Us-05 pitched at 59f

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Westermans

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Just brewed a porter last night and used my brand new wort chiller and addition of cold water after boil (doing partial boils on stove) aerated the wort for 15 min with aquarium pump and threw in my us-05 dry right on top of the foam. I forgot to take a temp reading before pitching and noticed the wort was at 59f. Anyone have problems with pitching us-05 on the lowest side of the temp scale? It has risen up to 63 since last night. No activity after 8 hours (I'm not panicking on that yet though).
 
No worries, it's generally better to pitch low and let it rise! I've fermented US-05 below 60 degrees, it does fine at the low end. Depending on your OG rehydrating the yeast might have been a good idea, but it'll turn out fine.
 
US-05 seems pretty tolerant, I brewed an Imperial Wheat IPA on Monday night and it's been fermenting away in a water bath at 55° F. Not terribly vigorous, mind you, and to be honest I'd like to warm it up a little, but I'd rather ferment too cool than too warm. I'm a little interested to see what kind of flavour profile it produces.

EDIT: Oh, and rehydrate your dry yeast. Sprinkling it directly in kills up to half of the cells immediately. You're probably underpitching.
 
it will get going!! I have a batch I pitched Wednesday, same yeast its. sitting at 64 right now and going to town
 
US-05 seems pretty tolerant, I brewed an Imperial Wheat IPA on Monday night and it's been fermenting away in a water bath at 55° F. Not terribly vigorous, mind you, and to be honest I'd like to warm it up a little, but I'd rather ferment too cool than too warm. I'm a little interested to see what kind of flavour profile it produces.

EDIT: Oh, and rehydrate your dry yeast. Sprinkling it directly in kills up to half of the cells immediately. You're probably underpitching.

Going no esters? I only ask because I've fermented S-05 at 72-74F and it works just fine without being overly estery in that range, though it is cleaner in the low/mid 60's.
 
US-05 seems pretty tolerant, I brewed an Imperial Wheat IPA on Monday night and it's been fermenting away in a water bath at 55° F. Not terribly vigorous, mind you, and to be honest I'd like to warm it up a little, but I'd rather ferment too cool than too warm. I'm a little interested to see what kind of flavour profile it produces.



EDIT: Oh, and rehydrate your dry yeast. Sprinkling it directly in kills up to half of the cells immediately. You're probably underpitching.


Should I re pitch some more yeast? I have another pack. I talked to one of the local brew bun owners and he told me he always throws a pack of dry yeast in.
 
What point do you decide to throw more in? People always freak out about it. Fermentation has yet to start.
 
What point do you decide to throw more in? People always freak out about it. Fermentation has yet to start.

You almost certainly do not need to throw more in. I use US05 almost exclusively and at low temperatures it is sometimes slow to get started. Sometimes I don't see krausen forming until 72 hours. My beers are all delicious
 
No need at all to add more yeast. You didn't kill it after all, just made it slightly groggy (no pun intended :drunk:).

When it warms to the low-mid-60's, they'll perk up and do their thing. Personally, I'd rather have a fermentation not take off like gangbusters, but start off subtly around 10-18 hours after pitching with peak activity days 2-4.

Ideal temp for US-05 is 65*F, letting it rise to around 68*F after activity starts to drop off.
 
Pitched mine (rehydrated) at 55, today was rocking to the point where I had to remove the insulation as it got to 70F. I too was a bit worried, but seemed fine to me!
 
You almost certainly do not need to throw more in. I use US05 almost exclusively and at low temperatures it is sometimes slow to get started. Sometimes I don't see krausen forming until 72 hours. My beers are all delicious

Yep. No worries. I have a bunch of 1 gallon test batches in the garage, all US05. With the weather being as 'up and down' as it has been, the temp out there fluctuates between 55 and 65 easily. I put them out there with this yeast and not worry about it.
 
Do you like peach flavor?




I guess you'll find out...

I keep reading this?? Care to elaborate? I'm a rookie but tend to ferment cool ( basement of a century home in northern Ohio) and haven't run into this.... Even in light clean recipes like centennial blonde and simple american wheats. Right now basement is low to mid 50's and I just park the fermentors up off the floor and wrap with some towels or a jacket....
 
Do you like peach flavor?




I guess you'll find out...

I keep reading this?? Care to elaborate? I'm a rookie but tend to ferment cool ( basement of a century home in northern Ohio) and haven't run into this.... Even in light clean recipes like centennial blonde and simple american wheats. Right now basement is low to mid 50's - in the warmer room- and I just park the fermentors up off the floor and wrap with some towels or a jacket....
 
Do you like peach flavor?




I guess you'll find out...

I keep reading this?? Care to elaborate? I'm a rookie but tend to ferment cool ( basement of a century home in northern Ohio) and haven't run into this.... Even in light clean recipes like centennial blonde and simple american wheats. Right now basement is low to mid 50's - in the warmer room- and I just park the fermentors up off the floor and wrap with some towels or a jacket....
 
I keep reading this?? Care to elaborate? I'm a rookie but tend to ferment cool ( basement of a century home in northern Ohio) and haven't run into this.... Even in light clean recipes like centennial blonde and simple american wheats. Right now basement is low to mid 50's - in the warmer room- and I just park the fermentors up off the floor and wrap with some towels or a jacket....

I start most of my ferments around 60F and I've tasted the dreaded US-05 peach "ester" when trying yeasty gravity samples, but its always been gone by the time I serve it. Maybe it sticks around when bottle conditioning but it doesn't survive a diacetyl rest, kegging, fining and a couple of weeks in the fridge.
 
Doesnt Notty produce the "peach" esters as well? I have a Marris Otter smash fermenting at 62f and took gravity reading yesterday and opened lid took a pleasant whiff of peach..smelled awesome
 
I've used 05 in two 5 gal. batches of dead ringer. First one was at 60 and had the peach taste but it was gone by week 2 after bottling. Second batch I kept at 62 or so. It had no peach.
Both batches started slow but attenuated very well. Both were maybe the best beers I've made in the year or so that I've been brewing.
 
Oh, and reportedly at Sierra Nevada they even can brew a lager - like beer in the 50's with the Chico strain

I hadn't heard that with Chico. I know for sure that you can do it with Nottingham in the mid-50's.
 
I pitched WLP001 at 59 a few days ago. Ambient temp in the room is 61. Took a while to start and I didn't use a starter but it was OG 1.044 so I'm not worried. I'll let it roll for a few days then crank up to 71 or 72 to finish.

First time I've pitched and fermented this low with this strain. I'll try to report back, but this beer is meant to be started and finished on the same weekend... First week of March Madness! So... I may forget
 
Just took a gravity reading and had my first sample. OG 1.050 gravity check 1.014. Right in line from the recipe. Tasted great too. Didn't notice any peach flavors. Can't wait to keg in the next few days.
 
EDIT: Oh, and rehydrate your dry yeast. Sprinkling it directly in kills up to half of the cells immediately. You're probably underpitching.

Why does sprinkling dry yeast directly in to wort kill so many cells, while sprinkling it into some lightly-sugared water does not? That seems odd
 
Why does sprinkling dry yeast directly in to wort kill so many cells, while sprinkling it into some lightly-sugared water does not? That seems odd

They're unable to regulate the sugars passing across the membrane or something until they've had a chance to reconstitute. It's explained in the book "Yeast," I'm not a microbiologist. :) Oh, and don't put sugar in the water either. Just plain-jane tap water.
 
Why does sprinkling dry yeast directly in to wort kill so many cells, while sprinkling it into some lightly-sugared water does not? That seems odd

Here is a good, relatively recent survey article on yeast stress factors that has references that you can check for more information.

Nutshell version: stress factors of all types affect yeast healthy and viability. The drying process introduces yeast stressors that should be removed from the cell upon rehydration; if these stressors are not removed, viability will be reduced. The medium in which yeast are rehydrated has a direct effect on how well the yeast remove this stressor. Furthermore, just after rehydration, the yeast are like Han Solo getting out of carbonite; they can't sense very well so they cannot tell the difference between toxic and non-toxic material in the medium (see here). Thus, water is an obvious choice for rehydration, and experimentally, water has been shown to be a much better medium for this than wort.
 
From the Fermentis website for US-05 http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf "Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F)." The few times I pitched it dry, I made sure the wort was at least 68F, so I don't have experience to draw from. Generally, the posts here are about pitching rehydrated yeast at cooler temps. Does anybody have experience or info confirming that pitching dry at the cooler temps is OK?
 
Here is a good, relatively recent survey article on yeast stress factors that has references that you can check for more information.

Nutshell version: stress factors of all types affect yeast healthy and viability. The drying process introduces yeast stressors that should be removed from the cell upon rehydration; if these stressors are not removed, viability will be reduced. The medium in which yeast are rehydrated has a direct effect on how well the yeast remove this stressor. Furthermore, just after rehydration, the yeast are like Han Solo getting out of carbonite; they can't sense very well so they cannot tell the difference between toxic and non-toxic material in the medium (see here). Thus, water is an obvious choice for rehydration, and experimentally, water has been shown to be a much better medium for this than wort.

yeah yeah, some scientist in a lab proves its true but this homebrew so we should all relax, not worry and drink some. These guys also experimented and didn't find much difference between sprinkle vs rehydration:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2011 (search "rehydration") and here http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/a/e/1ae...25768480&hwt=d42cb86c71826349afb787d19df12215

If you are new to yeast handling or have questionable sanitization issues, you are much better off just sprinkling. Sprinkle on a second pack if you are concerned. If you aren't new and are so concerned about perfect yeast health, then why are you using dry yeast?
 
yeah yeah, some scientist in a lab proves its true but this homebrew so we should all relax, not worry and drink some. These guys also experimented and didn't find much difference between sprinkle vs rehydration:
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2011 (search "rehydration") and here http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/a/e/1ae...25768480&hwt=d42cb86c71826349afb787d19df12215

If you are new to yeast handling or have questionable sanitization issues, you are much better off just sprinkling. Sprinkle on a second pack if you are concerned. If you aren't new and are so concerned about perfect yeast health, then why are you using dry yeast?

To your first point: I'm not sure this answers the poster's question, as the poster was asking why yeast have been shown to be much less viable when rehydrated in wort as opposed to water. I did not listen to the podcast you posted, but the guy Sean Terrill that it references is actually the guy who did the experiment that I linked in my original post, that experimentally showed viability was reduced. This result has been repeated in different lab environments, and is well known.

It seems that you are arguing the point that good beer *can* be made without rehydrating, as that's the thesis of the article you have referenced. I agree with your point, as fermentation quality is much more correlated with yeast pitch rate and fermentation temperature than whether or not one hydrates dry yeast in water or wort. As you said above, yes, if your yeast has 50% less viability when pitched into wort, you can just double up. True, but why be so inefficient? Why spend twice the amount of money on to hit an optimal pitch rate when you can spend 2 minutes re-hydrating a package of yeast while you're chilling your batch?

As to the article you referenced: while I appreciate the experiment, apparent degree of attenuation is only one piece of the story from a quantitative standpoint. I think for a quantitative analysis to be convincing here, you would need to measure the amount of a number of relevant flavor compounds in each beer (e.g. esters, diacetyl, etc.). Further, 12 "average" tasters trying the two beers side-by-side and indicating their "preference" is not very convincing as a final result. "Preference" doesn't matter here; the author himself said that his perception is that the non-water-rehydrated beers were fruitier. I think better tasters (e.g. BJCP certified/national/master level judges) would help the qualitative/perceptual part of the story, as they could specifically identify differences between the products. To me, what is more convincing is the academic literature I referenced.

As to your second point which was "why would an advanced brewer use dry yeast?", dry yeast offers a number of advantages over liquid yeast. First and foremost it has a much longer shelf life if stored properly, but I think you'll more commonly hear homebrewers talk about the cost effectiveness of dry yeast. For instance, a sachet of US-05 contains about twice as many cells as a vial of WLP001 at a little more than half the cost. Those, to me, are the primary reasons to use dry yeast. Liquid yeast is also great, and has its own advantages, so both are very reasonable to use at both the homebrew and professional levels.
 
To your first point: I'm not sure this answers the poster's question, as the poster was asking why yeast have been shown to be much less viable when rehydrated in wort as opposed to water. I did not listen to the podcast you posted, but the guy Sean Terrill that it references is actually the guy who did the experiment that I linked in my original post, that experimentally showed viability was reduced. This result has been repeated in different lab environments, and is well known.

It seems that you are arguing the point that good beer *can* be made without rehydrating, as that's the thesis of the article you have referenced. I agree with your point, as fermentation quality is much more correlated with yeast pitch rate and fermentation temperature than whether or not one hydrates dry yeast in water or wort. As you said above, yes, if your yeast has 50% less viability when pitched into wort, you can just double up. True, but why be so inefficient? Why spend twice the amount of money on to hit an optimal pitch rate when you can spend 2 minutes re-hydrating a package of yeast while you're chilling your batch?

As to the article you referenced: while I appreciate the experiment, apparent degree of attenuation is only one piece of the story from a quantitative standpoint. I think for a quantitative analysis to be convincing here, you would need to measure the amount of a number of relevant flavor compounds in each beer (e.g. esters, diacetyl, etc.). Further, 12 "average" tasters trying the two beers side-by-side and indicating their "preference" is not very convincing as a final result. "Preference" doesn't matter here; the author himself said that his perception is that the non-water-rehydrated beers were fruitier. I think better tasters (e.g. BJCP certified/national/master level judges) would help the qualitative/perceptual part of the story, as they could specifically identify differences between the products. To me, what is more convincing is the academic literature I referenced.

As to your second point which was "why would an advanced brewer use dry yeast?", dry yeast offers a number of advantages over liquid yeast. First and foremost it has a much longer shelf life if stored properly, but I think you'll more commonly hear homebrewers talk about the cost effectiveness of dry yeast. For instance, a sachet of US-05 contains about twice as many cells as a vial of WLP001 at a little more than half the cost. Those, to me, are the primary reasons to use dry yeast. Liquid yeast is also great, and has its own advantages, so both are very reasonable to use at both the homebrew and professional levels.

I don't disagree with most of what your wrote. I understand the appeal of dry yeast. I don't understand why anyone bothers with wy1056 or wy2124 when there are near perfect dry yeast equivalents available for half the cost. At the local store a pack of wy1056 is $8.50 but US05 is $3.95. I pitched 3 packs into a RIS (all properly rehydrated - if you are only taking 2 minutes to rehydrate, you are doing it wrong and might as well just sprinkle). If I'm in a hurry, just brewing with leftovers, or forgot to preboil some water for rehydrating, I'll just sprinkle. I've never noticed a difference that could be attributed to underpitching. But none of the brewers I know who take yeast really seriously will touch dried yeast.

My biggest issues with the lab experiments is extrapolating the results to homebrew. There is way too many variables that are impossible to lock down on a small homebrew scale beer. I believe the "half the yeast die when hitting wort vs water" but dispute that it will necessarily have a perceivable detrimental effect on your beer. Yes, attenuation is only a small part of the picture but it is the easiest to quantify and relevant to the experiment as poor attenuation is often the outcome of underpitching. And on the subject of underpitching, everyone always cites Mr Malty for their numbers but he recommends a far bigger pitch than any of the yeast manufacturers. That probably is a big part of the reason that you can make decent beer with half the yeast recommended by the pitching rate calculators. Maybe its a decent guide but it is far from science (Why would hefeweizen yeast need the exact same pitch as and English ale yeast? Why would their viability drop off at exactly the same rate?).
 
I pitched WLP001 at 59 a few days ago. Ambient temp in the room is 61. Took a while to start and I didn't use a starter but it was OG 1.044 so I'm not worried. I'll let it roll for a few days then crank up to 71 or 72 to finish.

First time I've pitched and fermented this low with this strain. I'll try to report back, but this beer is meant to be started and finished on the same weekend... First week of March Madness! So... I may forget


**** got weird. Just started a thread about this last night. 91% attenuation and a beer that isn't drinkable at the moment.
 
US-05 (and other Chico strains) sometimes gives unexpectedly high attenuation. I've experienced it a couple times and I know others have as well.
 
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