Using Knox gelatin for the 1st time

[Fat Guy Brewing]

I forgot irish moss when I cooked my porter so I thought I would try Knox gelatin for the first time in the secondary. I read a few threads on it and it sounds simple enough. So I poured 1 packet into about 1 cup of warm water. Right away it started clumping up and was hard to work with, kind of like the bottom of a bag of DME. It dissolved for the most part and I let it sit for 30 minutes. Then I heated it to before boiling and then cooled it back down and poured it into the secondary. Racked a porter on top of it. Now, 1 day later it looks like I have a 1 inch layer of porter jello at the bottom of the secondary. Does this sound normal? Have I done something wrong in the process? How do you eat jello off the bottom of a carboy? Thanks for the help.

 

[BigEd]

The gelatin should be soaked in cold water, just like it says on the label. This is called "blooming" the gelatin, rehydrating the granules and letting it start to dissolve in the water. After 10 minutes or so heat the resulting goo to pasteurization temperature, or about 170F. Do not boil the gelatin solution. Stir the heated mixture to dissolve and incorporate, it should be clear and uniform at this point. Pour the warm gelatin mixture into cold beer and let it sit for a few days. Rack and package your now cleared beer. BTW all you need for five gallons of beer is a half envelope of gelatin.

 

[NVMuskie]

As was just mentioned... dissolving the gelatin in cold water first helps immensely.

 

[GreenwoodRover]

A whole packed it 1 cup of water seems like overkill.
I usually just add 1 Tablespoon (unless that is the package size) to a cup of water.
+1 to the cold water.

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

Thanks for the help. There are no instructions on the box except how to make jello and cheesecake (hmm porter cheesecake?). Its a small 1 oz box with 4 packets so it looks to be about 1 tablespoon per package.

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

Just bottled the other day and it was not a layer of jello at the bottom. Just some proteins and other junk falling out and hitting the bottom side of the carboy. I can't tell how clear it is yet, just have to wait and pour when its ready.

 

[srm775]

Next time, you don't want to rack the beer on top of it, but rather pour it into the already racked beer. As it drops out of solution, it grabs the proteins along the way.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Next time, you don't want to rack the beer on top of it, but rather pour it into the already racked beer. As it drops out of solution, it grabs the proteins along the way.

I have heard the exact opposite. Racking on top of the gelatine allows the full volume of wort to mix thoroughly with the knox and best utilize the product. If you just dump the Knox in the full volume of wort, little to no mixing will occur. This is the same theory as racking on top of a priming solution in a bottling bucket.

 

[Korben]

I thought you put the knox gelatin into the primary a few days before racking to the bottling bucket and then bottled as normal? Also, I have heard you may want to add some fresh yeast to the racked beer to make sure it carbs well?

 

[BrewerBill]

I have heard the exact opposite. Racking on top of the gelatin allows the full volume of wort to mix thoroughly with the knox and best utilize the product. If you just dump the Knox in the full volume of wort, little to no mixing will occur. This is the same theory as racking on top of a priming solution in a bottling bucket.

Intuitively, racking on top of the gelatin seems to make better sense.

Also, what are your thoughts about using gelatin in a conical fermenter where no "secondary" fermentation takes place?

 

[lamarguy]

I have heard the exact opposite. Racking on top of the gelatine allows the full volume of wort to mix thoroughly with the knox and best utilize the product.

Assuming the gelatin is dissolved before you add it to the beer, it will naturally sink to the bottom (mixing as it goes via negative particle attraction). I don't believe one technique is better than the other.

And ya, 1 packet is way too much gelatin for a 5 gallon batch. The recommended dosing is 1.5g (1/2 tsp) - 3g (1 tsp) dissolved in 4 oz of water per 5 gallons.

If you detect astringency (tannins) or the beer is especially hazy, use the upper 3g dose. Otherwise, 1.5g is appropriate.

 

[ChrisS68]

1/2-1 teaspoon?
Just about everything I was reading said one tablespoon
I wonder if that explains the gelatinous mass in my secondary.

 

[lamarguy]

1/2-1 teaspoon?
Just about everything I was reading said one tablespoon
I wonder if that explains the gelatinous mass in my secondary.

Yummmm....Beer jello! It's a huge hit in Japan.

 

[srm775]

I have heard the exact opposite. Racking on top of the gelatine allows the full volume of wort to mix thoroughly with the knox and best utilize the product. If you just dump the Knox in the full volume of wort, little to no mixing will occur. This is the same theory as racking on top of a priming solution in a bottling bucket.

Well, that's the way I always do it and it makes perfectly clear beer. I think the point is for the geletin to bind with the proteins and yeast and dissipate out of suspension.

 

[lamarguy]

I think the point is for the geletin to bind with the proteins and yeast and dissipate out of suspension.

Gelatin binds to protein compounds, but it does nothing for yeast. If you want to drop the yeast out of suspension, you'll need to use another fining or cold crash.

I should point out that using too much gelatin can overly thin your beer and significantly reduce the IBU. This is because gelatin binds to hop compounds as well. That's why it's important to follow the guidelines.

 

[craigbrew]

I used gelatin last night for my Oktoberfest. I have a question thou. I took a sample so I could do a gravity reading and the beer was real clear already. I added the gelatin anyway. Will this affect the time it takes to carb/bottle condition my beer?

 

[Jack]

Just out of curiosity, why are you using clarifiers in a porter? Porters are dark, which makes observing clarity difficult.

Also: How cold do you have to get the beer once gelatine is added? I'm thinking about trying it out this week on my rye pale ale, but I'm not sure if I can get it cold enough.

 

[Eastside Brewer]

The colder the better, My fridge can get the temp down to about 34 degrees, thats when I add the gelatin and give it a good stir and let it stand for 3 days and then rack it off into a keg for serving.


Eastside

 

[Coastarine]

Just to clarify (hah!) it is okay or even beneficial to add the gelatin to cold beer? My oktoberfest is at 40 and I was considering adding gelatin.

 

[lamarguy]

Just to clarify (hah!) is it okay or even beneficial to add the gelatin to cold beer? My oktoberfest is at 40 and I was considering adding gelatin.

Ya, just drop in 1/2 TSP of gelatin at <= 100F and you're good after a couple of days. Just remember, a little goes a long way.

 

[SilverKing]

I always end up with a layer of gelatin/proteins at the bottom of my carboy. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I also add the gelatin to the beer after it's in the secondary. Not for any particular reason, I just do. So far I've been happy with the results.

As far as a "clear" porter... go for it. Anyone who is evaluating your beer will try to look through it. Dark or not, you'll see the clarity....and it's good practice for next time.

 

[Coastarine]

Cool, I used gelatin a few times back when I bottled so I never could really tell what kind of difference it made. I just added it to four kegs that had some protein haze (yeast is all settled out) so I'll see how they look in a few days.

 

[fastricky]

I always end up with a layer of gelatin/proteins at the bottom of my carboy. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I also add the gelatin to the beer after it's in the secondary. Not for any particular reason, I just do. So far I've been happy with the results.

As far as a "clear" porter... go for it. Anyone who is evaluating your beer will try to look through it. Dark or not, you'll see the clarity....and it's good practice for next time.

I've got a beer right now in the secondary and want to add gelatin to see what the results are... do I need to mix/shake up the secondary to adequately mix in the gelatin or is it OK to just pour it in on top?

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

Unfortunately there were 2 different opinions earlier in the thread. One said to pour the gelatin on top so it would filter its way down. The other said to rack on top of the gelatin to mix it in with the beer, like racking on top of priming sugar, if you bottle that way. I have been using the latter method and putting the gelatin mixture into the carboy first.

 

[lamarguy]

do I need to mix/shake up the secondary to adequately mix in the gelatin or is it OK to just pour it in on top?

Just pour the solution on top of the beer, there is no advantage to mixing. Gelatin works because it's positively charged and binds to negatively charged tannins and haze compounds.

 

[fastricky]

Thanks gents!

 

[IrregularPulse]

I think I'll try this on my a beer I have kegged. I was going to try it with my next brew while in secondary, but i think I'll try it on this one first. good thread.

 

[Fat Guy Brewing]

I have always racked on top of the gelatin, however for the Belgian White I just brewed, I poured the gelatin on top after it was already in the secondary. I will see if I can tell a difference.

 

[rickfrothingham]

I have always racked on top of the gelatin, however for the Belgian White I just brewed, I poured the gelatin on top after it was already in the secondary. I will see if I can tell a difference.

Hi Fat Guy,

What were the results of your experiment? Also, i'm used drinking my belgian white's cloudy... was there a reason you decided to clarify this one?

 

[crammer]

subscribing for future reference.