Using a kegerator for fermentation temp control AND kegs

[marke14]

Hello folks

I am pretty new to home brewing, and I've recently purchased a Kegland kegerator. My main reason for the purchase was to have a way to easily control the temperature of the 5 gallon glass carboy I use for fermentation. I love the kegerator thus far for this purpose, as it has replaced my poor man's water-with-frozen-bottles-and-temp-controller-with-fan setup.

I am about to purchase some 5-gallon Corny kegs so I can get into the actual kegging of my beer.

I am curious, for those of you out there who use their kegerators in this way, what happens in this scenario:

You've brewed & kegged one or more keg's worth of beer, and you have it chilled pretty cold in your kegerator (maybe around 45 degrees F, give or take?). Now, you're brewing a new batch of ale and you need to keep the carboy between 65-70 degrees F for the fermentation.

I guess my questions, related to such a scenario, are, a) will the previously kegged beers be affected (in terms of flavor/aroma, carbonation, and shelf life) beyond obviously becoming warm over time, and b) is there anything I need to consider when using my kegerator in this dual-purpose way?

 

[IslandLizard]

Kegged beer needs to be dispensed between 35 and 45F. Maybe as high as 50F is acceptable in some cases.
Lagers fermented between 50 and 56F. Lagered as low as possible, 30-34F preferred, a little higher may work.
Ales fermented at 64-68F, with a little rise toward the end. Cold crashed at 30-34F, like Lagers.

How are you going to both ferment and dispense beers all at one temp?

Get a dedicated fridge or freezer and an Inkbird 306 controller for fermenting. Plenty of used bargains on CL and Restore/Habitat places. Or a fancier one (not necessarily better) for a little more.

 

[marke14]

Hey IL, thanks for the reply. My plan is to NOT invest in additional gear at this time. I simply can't have a separate chiller for the fermentation right now. Given that, what do you think?

Otherwise, I have to only have 1 keg at a time, fully drain it, then and only then brew another batch. See my conundrum here?

 

[IslandLizard]

There are many brewers who brew a batch, using their kegerator as a temp controlled ferm chamber, then transfer the beer to a keg for conditioning, carbonation, and dispensing. Adjust your kegerator's temp controller/thermostat to the temp suitable for its intended function at the time.

You can ferment most ales in cooler areas with or without help of a swamp cooler. I often put 1 or 2 brew buckets inside a large Igloo beverage cooler, halfway filled with cold water, placed in my lower level bathroom that stays around 66-72F year round. A few frozen water bottles once or twice a day keeps the water jacket and fermenters perfectly at 66-68F. I wrap a sleeping bag around the top to keep the cold in. A large plastic storage tote, rope tub, etc. work just as well.

That way you can ferment your next batch while enjoying cold beer from your kegerator. When the keg kicks, clean it, transfer your new batch of beer to it, force carbonate, place in kegerator and a day or 2 later you're back in business.

 

[marke14]

Thanks again for the reply!

The other thing I want to mention is that I went all out and bought a 3-tap kegerator. So potentially we are talking 3 kegs worth of beer in there, eventually, at any given time.

Recognizing that in that scenario, I may not have room for the carboy. Assuming I had one or two kegs in there, and I wanted to put the carboy in, would the beer in the kegs be damaged by having to live at 65-70 degrees F for a couple of weeks while my batch ferments? I could always bottle up a couple of bottles of beer from the taps so I could still put those in our kitchen refrigerator during the fermentation.

Would the beer in the kegs be ruined by them raising up to ale fermentation temperatures for two weeks, then dropping back down to 35-45 for regular dispensing again?

 

[IslandLizard]

No, generally kegs of beer don't get damaged, ruined, or even harmed by storing or keeping at 65-70F for a few weeks unless you've got an infection in it. But they may (no, they will) change differently over time compared to kegs that are kept cold(er). Warmer temps speed up (bio)chemical processes, and not all at the same rate. In hoppier beers storing at higher temps will affect hop aromas and flavors negatively.

Many brewers condition or age certain beers at cellar temps (~50-55F) after active fermentation has finished. Other beers benefit from somewhat higher temps (55-60F). Even when beer is transferred to a keg, it still contains a few billion yeast cells. They'll go dormant at lower temps, depending on the strain. Higher temps keep them more active, so they change the character of beer faster.

I brewed a Pumpkin ale that I kept in a keg in my utility room (~65F) for almost a year, under 12 psi pressure. I took small samples over time to check on change and progress, and after that year it was perfect, so much better than 3-6 weeks after brewing!

Warmer kegs will give you foamier pours; reducing pressure to combat the foaming will give you under-carbonated beer. There's a fine balance between temperature, pressure, and serving line length (back pressure). Flow control taps will help combat some of the foaming, but their range is limited. Colder beers are just easier to pour perfectly than warmer ones.
http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

After your fermentations are complete, when you lower the kegerator to serving temps again, CO2 in the keg headspaces needs to be reabsorbed into the beer, that takes a few days. But may take a week (or 2) if pressures were dropped to serve the beer at room temps without excessive foaming. You could keep the higher pressure at ferm temps, but you'd need much longer and/or narrower lines between kegs and taps (per Solty).

My advice is to get a) more kegs and b) a dedicated ferm fridge or rig up a ferm "chamber" of some sort, so you can properly serve beer from your kegerator, while you properly ferment new beer to replace kegs as they kick.

Besides, are you sure a carboy will fit in your kegerator with 2 kegs in it already?

 

[marke14]

I wonder if I could put a chest freezer in my storage shed (not air conditioned and blazing hot in the summer ...) w/ the Inkbird. Do you think a standard "civilian" chest freezer is up to the challenge? I looked and they are quite affordable, both used and new.

If I can cram it into our outside storage, I might be able to "get away with it", domestically speaking. ;-)

 

[marke14]

Besides, are you sure a carboy will fit in your kegerator with 2 kegs in it already?

No, I am not sure ...

 

[IslandLizard]

I wonder if I could put a chest freezer in my storage shed (not air conditioned and blazing hot in the summer ...) w/ the Inkbird. Do you think a standard "civilian" chest freezer is up to the challenge? I looked and they are quite affordable, both used and new.

If I can cram it into our outside storage, I might be able to "get away with it", domestically speaking. ;-)

It may work, but not very efficiently.

 

[marke14]

Yeah, that was my conclusion as well. If anyone here has any experience with that please do tell.

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

I wonder if I could put a chest freezer in my storage shed (not air conditioned and blazing hot in the summer ...) w/ the Inkbird. Do you think a standard "civilian" chest freezer is up to the challenge? I looked and they are quite affordable, both used and new.

If I can cram it into our outside storage, I might be able to "get away with it", domestically speaking. ;-)

I use a used chest freezer as a keezer, and it's currently outside under a woodshed. No problem maintaining temp in hot and humid Ohio. If it were me, i'd install a thermostat controlled exhaust fan in the shed to help. Nothing huge, just a way to pull out some hot air.

 

[marke14]

Thanks Keith. I may give that a try. I guess the other things to consider are that a) it is not blazing hot (i.e. summer time) year-round (I live in L.A.), and b) I'd only have to have the chest freezer running when I am actually fermenting a batch.

Good food for thought, thanks.

I suppose that if I were to stay with the kegerator only, I could probably live without the kegged beer for a 2 week period while another batch ferments at the higher temperature, especially if I bottle up some from the kegs beforehand.

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

I’d find a cheap dorm fridge on marketplace for a single carboy for like $50 before I’d sacrifice the kegerator.

 

[marke14]

You think one of those cheapie dorm fridges is up to the summer heat challenge? I guess it only has to maintain @ 65 degrees F for most ale yeasts. Lagers might have to be more of a late fall/winter proposition.

 

[IslandLizard]

You think one of those cheapie dorm fridges is up to the summer heat challenge? I guess it only has to maintain @ 65 degrees F for most ale yeasts. Lagers might have to be more of a late fall/winter proposition.

A cheap small dorm fridge in the hot summer storage shed won't cut it. They have very low cooling capacity. One of my friends has one he cannot get it to cold crash/lager inside his garage, the fridge bottoms out around 45F, that's not even in summer.

Capability to cold crash is one of the bonuses of having a dedicated ferm chamber. Everything settles leaving clear beer on top, ready for kegging. Using some gelatin speeds that up even more.
Now a freezer set at 62-68F in the shed should do fine, just not most efficiently given the 50F+ temp gradient. Worse when cold crashing at 32F.

Be careful when cold crashing in glass carboys that they don't freeze up due to a badly placed probe, an unintended controller "offset" or some other problem.

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

I'd think as long as it wasn't black sitting out in direct sunlight, it should easily hold ferment temps.

edit. I don't cold crash in the fermenter, try to avoid oxidation.

I go straight to keg with closed transfer after about 10 days, let it sit at 68 for a few days to a week, then into the keezer. 1 glass of gunk, by the 3rd or 4th glass, it's clear. This may change as I'm about to do my first lager soon.

 

[marke14]

So Keith, you cold crash in the keg then is that right?

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

So Keith, you cold crash in the keg then is that right?

Essentially, yes. Just don't want to suck in oxygen while it crashes in the fermenter.

I use a hop spider and let my boil kettle settle after cooling for about 30 min. My yeast cakes sit well below the spigots on my fermenter buckets, so my beer it fairly clean. Mostly just yeast.

First glass from keg is gunk, second is cloudy, by the third it pretty clear. That is if I give it more than a couple days before drinking.

 

[marke14]

And of course dry hopping would be straight into the keg then, right? I understand from the guy I bought my kegs off of, that you can buy a "fermenting top" or lid that has a hole drilled for a bung, through which you can pass the airlock. Presumably you could dry hop with a mesh bag to help reduce dry hop trub.

 

[SW Ohio Keith]

And of course dry hopping would be straight into the keg then, right? I understand from the guy I bought my kegs off of, that you can buy a "fermenting top" or lid that has a hole drilled for a bung, through which you can pass the airlock. Presumably you could dry hop with a mesh bag to help reduce dry hop trub.

Well, I've never dry hopped. If I ever do, I'll do it in the primary.

 

[marke14]

Update ... yeah I bought a chest freezer, and have it hooked up to an Inkbird. I've got a one-gallon batch of cream ale going in there at the moment.

In for a penny, in for a pound, am I right?

 

[firerat]

I wonder if I could put a chest freezer in my storage shed (not air conditioned and blazing hot in the summer ...) w/ the Inkbird. Do you think a standard "civilian" chest freezer is up to the challenge? I looked and they are quite affordable, both used and new.

I live in south Florida where it's currently 98F and I have a chest freezer in my utility closet / brewery that can easily get 110f plus and have had zero issue maintaining temps with an ink bird.

It's fine at all temps. I've even accidentally pulled the probe out and it got down to -10F with no issues.

A dorm fridge may struggle getting colder than the 50's.

 

[firerat]

And of course dry hopping would be straight into the keg then, right? I understand from the guy I bought my kegs off of, that you can buy a "fermenting top" or lid that has a hole drilled for a bung, through which you can pass the airlock. Presumably you could dry hop with a mesh bag to help reduce dry hop trub.

You don't need a fermenting top. Just put a gas coupler with a tube going into a bottle with starsan in it.

I use kegs as primaries all the time.

That's what I do. I personally prefer 4 gallon batches though as while 5 gallons will fit in there, the little gas dip tube can get messy with the krausen. I like a bit more head space.

And you certainly can dry hop in the keg. Go to home depot and get paint strainer bags. The 1 gallon. Put you hops in there with something to weight the bag down like a shot glass. Tie the bag with fishing line and apply the top and tie off the bag.

Easy peasy and cheap.

 

[marke14]

You don't need a fermenting top. Just put a gas coupler with a tube going into a bottle with starsan in it.

I use kegs as primaries all the time.

That's what I do. I personally prefer 4 gallon batches though as while 5 gallons will fit in there, the little gas dip tube can get messy with the krausen. I like a bit more head space.

And you certainly can dry hop in the keg. Go to home depot and get paint strainer bags. The 1 gallon. Put you hops in there with something to weight the bag down like a shot glass. Tie the bag with fishing line and apply the top and tie off the bag.

Easy peasy and cheap.

Good stuff, thank you for the suggestions Firerat.

 

[bleme]

I have a small chest freezer on my back porch that keeps everything FROZEN when it is 110F out there. It wouldn't have any problem keeping fermentation temps.

I actually got that freezer for fermenting, but when I came back from Alaska with over 100 lbs of salmon and halibut, it got repurposed and the fermenting was moved into an inside dorm fridge.