Sugar Wine (or Kilju, prison wine, hooch... whatever you want to call it) Question

[The Experimenter]

i just remembered the DAP...which is just a nitrogen source...

Oh... my bad. It is packaged and sold as "nutrient", so I figured it was a nutrient. Is it not?

What defines a "nutrient"? I mean, isn't a nutrient any chemical or compound that allows an organism to function more efficiently and maintain good health? Or is there a more formal brewer's definition of nutrient that excludes DAP from being included?

 

[bracconiere]

Oh... my bad. It is packaged and sold as "nutrient", so I figured it was a nutrient. Is it not?

What defines a "nutrient"? I mean, isn't a nutrient any chemical or compound that allows an organism to function more efficiently and maintain good health? Or is there a more formal brewer's definition of nutrient that excludes DAP from being included?

i have tried so hard to find a patent on a "turbo yeast" to find out. but dap is just a nitrogen source, and mildly helps. i would assume normally yeast would prefer some amino acids for nitrogen.

in my humble opion the best use of DAP i can think of, would be for your future hop plants?

you're the experimenter, so buy a pouch of turbo, and you'll hit 16% in ONE day...so there be some super dupper nutes going on it that stuff....

(like i said i've been trying to figure out the secret!)

 

[marc1]

Oh... my bad. It is packaged and sold as "nutrient", so I figured it was a nutrient. Is it not?

What defines a "nutrient"? I mean, isn't a nutrient any chemical or compound that allows an organism to function more efficiently and maintain good health? Or is there a more formal brewer's definition of nutrient that excludes DAP from being included?

It's a yeast nutrient, but it's not everything yeast need to grow well. Compare:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/diammonium-phosphate-dap-yeast-nutrient.html
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermaid.html
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermaid-yeast-nutrient.html

 

[The Experimenter]

you're the experimenter, so buy a pouch of turbo, and you'll hit 16% in ONE day...so there be some super dupper nutes going on it that stuff....

(like i said i've been trying to figure out the secret!)

Right you are! I am the experimenter and experiment I shall!... I mean not right away. I've already got like 6 other experiments and test batches going, but I'll definitely add it to the list.

 

[The Experimenter]

It's a yeast nutrient, but it's not everything yeast need to grow well. Compare:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/diammonium-phosphate-dap-yeast-nutrient.html
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermaid.html
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermaid-yeast-nutrient.html

Thanks for the links and resources. Links are always appreciated!!

 

[The Experimenter]

By the way, I should point out that what I have been calling "yeast energizer" (because that's what it is packaged as by LD Carlson) is DAP, Springcell, and Magnesium Sulphate.

I'm not mentioning that in response to anyone in particular, I just thought I should define what the "energizer" I've been talking about is just so we're all on the same page.

Edit: The thing that made me realize that I should identify what my "energizer" is, was the link posted by marc1. I followed the Fermaid O link and was immediately struck by how similar it looks to the energizer I have. They both are an ultra-fine light yellow powder/dust (I'm not saying it's the same thing, but it made me wonder how similar they are and made me realize that I never really defined what my "energizer" was)

 

[Neeb]

You can add ACAI powder in, which contains sugar, magnesium, iron, zinc, calcium and phosphorus. I mention those specifically because those help feed yeast. You would probably want to filter it out afterward but only for sediment reasons, though you could totally drink it without filtering. Not really a fan of Kilju, and I don't mean the taste either. Maybe if an expert made some and it sat for 3 months.

 

[The Experimenter]

You can add ACAI powder in, which contains sugar, magnesium, iron, zinc, calcium and phosphorus. I mention those specifically because those help feed yeast. You would probably want to filter it out afterward but only for sediment reasons, though you could totally drink it without filtering. Not really a fan of Kilju, and I don't mean the taste either. Maybe if an expert made some and it sat for 3 months.

Thanks for the tip. I already bottled it, but maybe the next time I have a struggling brew I might try that.

I understand not liking Kilju, I'm not a huge fan either. I was just experimenting. Luckily one of my family members likes the final outcome (which I mixed with some lemon juice and lime juice when bottling into 12oz bottles, which they say tastes sort of like a cheap Limoncello to them), so someone will drink it at least... I might have a bottle or two as well, but IMO it's not great stuff.

 

[The Experimenter]

As I said at some point earlier in this thread, I’m relatively new to brewing and still learning things. I was just on YouTube watching a video from “Doin’ the Most” and he was talking about “inverting” sugar, which I am just now learning about for the first time.

I never inverted the sugar on this sugar wine. I did not use hot water or an acid to help break the sucrose down into glucose and fructose (I had used luke-warm/warm water; I had put the sugar in the water at room temp and then heated it on the stove and stirred until the sugar was all dissolved; but it never got terribly hot, no more than 110-120°F before it was all dissolved and I took it off the heat)…

Maybe that’s why this brew struggled so much and took so long... because I didn’t invert the sugar properly? Any thoughts on this?

 

[bernardsmith]

I suspect that yeast don't need the sugars to be inverted to be able to consume and ferment them. They prefer glucose because it is a little easier to ferment than sucrose so in any solution the yeast go after glucose before sucrose. But that's a lot like us: we , as a species, tend to prefer to consume simple sugars to complex carbohydrates.

My guess is that the struggle the yeast had to ferment the sugars in solution (the must) was because sugars in and of themselves contain very few of the compounds yeast need to be able to reproduce and repair cell structures. Yeast need nitrogen , oxygen, B vitamins, amino acids, calcium, potassium, zinc, and magnesium and many other trace metals and minerals. Sugar is a nutritional desert for yeast. Malted barley (wort) is not, so brewers rarely have to worry about feeding the nutritional needs of yeast, but wine makers can rarely avoid this, though some fruit is naturally rich in these compounds. Table sugar and honey are not.

 

[The Experimenter]

I suspect that yeast don't need the sugars to be inverted to be able to consume and ferment them. They prefer glucose because it is a little easier to ferment than sucrose so in any solution the yeast go after glucose before sucrose. But that's a lot like us: we , as a species, tend to prefer to consume simple sugars to complex carbohydrates.

My guess is that the struggle the yeast had to ferment the sugars in solution (the must) was because sugars in and of themselves ce any of tontain very few of the compounds yeast need to be able to reproduce and repair cell structures. Yeast need nitrogen , oxygen, B vitamins, amino acids, calcium, potassium, zinc, and magnesium and many other trace metals and minerals. Sugar is a nutritional desert for yeast. Malted barley (wort) is not, so brewers rarely have to worry about feeding the nutritional needs of yeast, but wine makers can rarely avoid this, though some fruit is naturally rich in these compounds. Table sugar and honey are not.

Ok, thank you.