

[Brewmex41]

I don't think you understand just how big a yeast pitch you need for lagers, especially big ones like doppelbock. You're gonna be stepping up a LOT.

What is your time between brews? You don't really have to "wash" the yeast, just keep it IMO and that will be a lot less work than a bunch of stepped starters.

I know that lagers take twice the yeast count to ferment properly. I'm not building a separate starter for the doppelbock, I'll just pitch on the yeast cake of the bock lager I plan on brewing first.
There will be plenty of healthy yeast to ferment a high gravity db that way. It will probably cut lag time in half.

 

[BigFloyd]

Do you have a stir plate? That's a very,very important piece of brew gear for making lager starters, even ones for modest gravity styles. It will allow you to reduce the size of the starter by quite a lot.

Kudos on getting that STC-1000 and setting up a chamber. You're gonna love having it.

 

[Brewmex41]

Do you have a stir plate? That's a very,very important piece of brew gear for making lager starters, even ones for modest gravity styles. It will allow you to reduce the size of the starter by quite a lot.

Kudos on getting that STC-1000 and setting up a chamber. You're gonna love having it.

I tore apart a useless desktop tower and have all the fixins for a DIY stir plate, just haven't gotten around to putting it all together yet. I have a couple weeks before I brew my first lager, as I want to build my pipeline before committing my two carboys to a bock and doppelbock, to finishing my stir plate.
My wife will love that the fermenters will be outside now.

 

[BigFloyd]

You'll want to give yourself sufficient lead time before brew day for getting the starter going. About 18-20 hours on the plate, then cold crash 2+ days before decanting.

 

[rpe290]

I know that lagers take twice the yeast count to ferment properly. I'm not building a separate starter for the doppelbock, I'll just pitch on the yeast cake of the bock lager I plan on brewing first.
There will be plenty of healthy yeast to ferment a high gravity db that way. It will probably cut lag time in half.

Oh, you are fine then, it was the statement "save the rest for future starters" that threw me off!

BTW, I have used 830 for German Pils and CAP and loved it...not sure on its use on what you are using thought

 

[Brewmex41]

Oh, you are fine then, it was the statement "save the rest for future starters" that threw me off!

BTW, I have used 830 for German Pils and CAP and loved it...not sure on its use on what you are using thought

I was just saying, if I make more than enough yeast I can save some so that in the future I can use it for say an oktoberfest or Baltic porter. I'm really looking forward to getting into German styles. Can I be the first to make an OPL? Oktoberfest+IPA? lol

 

[CharlosCarlies]

We chose 830 as our house lager yeast because of how versatile we find it, but might have to give 833 a shot with so many recommendations in this thread!

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

We chose 830 as our house lager yeast because of how versatile we find it, but might have to give 833 a shot with so many recommendations in this thread!

Yeah I would definitely give it a shot. I haven't been disappointed in any if the times I've used it. Same strain grew a larger starter than needed saved some pitched needed. next batch repeat process.


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[schiersteinbrewing]

WLP833 - you won't regret it!

Second WLP833.

 

[Brewmex41]

Yeah I would definitely give it a shot. I haven't been disappointed in any if the times I've used it. Same strain grew a larger starter than needed saved some pitched needed. next batch repeat process.


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That's my standard operating procedure for any yeast.

Ok I'm going to probably pick up the yeast next Thursday and brew it not the Saturday after, but the one after that. Should give me plenty time to build a starter, cold crash and repeat.

 

[thaymond]

I was just saying, if I make more than enough yeast I can save some so that in the future I can use it for say an oktoberfest or Baltic porter. I'm really looking forward to getting into German styles. Can I be the first to make an OPL? Oktoberfest+IPA? lol

I had the same exact idea. OPL can be a thing!

 

[schematix]

I've had great success with Wy2124. Dry, crisp, clean and drops clear. Hasn't let me down yet. WL940 was also above average.

I've had acceptable results with 830, 833, 835 and 838. All were good except a colossal failure with 838 once. My palette probably isn't sophisticated enough to differentiate lager yeasts yet, but those 4 all tasted approximately the same to me.

 

[Brewmex41]

I have a pretty good understanding of ale yeasts, but lager yeast is new territory, as is lager brewing. I got the temp controller because German style lagers are my favorite style, even tho I've been bitten by the hop crave lately. I'll still take a good dopple or ofest over anything.
I tried a Baltic porter the other day and thought it was fantastic.

I think I am going to give the 833 a go this time around. The tough thing will be to brew again with a different yeast, just to compare since by the time I do brew again, the first batch will probably be long gone, or will have aged to a different profile.

Thanks for all the input!

 

[Brewmex41]

Ok I have a couple questions

I have 2 six gallon carboys. Would I be ok fermenting in an 8 gallon plastic bucket?
How much trub loss can I expect when racking to the secondary? I want to do 6.25 or 6.5 gallons in the primary to fill my 6g carboy to maximize the amount of beer I'll have to drink and also minimize head space in the secondary while lagering.

 

[TastyAdventure]

A friend and I brewed a Doppelbock on Feb. 7th. Double decoction. We did "burn" some grain in one decoction, but not too bad. Other than that brew day went great, happily overshot efficiency a little bit, pitched a big starter of WL830.

Fermentation was 52, eventually raised to 54. My friend said he did a diacytel rest, don't have details on that. It got down to an amazing 1.014! 84% attenuation. We lagered at 40 F until May 16th, lowered to 33, and was just about to bottle on May 20th....

But then we tasted it.

It was very spicy, and a little dry. Too dry for a Doppelbock for sure, and these 2 characteristics also didn't help the alcohol content, which was noticeable for sure. No solventy flavors though. It kind of tasted like a spicy 16% Belgian Dark Strong. Not really what we were hoping for with this.



We put it back to lager while we figure out what we want to do.



Should we just give it more time? 2 months?

Should we brew a small clean batch to blend with it? Add maltodextrin to increase body and sweetness?


Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks