Using grains other than rice with yeast balls?

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Anyone ever done this? e.g. using wheat or barley, unmalted in part or all of the fermentation using Chinese yeast balls? I'm just curious after doing a fair bit of research into Baijiu (a distilled beverage, about 55-60% ABV, the likes of which is apparently hideous to westerners). I find better examples to be fairly good and complex, but it's hard to come by. The cheapest brand is apparently made of sorghum but it's all fermented in the same way as the sticky on here to make farmers wine. As I understand, it could be quite tasty and I plan on trying it as soon as my yeast gets here from Onto yeast. Maybe I'll be the first on here to document it? Just the wine of course, the nitty-gritty of distilling is a hush topic on here.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Just received my yeast balls from Onto yeast! gonna run to the store for glutinous rice and some kind of other grain. Maybe wheat? I have malted stuff but I wanna try from unmalted wish me luck

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Been going for a little bit now, followed basic recipe. Didn't want to stray too far for my first batch so I added a fistful (~2/3 cup) of rye to the rice. Using Calrose glutinous sticky rice. Smelling very interesting at this point! sooo giddy.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Started another all-rice batch yesterday as I control (plus I just can't stop myself). Did some searching and it looks like a few sources of starch are out, such a potatoes, not that I was going to but now I'm really not gonna. Looking for sorghum but I have since moved to juggalo-ville about 4 months back and can't find it for a reasonable price anywhere. Corn grits also, while plentiful, sounded nasty. I think other cereal grains might do really well though, such as rye, wheat, sorghum, and barley, based off of research. The hunt continues.

 

[Zibe]

Let me know how this goes I have two good sized bags of yeast balls I bought at an Asian grocery in cleveland and I was haveing similar thoughts I've done a couple one gallon wine batches with jasmine (6 cups rice) but was wondering about doing three cups rice and some barley (was gonna use malted but I also have some unmalted that I bought at a feed store for a failed malting experiment) I also wanted to hop it since the rice wine is a little sweet for me.




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[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

It's rockin and rollin, but I have a fear from smelling the rye batch that even though I did a two-step sanitizing regimen on the bucket I used I still detect some smells similar to the ginger beer I made it in beforehand using ginger beer plant. Very unique lacto smell from the GBP, not entirely a bad thing but I think it'll skew the flavors enough to make the final results somewhat inconclusive. I only say the smell is different but familiar because the all-rice batch doesn't smell the same, which is either a function of the rye or the fact that my bucket still managed to have some critters in spite of a 20-min peroxycarb soak with hot water and an acid bath afterward.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

OK, so apparently sorghum is hard to come by in my neck of the woods, but I did get some bulk millet and white wheat. From reading I found that strong-aroma Baijiu has wheat in the mix so I'm going to get a wheat batch, a millet batch, and a blended batch rolling asap. I need some more vessels to ferment in, that'll come tomorrow. As for now, I have one with rice/rye that's very interesting, possibly adulterated with lacto from my GBP, and an all-rice batch as a control. When I get it done (probably tomorrow) i'll get some pics up and get this thread rolling.

 

[Motorbuffalo]

I just started a batch of corn wine yesterday, I'm interested to hear how your rye/rice wine turns out. I like the lactic tang that the rice wine develops after extended fermentation, I bet it'd pair well with some spicy rye flavors. Are you using malted or unmalted wheat for your next batch?

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Unmalted wheat, I plan on trying to get a batch going as soon as I have time, possibly tomorrow. I get really excited about things and then realize the reality of doing them during the workweek.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

So here's some pics of the wheat process I did last night. Cooking the berries takes significantly longer than rice, but the berries will swell up to 3 times their size, so they're holding a lot of water. I'm dubious about whether or not most of the berries will be affected but since it is inoculated with a mold they should be able to penetrate the grain. As you can see I even was able to pack a fair amount in (about 4 cups cooked) and even with packing there's plenty of airspace in between grains since it's not like using sticky rice. Anyhow, enjoy the eye candy, I think I'm gonna do the millet one today.

 

[LabRatBrewer]

This thread is very interesting. Please posts more picks if the wheat starts to get eaten and separates from the alcohol like rice does.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Quick update! Did the millet batch yesterday, no real significant change. Update on the wheat, not a lot of activity but many of the wheat berries that were swollen have burst open, which I take is a good sign. Another thing to note is that this may seem to be taking more time than usual, but my house is pretty cold (~60F) and it makes the process much slower. Took a taste of the rye/rice batch the other day in a moment of weakness and anticipation. Very grainy kinda odd flavor to it, can't quite put my finger on it, not bad, but not great. Also might be infected with GBP so that might also be the culprit. Pics later!

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

So here's the wheat. Some berries have burst and are developing fine white mold which is a grat sign, some water accumulating in the bottom. Then there's the millet batch, before/after. It fell in the jar a lot after inoculation and it taking to the mold better than the wheat. In the future if I use wheat again I'm going to crack it first in my mill before cooking so it doesn't have the lag and it might improve yield. Bulgur might also be an option! Stay tuned folks.

 

[schwiz]

you should give steel cut oats a try too.

 

[madwilliamflint]

you should give steel cut oats a try too.

Voice of experience? That sounds like a fun little experiment.

 

[schwiz]

Voice of experience? That sounds like a fun little experiment.

No I just saw he was looking to try a few more grains and its my favorite for eating.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

So here's the wheat and millet batches. The wheat has much less liquid, maybe because the berries are still mostly whole. The millet gave up a lot of water which is interesting. The wheat definitely smells better than the millet, but neither is too nasty-smelling. I extracted my rice/rye batch and it was somewhat offensive and grainy in a bad way. Might have been the GBP but I don't think it was, it's just kinda funky. So maybe no rye in the future unless I want a little dryness and tannic mouthfeel. Going to start a gallon batch today of 4 cups sticky rice and 2 cups wheat that I cracked in my mill before cooking. The smell and taste of the wheat wine is amazing, think a really estery hefeweizen with some lactic twang to it, very nice. It's also thick, almost slimy, so I'm thinking that combining it with rice might boost mouthfeel and aroma considerably. Enjoy, and more to come in the next few days.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Quick update on the jars, separating quite nicely, the wheat wine is very clear (by comparison) and has a very pleasant scent and light flavor, which seems to have matured. Both are looking very promising.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

I should also note that the wheat berries skin is pretty strong, and although it appears that they're intact I chewed a few up and they melted in my mouth, I'm guessing the free-run wine will be far more clear than when I give it a good squeeze. Boozy cream-o-wheat anyone?

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

Here is Finland they make traditional Sahti with bread yeast.a beer scientist did some research here and the bread yeast was closely related to flavors of Berliner weiss yeast.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Figured I hadn't updated in a while. Noticeably different results with the millet and wheat. The wheat yielded much more wine after pressing, about 300ml more than the millet. It also had a far more pleasant flavor and aroma. The millet wine, though less in quantity, was not at all bad and I still actually have some, it tastes better either cold or warmed in a carafe. I'm using the same grains mixed together now with some more rice as I've read some literature that putting the grains through numerous iterations of the brewing cycle can help develop interesting flavors. I may venture out in the weather today and try my hand at a buckwheat batch.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

Good work

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Woah! been a while! Tried some jiu of 2nd-3rd generatio wheat/millet/and rice with new rice just yesterday, been sitting quite a while. VERY TASTY. Currently cooking buckwheat to start a pure buckwheat batch tonight, ere' goes!

 

[bruhops]

http://www.sytu.edu.cn/zhgjiu/umain.htm if you can access this you may find it of interest, a bit of history and technique regards oriental solid state fermentation.

 

[fredthecat]

Using my process detailed here i tried adding in about 14.5% unhusked black rice and 0.5% black malt to 85% white rice. end result is flavourful and interesting but just a little too sour to really drink and fully enjoy. i plan to turn about half of it into vinegar. it was a cheap experiment but a failure.

posting this re: other grains though i didnt use "yeast balls"

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

http://www.sytu.edu.cn/zhgjiu/umain.htm if you can access this you may find it of interest, a bit of history and technique regards oriental solid state fermentation.

WHA WHA WHA WHATT!? awesome resource!

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

OK, so tried some of the wine from the buckwheat batch, almost 4 weeks, and it is odd. Very mucilaginous, strong, and has an almost hazelnut like taste but bitter and lingering. Maybe roasted buckwheat would have been better? We shall see!!!!

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

Sounds like the " bouzo" house beer from Kyrgyzstan I had a few years back.

 

[9au8]

OK, so tried some of the wine from the buckwheat batch, almost 4 weeks, and it is odd. Very mucilaginous, strong, and has an almost hazelnut like taste but bitter and lingering. Maybe roasted buckwheat would have been better? We shall see!!!!

Any updates? Curious for the next part...

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Well, it's been two years without an update so...no. Haven't had the time to venture any further because of work, life, and the lack of a need to experiment. I kinda figured at the time that other people might spend the 5-6 dollars to try and make a batch of something crazy on their own time. Sorry, I'm not meaning to come off rude, but this is a pretty old thread and I've since moved on. My recommendation: Don't experiment too much, and instead perfect using rice to make excellent rice wine. Much of what I did only ended in something not real great that ended up getting used for other things like vinegar.