Using Yeast Cake

[ArcaneXor]

Question 1:
I have a Kolsch fermenting right now and I want to pitch an Altbier on top of the yeast cake after I transfer the Kolsch to secondary. How much time do I have after racking to pitch the Alt onto the yeast cake?

I prefer to do it right away, but as long as you keep it sanitary, there's no reason to leave it sitting for a few hours, or even a couple of days.

Question 2:
After racking the yeast cake temp will be about 60F. Do it need to warm it up to pitching temperature (70-75F) before I pitch the wort on top of it or can I just cool my wort to 60F and pitch it on the 60F yeast cake?

Oh , and if you're wondering, the Kolsch ferments at 60F.

Cool and pitch at fermentation temperature, or even slightly below it. You only want to pitch warm if you don't pitch enough yeast, which is not the case when you use a yeast cake.

 

[Malticulous]

Over pitching can increase esters.
YEAST GROWTH - Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts

 

[Malticulous]

Double post?!?#

 

[titleist3672]

Would using the yeast from a Hefeweizen be okay for an Alt Bier?

Also, this is my first post. WOOT!

 

[citabria]

Probably not but a Dunkelweiss would be perfect.

 

[smakudwn]

Ok just to be clear. I'm going to be reusing a yeast cake here shortly and have a question. I'm not going to just pitch on top of the yeast cake. So my thought was after I rack the wort off the cake. Collect what is left in a container. Clean the Primary. Add the new wort. Aerate. Then pitch a portion of the yeast that is in the container (I’m not concerned with saving the rest.) Would pitching 1/2 of what is left be considered over pitching? Its just another 1.042 ale going on top of it.

thanks in advanced.

 

[Malticulous]

Half would be way overpitching. See MR. Malty, "Repitching from Slurry."
Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator
Use 2/3 cups.

 

[smakudwn]

hey thanks. although the "thin slurry and thick slurry" are kinda vauge, but it should give me a good idea.

thanks!

 

[ericm]

hey thanks. although the "thin slurry and thick slurry" are kinda vauge, but it should give me a good idea.

thanks!

I can't remember which podcast it was, but there was a jamil podcast about repitching yeast where he mentions that the default setting for that thick-thin slider is about right for a yeast cake that's settled out in the fridge for several days to a week or so.

 

[Malticulous]

I think the viability rate drops off far too fast. Remember, the yeast companies have there hands in his site.

 

[magnj]

So I should not just pull the beer off the cake and then dump in new wort, but take a lot of the cake out?

 

[llazy_llama]

Either way works. I prefer to pitch straight onto a full yeast cake, some prefer not to. The choice is yours, but neither one will ruin your beer.

 

[magnj]

Ok I just don't want to overpitch. I've done it before but this is the first time I've heard that it could be detrimental.

 

[Malticulous]

Sometimes the whole cake could be bad. Yeast bite can happen. A little less than Mr. Malty says will be fine and little more would still be fine. Some lag time is a good thing (let your yeast have some and populate their little world!) It makes for better beer.

 

[cdburg]

I think the viability rate drops off far too fast. Remember, the yeast companies have there hands in his site.

You really think that Jamil wrote the code in the calculator to downgrade the viability quicker and cause people to buy new yeast when they don't need to? Are the black helicopters flying over your house too?

 

[Malticulous]

No, I think the best information he had was off. It's not so simple anyway. Harvest and storage play a huge role and we can not trust everyone's practices. They played it too much on the safe side (to sell new yeast.). This is from my experience.

 

[cdburg]

If you prefer to think that, you're more than welcome. From what I have heard him describe multiple times on his shows on The Brewing Network, the calculator was based off both numbers he got from studies from Wyeast and from his own studies. He wasn't simply fed numbers from yast companies. He also backed up those numbers with his own information.

Harvest and storage do play a large role, but it's also been supported by other professional interviews I've seen and read that harvested yeast tends to go downhill pretty quickly as it uses up it's reserves. I really doubt that his motives are selling yeast. I think they're more to have something that will meet the "middle of the road" practices used by most homebrewers. It may play it a little on the "safe side," but I'd rather play it safe and make better beer, personally.

That said, I definitely agree with you that a little more or a little less than the amounts the calculator recommends will be fine. Lag time is also definitely not bad. In fact, it's a necessary thing. Esters made during yeast growth are part of the flavor of all beers. Pitching on to an entire cake has not produced beer as good as a proper pitch, in my experience.

 

[Malticulous]

I certainly agree with you and I disagree on some points. We both must be both be right, LOL.

From what I have heard him describe multiple times on his shows

I'm talking about what I know yeast can do, nothing else. My viability rates must be far better or the calculator is fouled. I pick the latter.

But then the yeaties do love me!

 

[cdburg]

No harm, no foul. Like I said, you're very welcome to your own opinions. I just disagree with part of what you're saying. I know what yeast has done for me too, especially a few varieties that I use a lot, and my experience tends to lean more toward his calculator.

As Ron Burgundy would say "Whale's ******... Agree to disagree."

 

[Malticulous]

Opinion is not experience. I agree to disagree,

 

[talenos]

So, for a first time of trying this I want to make an oatmeal stout and follow it up with a RIS. I noticed the recipe for the RIS actually recommended pitching onto a yeast cake as preferable. Does this help with higher gravity brews a lot then?

 

[cdburg]

So, for a first time of trying this I want to make an oatmeal stout and follow it up with a RIS. I noticed the recipe for the RIS actually recommended pitching onto a yeast cake as preferable. Does this help with higher gravity brews a lot then?

Personally, as described earlier, I would almost never pitch onto an entire yeast cake. For most beers, using the entire cake would be overpitching. Brewing a smaller beer can be a great way to get more yeast for a larger beer (like a RIS). Rather than pitching onto the entire cake though, you should use the "proper" (or close to it) amount of yeast for your needs.

For a ball park suggestion on the amount of yeast, try the Mr. Malty Yeast Pitching Calculator:
Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

If you're looking for more information about repitching, the Brew Strong episode on repitcing may be a good source of information. Give it a listen, if you have some time.
The Brewing Network.com - : Brew Strong > Repitching

 

[smakudwn]

ok. So i racked to the secondary last night. swirled what was left in the bottom of the primary and put it in a sanatized glass container (holy crap......if thats mostly yeast that is a lot of yeast!)and then into the fridge. So my question is. I wont be ready to use this till thursday. Do i just take the container out and decant then pitch how much i need? Is this too long to wait?

thanks

 

[Mainebrew]

I just did this friday night, racked a moose drool and used the s-o4 cake for the Oatmeal Stout I did. There was action within a couple of hours, but did not need a blowoff tube I put 5 gallons in a 6.5 gal carboy, the funny thing is my buddy took the other 1/2 of the 10 gallon batch and pitched a dry S-04 pack and the next night it blew the airlock off and hit the ceiling. It was a 1.070 beer though and his carboy was narrow and mine was a wide 6.5

 

[wendelgee2]

I had a beer ferment far too hot (varying from 75 to 85F). Are those yeasts "stressed" or otherwised mutated, or would it be okay to pitch onto that cake?

 

[wendelgee2]

BrewStrong answered my question: If the beer you just brewed with the yeast didn't come out well, don't pitch onto it again.

[Edit: Actually, BrewStrong then said that fermenting at (relatively) high temps does not have a large negative impact on yeast viability.]

 

[smakudwn]

Update. I pitched most of that yeast slury into the next batch and it started fermenting in about 8 hours. Everything so far seems to be going well. Will bottle this in the next week then see from there.

 

[ErieShores]

I hate to bump an old thread but I'm wondering about the results from some of the cake/slurry pitches. I'm brewing a brown ale and bottling a porter. I'm considering pitching on the cake but I'm still a bit leery.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

I hate to bump an old thread but I'm wondering about the results from some of the cake/slurry pitches. I'm brewing a brown ale and bottling a porter. I'm considering pitching on the cake but I'm still a bit leery.

I have done it several times with zero problems. ALWAYS from a smaller to a larger beer . I did however try an experiment with a brew I am dry hopping right now. I hate the excess trub from pitching on an entire yeast cake and I saw this on here and it seems to have worked. I racked my initial brew into a bottling bucket then opened up a ziploc baggie and stuck it over the top of the carboy ( or you could scoop it out if using a bucket.) I turned the carboy upside down and poured a good amount of trub into the baggie... sealed it up and tossed it in the beer fridge. A week or so later brewed and cut the corner of the baggie off with sanitized scissors and squeezed the trub into the new fermentor like squeezing toothpaste. racked the beer on top of that and had activity REALLY quickly...
I think this will only work if used soon. Then there is always yeast washing which works very well.

 

[ErieShores]

Steve, would the baggie or Pyrex measuring cup work if it was used the same day? I plan to bottle and brew simultaniously.