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Us-05 pitched at 59f

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Here is a good, relatively recent survey article on yeast stress factors that has references that you can check for more information.

Nutshell version: stress factors of all types affect yeast healthy and viability. The drying process introduces yeast stressors that should be removed from the cell upon rehydration; if these stressors are not removed, viability will be reduced. The medium in which yeast are rehydrated has a direct effect on how well the yeast remove this stressor. Furthermore, just after rehydration, the yeast are like Han Solo getting out of carbonite; they can't sense very well so they cannot tell the difference between toxic and non-toxic material in the medium (see here). Thus, water is an obvious choice for rehydration, and experimentally, water has been shown to be a much better medium for this than wort.

yeah yeah, some scientist in a lab proves its true but this homebrew so we should all relax, not worry and drink some. These guys also experimented and didn't find much difference between sprinkle vs rehydration:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2011 (search "rehydration") and here http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/a/e/1ae...25768480&hwt=d42cb86c71826349afb787d19df12215

If you are new to yeast handling or have questionable sanitization issues, you are much better off just sprinkling. Sprinkle on a second pack if you are concerned. If you aren't new and are so concerned about perfect yeast health, then why are you using dry yeast?
 
yeah yeah, some scientist in a lab proves its true but this homebrew so we should all relax, not worry and drink some. These guys also experimented and didn't find much difference between sprinkle vs rehydration:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2011 (search "rehydration") and here http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/a/e/1ae...25768480&hwt=d42cb86c71826349afb787d19df12215

If you are new to yeast handling or have questionable sanitization issues, you are much better off just sprinkling. Sprinkle on a second pack if you are concerned. If you aren't new and are so concerned about perfect yeast health, then why are you using dry yeast?

To your first point: I'm not sure this answers the poster's question, as the poster was asking why yeast have been shown to be much less viable when rehydrated in wort as opposed to water. I did not listen to the podcast you posted, but the guy Sean Terrill that it references is actually the guy who did the experiment that I linked in my original post, that experimentally showed viability was reduced. This result has been repeated in different lab environments, and is well known.

It seems that you are arguing the point that good beer *can* be made without rehydrating, as that's the thesis of the article you have referenced. I agree with your point, as fermentation quality is much more correlated with yeast pitch rate and fermentation temperature than whether or not one hydrates dry yeast in water or wort. As you said above, yes, if your yeast has 50% less viability when pitched into wort, you can just double up. True, but why be so inefficient? Why spend twice the amount of money on to hit an optimal pitch rate when you can spend 2 minutes re-hydrating a package of yeast while you're chilling your batch?

As to the article you referenced: while I appreciate the experiment, apparent degree of attenuation is only one piece of the story from a quantitative standpoint. I think for a quantitative analysis to be convincing here, you would need to measure the amount of a number of relevant flavor compounds in each beer (e.g. esters, diacetyl, etc.). Further, 12 "average" tasters trying the two beers side-by-side and indicating their "preference" is not very convincing as a final result. "Preference" doesn't matter here; the author himself said that his perception is that the non-water-rehydrated beers were fruitier. I think better tasters (e.g. BJCP certified/national/master level judges) would help the qualitative/perceptual part of the story, as they could specifically identify differences between the products. To me, what is more convincing is the academic literature I referenced.

As to your second point which was "why would an advanced brewer use dry yeast?", dry yeast offers a number of advantages over liquid yeast. First and foremost it has a much longer shelf life if stored properly, but I think you'll more commonly hear homebrewers talk about the cost effectiveness of dry yeast. For instance, a sachet of US-05 contains about twice as many cells as a vial of WLP001 at a little more than half the cost. Those, to me, are the primary reasons to use dry yeast. Liquid yeast is also great, and has its own advantages, so both are very reasonable to use at both the homebrew and professional levels.
 
To your first point: I'm not sure this answers the poster's question, as the poster was asking why yeast have been shown to be much less viable when rehydrated in wort as opposed to water. I did not listen to the podcast you posted, but the guy Sean Terrill that it references is actually the guy who did the experiment that I linked in my original post, that experimentally showed viability was reduced. This result has been repeated in different lab environments, and is well known.

It seems that you are arguing the point that good beer *can* be made without rehydrating, as that's the thesis of the article you have referenced. I agree with your point, as fermentation quality is much more correlated with yeast pitch rate and fermentation temperature than whether or not one hydrates dry yeast in water or wort. As you said above, yes, if your yeast has 50% less viability when pitched into wort, you can just double up. True, but why be so inefficient? Why spend twice the amount of money on to hit an optimal pitch rate when you can spend 2 minutes re-hydrating a package of yeast while you're chilling your batch?

As to the article you referenced: while I appreciate the experiment, apparent degree of attenuation is only one piece of the story from a quantitative standpoint. I think for a quantitative analysis to be convincing here, you would need to measure the amount of a number of relevant flavor compounds in each beer (e.g. esters, diacetyl, etc.). Further, 12 "average" tasters trying the two beers side-by-side and indicating their "preference" is not very convincing as a final result. "Preference" doesn't matter here; the author himself said that his perception is that the non-water-rehydrated beers were fruitier. I think better tasters (e.g. BJCP certified/national/master level judges) would help the qualitative/perceptual part of the story, as they could specifically identify differences between the products. To me, what is more convincing is the academic literature I referenced.

As to your second point which was "why would an advanced brewer use dry yeast?", dry yeast offers a number of advantages over liquid yeast. First and foremost it has a much longer shelf life if stored properly, but I think you'll more commonly hear homebrewers talk about the cost effectiveness of dry yeast. For instance, a sachet of US-05 contains about twice as many cells as a vial of WLP001 at a little more than half the cost. Those, to me, are the primary reasons to use dry yeast. Liquid yeast is also great, and has its own advantages, so both are very reasonable to use at both the homebrew and professional levels.

I don't disagree with most of what your wrote. I understand the appeal of dry yeast. I don't understand why anyone bothers with wy1056 or wy2124 when there are near perfect dry yeast equivalents available for half the cost. At the local store a pack of wy1056 is $8.50 but US05 is $3.95. I pitched 3 packs into a RIS (all properly rehydrated - if you are only taking 2 minutes to rehydrate, you are doing it wrong and might as well just sprinkle). If I'm in a hurry, just brewing with leftovers, or forgot to preboil some water for rehydrating, I'll just sprinkle. I've never noticed a difference that could be attributed to underpitching. But none of the brewers I know who take yeast really seriously will touch dried yeast.

My biggest issues with the lab experiments is extrapolating the results to homebrew. There is way too many variables that are impossible to lock down on a small homebrew scale beer. I believe the "half the yeast die when hitting wort vs water" but dispute that it will necessarily have a perceivable detrimental effect on your beer. Yes, attenuation is only a small part of the picture but it is the easiest to quantify and relevant to the experiment as poor attenuation is often the outcome of underpitching. And on the subject of underpitching, everyone always cites Mr Malty for their numbers but he recommends a far bigger pitch than any of the yeast manufacturers. That probably is a big part of the reason that you can make decent beer with half the yeast recommended by the pitching rate calculators. Maybe its a decent guide but it is far from science (Why would hefeweizen yeast need the exact same pitch as and English ale yeast? Why would their viability drop off at exactly the same rate?).
 
I pitched WLP001 at 59 a few days ago. Ambient temp in the room is 61. Took a while to start and I didn't use a starter but it was OG 1.044 so I'm not worried. I'll let it roll for a few days then crank up to 71 or 72 to finish.

First time I've pitched and fermented this low with this strain. I'll try to report back, but this beer is meant to be started and finished on the same weekend... First week of March Madness! So... I may forget


**** got weird. Just started a thread about this last night. 91% attenuation and a beer that isn't drinkable at the moment.
 
US-05 (and other Chico strains) sometimes gives unexpectedly high attenuation. I've experienced it a couple times and I know others have as well.
 
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