Using bourbon soaked oak chips in primary?

[foxyaardvark]

I'm making a variation of Northern Brewer's Bourbon Barrel Porter and I was wondering if it is absolutely necessary to use a secondary to add the oak chips and bourbon. If I waited for fermentation to be mostly finished and then bulk aged in primary would that cause any problems?

 

[RmikeVT]

I'm making a variation of Northern Brewer's Bourbon Barrel Porter and I was wondering if it is absolutely necessary to use a secondary to add the oak chips and bourbon. If I waited for fermentation to be mostly finished and then bulk aged in primary would that cause any problems?

I don't like to do secondaries, but I would transfer if you plan on aging longer than 4 to 6 weeks. My primary concern would be oxidation, with all the head space in primary you are really exposing the beer. If you are aging a beer for months you really want a carboy filled up to the neck to minimize exposed surface area. Also, I would but the chips in a sanitized grain/hop bag and sink it to the bottom with some sanitized SS washers.

 

[Colorowdy]

This is what I have done in the past with favorable results.
Per my crappy note taking.
Soak oak chips in bourbon for at least 1 week. 1 oz dark oak cubes 6oz bourbon
5 days after pitching yeast. Strain most of the bourbon off and add oak chips. Save leftover booze to add at bottling.
Leave on oak chips for three weeks.
Rack to bottling bucket with bourbon and priming sugar.
Bottle.
This is from when I first started. Sorry for the sπ™&*$ note taking.

 

[Rich_F]

The bourbon ale I made was in the secondary for 9 months before I bottled it. It's been in bottles for a month now, and let me tell you, it's fantastic. The thing I've learned with bourbon/oak aged ales is the longer you let them age the better. Once they're bottled/kegged and they mellow out a little more you find out it was sooo worth the wait. patience my friend

edit: Also, I soaked the cubes in maker's mark for around a month before I added them to the secondary. (I started soaking them before I brewed the beer). And added roughly 2 oz of maker's mark to the secondary with the cubes. On bottling day the only thing I did was add priming sugar, no extra bourbon or anything, no need to after aging for as long as I did

 

[foxyaardvark]

I don't like to do secondaries, but I would transfer if you plan on aging longer than 4 to 6 weeks. My primary concern would be oxidation, with all the head space in primary you are really exposing the beer. If you are aging a beer for months you really want a carboy filled up to the neck to minimize exposed surface area. Also, I would but the chips in a sanitized grain/hop bag and sink it to the bottom with some sanitized SS washers.

Ok. My question is: what advantage does a secondary have over a primary in terms of reducing oxidation. The only other vessel I have is my bottling bucket which might have slightly less head space but not much. Wouldn't i risk more oxidization by introducing oxygen during the siphoning process into secondary? I'm also wondering if the chips need to be removed before bottling as I don't want to drink wood. I was considering using my brew bag to put the chips in and then use it to take them out. Thoughts?

 

[TungstenBeer]

Ok. My question is: what advantage does a secondary have over a primary in terms of reducing oxidation. The only other vessel I have is my bottling bucket which might have slightly less head space but not much. Wouldn't i risk more oxidization by introducing oxygen during the siphoning process into secondary? I'm also wondering if the chips need to be removed before bottling as I don't want to drink wood. I was considering using my brew bag to put the chips in and then use it to take them out. Thoughts?

There are a lot of questions here... but to answer the first one re: oxidation, in my book you have two main risks for oxidation when racking to secondary.

1. Head space in secondary. Ideally you want your vessel filled to the brim to minimize head space. Otherwise you risk air (which includes O2 obviously) getting trapped in with your beer and oxidizing it.

Possible solution: flush your vessel with CO2 before you rack into it and then if you want to be extra careful, purge the headspace after racking. CO2 is heavier than oxygen, so this would reduce your risk of oxidation from this type of oxidation.

2. Oxygen introduced directly via aeration during siphoning. In my opinion, this is less of a risk because it's easily prevented by good practices and a long enough hose to minimize splashing.

To generally answer the other questiosn involved... you definitely run a higher risk racking to a secondary vessel. Many people do it for fear of the yeast eating some of the flavors you are trying to introduce (via dry hops, wood chips, liqour, fruit... whether right or wrong, not trying to debate it here). I have no idea the effect yeast would have on bourbon OR wood chips, however.

 

[HolyKrausenBatman]

One thing to consider is that the yeast will metabolize the components from the oak that contribute the vanilla flavor to the beer, as well as other components added by the oak. If you add the oak during active fermentation, you may not get some of those characteristic flavors that we attribute to oak. You will, however, get the components from the oak that add body and that spice. These tend to effect the finish of the beer. The taste will linger longer and add mouthfeel. So, one reason for racking the beer off the yeast is to try to retain the flavoring components from the oak.

 

[chocotaco]

I did this with cabernet-soaked oak cubes. I boiled them first and discarded the boiling water. But there was still WAY too much oak in the final beer. I would boil two or three times, discarding the water each time before soaking and then adding to the beer.

New oak is a very powerful, undesirable flavor in my opinion. Unless you want your beer to taste like a sharp, nasty chardonnay.

This was one packet of medium-toast French oak cubes from Northern Brewer in a 3-gallon batch. Maybe you would have better luck if you used less cubes or a MUCH larger batch (like 10 gal)

Edit: I also discarded the cabernet they were soaked in and used only the cubes. WAY too much oak. It was for a Nelson Sauvin IPA (thinking the cabernet sauvignon would synergize with its namesake wine). I had to dump the batch because it was undrinkably oakey.

 

[foxyaardvark]

One thing to consider is that the yeast will metabolize the components from the oak that contribute the vanilla flavor to the beer, as well as other components added by the oak. If you add the oak during active fermentation, you may not get some of those characteristic flavors that we attribute to oak. You will, however, get the components from the oak that add body and that spice. These tend to effect the finish of the beer. The taste will linger longer and add mouthfeel. So, one reason for racking the beer off the yeast is to try to retain the flavoring components from the oak.

I do not plan to add the oak and bourbon during active fermentation. My plan was to add the oak in a sanitized brewbag AFTER about 3-4 weeks. Active fermentation will be nonexistent by then. I don't see how the yeast will negatively impact oak flavors as there is still yeast during the bottle aging process, even if you do use a secondary. Oxidation is not a concern in a glass carboy for primary with an airlock. I think I am going to give it a shot and age it with the oak for a week or two in primary before bottling. Unless someone can give me a compelling reason that this will damage the beer with evidence to back it up. My thinking is that the yeast will be essentially done fermenting the beer so it won't be inclined to eat up my flavor compounds from the oak. Am I wrong? Very tempted to do it in primary since I don't have a secondary available at the time anyway. Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

 

[rossi46]

I have added french oak chips soaked in dark rum after primary fermentation in the primary and had to wait 6 months or so for the oak to mellow. The oak was in for 7 days.

 

[ianw58]

Foxyaardvark:

To answer your question, though not based on empirical data, my fear in leaving the beer on the yeast for so long in the primary would be the increase the chance of damage from autolysis. Racking off the yeast into a secondary vessel would reduce this possibility.

I understand your problem of no available secondaries, but you should view this as an opportunity!

Just today, I was forced to purchase two kegs because I, too, and out of vessels for secondary fermentation and conditioning. My wife actually told me to quit being cheap and go and get two kegs from my LHBS!

The secret? One of the items needed to be racked was a cider for her!

Live up to your name, my friend! Be Foxy, as in wily!

Brew on!

 

[davygoat2]

Hi! I'm a new brewer and I figured I'd tell my Tale.
Tugboat is a 5 gal. Brewers Best, Whiskey Barrel Stout.
I let her sit 2 weeks in 6.5gal Primary and then racked to 5gal Secondary
and added the boiled oakchips free floating.
I think racking to a transparent Secondary was the cause of my neurosis.
Watching the Pedicule's metamorphosis on the surface caused me many sleepless nights in front of my terminal,pondering through images,infections and camden/sulfites. I would have been much more stable having less headspace in the Carboy "IE: filled to the Neck" or left it in Primary but added it after the high Krausen was over. I have brewed a IPA previously and added the chips in the beginning.It worked out well for my first brew. Hindsight I would add the chips in a meshbag while still in Primary but after Active. Less clogging in the Thief and Racking Cane. Tugboat has a pleasing aroma and no sours, stuck at 1.022 but it is only a Extract/partial mash.