US-05 No Krausen, slow start

[KarmaCitra]

I know, I know, there are plenty of threads on this situation, but these are all unique, right?

Brew day was 10am on Friday (~45 hours since I pitched)

I pitched a rehydrated pack of US-05 (100ml, ~100°, rest for 15-20 mins. It was goopy before I pitched, as expected). My OG was 1.045, and I just checked it, down to 1.035. Fermentation temp is at 62-64°.

I've typically aerated by violently pouring the wort from the kettle into the bucket, which has worked in the past. Did the same here From what I understand, aeration isn't as important with dry yeast (or so I am told).

My question is, my experience with US-05 is that it typically takes off within 24 hours (not even going to mention airlock activity ) any thoughts as to why no visible Krausen has formed and/or has dropped so quickly? I see a small ring that could be signs of Krausen, but not entirely positive. Maybe you can see in the attached picture.

My only guess is that on Saturday AM, I noticed that my brewbelt wasn't working, so the chamber may have gotten down to ~58-60 at some point, but it says on the packet that these are still safe temps.

Sorry for the long winded post. I know, don't worry it's not to 72 hours, but I'm just a bit concerned.

View attachment 1454850692289.jpg

 

[govner1]

First, no need to aerate/oxygenate a dry yeast. Second, 58°-60° is pretty low. Get your temp up to 66°-68° and the yeast should pick up activity. I'd raise it slowly rather than shock it by too much of a rise all at once.
Patience.

 

[EcuPirate07]

Have you tasted it? I can't offer anything better than what govner said but the only time I had the same situation as you, my beer was infected/stressed-old yeast and I had to dump it. But you used rehydrated and mine was reharvested yeast. I guess I'm saying a quick taste could rule out some other options other than you are just fermenting too low.

 

[IslandLizard]

First, no need to aerate/oxygenate a dry yeast. Second, 58°-60° is pretty low. Get your temp up to 66°-68° and the yeast should pick up activity. I'd raise it slowly rather than shock it by too much of a rise all at once.
Patience.

+1^

Third, stop opening your buckets! You're soliciting infections.

Then when you DO need to lift the lid, thoroughly clean and sanitize the lid/rim area before opening. And immediately wipe the rim off with a Starsan soaked washcloth.

 

[KarmaCitra]

+1^

Third, stop opening your buckets! You're soliciting infections.

Then when you DO need to lift the lid, thoroughly clean and sanitize the lid/rim area before opening. And immediately wipe the rim off with a Starsan soaked washcloth.

I make it a point not to open the buckets at all, but since I can't see inside without doing so, I had to. Call it curiosity, I suppose. I did spray everything down with starsan, including my hands. I'm a bit of a freak with sanitation!

 

[KarmaCitra]

First, no need to aerate/oxygenate a dry yeast. Second, 58°-60° is pretty low. Get your temp up to 66°-68° and the yeast should pick up activity. I'd raise it slowly rather than shock it by too much of a rise all at once.
Patience.

I think it only dropped that low for a short period of time. My target ferm temp is 64° by design. Won't heating it up possibly create off flavors?

 

[KarmaCitra]

Based on the gravity reading of 1.035, something IS happening. I guess I'm just worried about the speed/lack of visible activity.

 

[IslandLizard]

I make it a point not to open the buckets at all, but since I can't see inside without doing so, I had to. Call it curiosity, I suppose. I did spray everything down with starsan, including my hands. I'm a bit of a freak with sanitation!

Peek down the grommet hole with a strong (flash)light from the side. You can siphon beer out through that hole as well, to take samples. 1/4" OD tubing and a good suck. Just don't let it flow back! Or use a turkey baster or large syringe.

I think it only dropped that low for a short period of time. My target ferm temp is 64° by design. Won't heating it up possibly create off flavors?

62-64F is good for US-05. But it really slows down when it's lower than that. Warm it up to 64 and it should resume.

 

[eadavis80]

If you have a drop in gravity, it's fermenting. Like others said, it was probably a little cool for a bit, but once it's in the 63-67 range, it should pick up. Big Mouth Bubblers help alleviate fermentation anxiety. SEEING yeasties do their thing (even if the airlock doesn't move) or if it's hard to see a krausen ring (even with a flashlight) helps me calm my nerves in those first few days post-pitch. And, for what it's worth, I always aerate regardless of whether I pitch dry or liquid yeast. I would assume yeast like O2 regardless. It might be MORE critical on the liquid yeasts, but I don't see how it could be a bad thing to do it when you pitch a packet of dry (even if it's rehydrated). Good luck with this batch.

 

[IslandLizard]

Based on the gravity reading of 1.035, something IS happening. I guess I'm just worried about the speed/lack of visible activity.

I've had many beers in buckets ferment "silently," without any or much airlock activity. After 6 days they were close to FG already.

When in doubt, siphon some beer out through the grommet hole and check.

Now other beers would blow off like a volcano at the same temps.

 

[KarmaCitra]

I've had many beers in buckets ferment "silently," without any or much airlock activity. After 6 days they were close to FG already.

When in doubt, siphon some beer out through the grommet hole and check.

Now other beers would blow off like a volcano at the same temps.

Didnt know that was possible, makes me feel a lot better! I'll just ramp it to 66 and let it ride then. I'll report back!

 

[Aristotelian]

The last time I brewed with US-05 I had a similar experience. Started very slowly with no visible bubbling on the first day. Next morning, still nothing visible. My house is cold in the winter so I was fermenting at right about 60. It did eventually start bubbling on the second day and made a nice Krausen on the third day, although the foam never made it to the blow off tube. Just a slow even bubbling through day 4 or 5. The batch is still conditioning, so I haven't tasted it yet, but it looks like it came out fine. Still, I think I am going to switch back to Nottingham as my preferred ale yeast since I have had better luck with it starting fast and strong.

 

[bebolobo]

OP: what is the lot number, date, and source for the US-05 you used? I found your thread because I'm having a similar issue, which is frustrating, because this is a beer I brewed for the AHA national competition. I've brewed this recipe many times, and I've used US-05 at least a dozen times in the last year without any trouble.

Scenario: 10 gallons of wort in 2 buckets, OG 1.052, Oxygen for 1:30 @ .5 l/m, rehydrated yeast @84F for 20m, 1 packet in each bucket, pitched @ 64F. 24 hours later, no krausen and minimal airlock activity.

Lot: 11224 022 1836 Date: 01/2017 Ordered about a week ago from RiteBrew

If I still don't have active fermentation by tomorrow I'll pitch another packet and see what happens. I've never had US-05 take this long. Maybe a weak lot? Maybe it got below freezing while shipping from WI to NE?

 

[KarmaCitra]

I don't recall the information, and I three the packet away after use. The expiration was mid-late 2016, don't remember the actual month.

 

[LostHopper]

What would be the concern about a slow start?

I kind of like a low and slow fermentation but I'm relatively new at this. The only batch I've had with off flavors was one that started fermentation within 8 hours.

 

[bebolobo]

+36h and there is krausen and airlock activity. It's fine, just a little slower than usual, and yeah, <72h isn't anything to be too worried about. Maybe liquid yeast has spoiled me. Maybe I'm just nervous about this beer turning out perfect. Probably both.

@KarmaCitra: how's yours doing?

@LostHopper: my main concern was if the yeast packet was half dead and therefore under-pitched.

 

[Aristotelian]

What would be the concern about a slow start?

I kind of like a low and slow fermentation but I'm relatively new at this. The only batch I've had with off flavors was one that started fermentation within 8 hours.

The longer it goes without fermentation, the more chance there is of infection. The alcohol from the yeast is what keeps it from getting eaten by mold or vinegar bacteria.

 

[wilserbrewer]

What would be the concern about a slow start?

I kind of like a low and slow fermentation but I'm relatively new at this. The only batch I've had with off flavors was one that started fermentation within 8 hours.

The longer it goes without fermentation, the more chance there is of infection. The alcohol from the yeast is what keeps it from getting eaten by mold or vinegar bacteria.

I don't worry about infection so much, I am more concerned with yeast health. A yeast pitch that takes an excessive amount of time to get started, may likely be stressed and produce off flavors.

To the OP, save a nice amount of the yeast slurry from this batch and pitch it into your next....boom for a nice quick healthy fast ferment.

 

[Mexibilly]

Same thing here, Saturday.
You rehydrated at 100'?
I always rehydrate at ~70.
I checked my rehydration water temp Saturday and thermometer read 70. I thought it was a little quick to have cooled from boil so quickly, but I pitched the yeast. Stirred with the same thermometer and it climbed to 90+.
No obvious activity, no krausen, slight fermentation based on slight pressure in bucket and bubbles from blow off tube when pressure applied to lid.
I assumed immediately that I'd killed the majority of my yeast with the 90+ rehydration water. Getting more yeast tomorrow and keeping fingers crossed.

 

[KarmaCitra]

+36h and there is krausen and airlock activity. It's fine, just a little slower than usual, and yeah, <72h isn't anything to be too worried about. Maybe liquid yeast has spoiled me. Maybe I'm just nervous about this beer turning out perfect. Probably both.

@KarmaCitra: how's yours doing?

@LostHopper: my main concern was if the yeast packet was half dead and therefore under-pitched.

Going to check on it when I get home.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Same thing here, Saturday.
You rehydrated at 100'?
I always rehydrate at ~70.
I checked my rehydration water temp Saturday and thermometer read 70. I thought it was a little quick to have cooled from boil so quickly, but I pitched the yeast. Stirred with the same thermometer and it climbed to 90+.
No obvious activity, no krausen, slight fermentation based on slight pressure in bucket and bubbles from blow off tube when pressure applied to lid.
I assumed immediately that I'd killed the majority of my yeast with the 90+ rehydration water. Getting more yeast tomorrow and keeping fingers crossed.

That's how I have always done it and no issues. I've read several articles that said 90-100 is ideal. Then again, there are others that say differently. Guess it's just another controversial topic!

 

[Mexibilly]

That's how I have always done it and no issues. I've read several articles that said 90-100 is ideal. Then again, there are others that say differently. Guess it's just another controversial topic!

I've never had a batch not take off in 24 hours. This one is going on 48.
If I can find a brew shop on the way to a workshop I'm attending I'll pick up another pack of yeast tomorrow.
Not sure what else to do unless I have some sign of fermentation by tomorrow morning.
I'll read up on rehydration temps and techniques in the meantime

 

[KarmaCitra]

Just checked, still no airlock activity after 72+ hours....I'm tempted to pitch my other packet in, but I'm still holding on the gravity drop from yesterday. Decisions. Decisions.

 

[bebolobo]

At 72 hours, I'd definitely rehydrate another packet and repitch. It can't hurt.

Fermentis says rehydrate at 80F +- 6 degrees, so that's what I shoot for.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Alright, so I just re-pitched another packet. I checked the bucket earlier using a flashlight and I didn't see any krausen. I rehydrated, opened the bucket, and voilà, there is already a krausen layer in there. Because I already rehydrated this packet and didn't want to waste it, I poured it in. From what I've read, it won't hurt anything, might just speed it up. Thoughts?

 

[KarmaCitra]

And I need a better flashlight lol

 

[bebolobo]

Alright, so I just re-pitched another packet. I checked the bucket earlier using a flashlight and I didn't see any krausen. I rehydrated, opened the bucket, and voilà, there is already a krausen layer in there. Because I already rehydrated this packet and didn't want to waste it, I poured it in. From what I've read, it won't hurt anything, might just speed it up. Thoughts?

Good to hear your beer's doing what it should. I'm not sure what the effect of a second pitch will be at this point, but I'm sure you'll end up with beer that finishes out. Just keep your temps where you want them and let it do its thing. Both of mine have a healthy krausen now and they're churning away at +48h. Blame it on the cold, and RDWHAHB.

 

[BrunDog]

No worry to pitch second packet. More yeast = less stress = less esters. That said, your first pitch may end up being fine (I have had slow US-05 starts after a few days), or it may end up with more yeast driven notes, albeit it very slight. It's a clean strain, so my bet it is will be great.

Above someone said no oxygenation needed for dry yeast. That's news to me and does not sound correct. O2 is for cell membranes. Check it: https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

I know Wyeast sells liquid yeast, but the fundamentals are identical.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Thanks guys for all the help. This was quite the ordeal! Pitched that second pack last night. This morning its cranking now as usual. Interested to see how this one turns out!

 

[Rockn_M]

I had the same exact experience. At almost 72 hours on the dot I saw some activity. And now it's been going for almost 8 days. I do ferment on the low side but never had an issue before. We'll see in about a week how it taste.

 

[J-Drew]

Add me to the list for having a similar experience.

I usually use liquid yeast, but this was a quick brew, and with many of the comparisons I've read among the Safale, Wyeast, and White Labs Chico strain claiming the differences to be slight at best, I decided to use the dry yeast.

I ended up pitching colder than I like to (I pitched at 60F) and let it come up to about 63-64F. After 24 hours, I saw a weak bubble from the airlock about every fifteen seconds, and this is far different from my experience with 001 and 1056 (granted, I haven't pitched this cold with 001 and 1056). I bumped up the temperature closer to 68F and went to bed swearing off dry yeast for future brews and thinking, if this doesn't work I'm going to my LHBS and getting a smack pack of 1056 and adding it. Sure enough, when I woke up (at about 36 hours from pitch) the airlock activity had picked up and by 48 hours airlock activity appeared much more "normal." Even though airlock activity was never as intense as I've had with 001 and 1056, it was enough to make me happy and the active fermentation was pretty much done by day 6.

I plan on packaging this in about three days, so I'll see then where it finished and how I think it turned out.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Add me to the list for having a similar experience.

I usually use liquid yeast, but this was a quick brew, and with many of the comparisons I've read among the Safale, Wyeast, and White Labs Chico strain claiming the differences to be slight at best, I decided to use the dry yeast.

I ended up pitching colder than I like to (I pitched at 60F) and let it come up to about 63-64F. After 24 hours, I saw a weak bubble from the airlock about every fifteen seconds, and this is far different from my experience with 001 and 1056 (granted, I haven't pitched this cold with 001 and 1056). I bumped up the temperature closer to 68F and went to bed swearing off dry yeast for future brews and thinking, if this doesn't work I'm going to my LHBS and getting a smack pack of 1056 and adding it. Sure enough, when I woke up (at about 36 hours from pitch) the airlock activity had picked up and by 48 hours airlock activity appeared much more "normal." Even though airlock activity was never as intense as I've had with 001 and 1056, it was enough to make me happy and the active fermentation was pretty much done by day 6.

I plan on packaging this in about three days, so I'll see then where it finished and how I think it turned out.

Let us know how it turns out, I'd be interested to see what happened. This whole thing was an exercise in patience, so lesson learned!

 

[Mexibilly]

Same thing here, Saturday.
You rehydrated at 100'?
I always rehydrate at ~70.
I checked my rehydration water temp Saturday and thermometer read 70. I thought it was a little quick to have cooled from boil so quickly, but I pitched the yeast. Stirred with the same thermometer and it climbed to 90+.
No obvious activity, no krausen, slight fermentation based on slight pressure in bucket and bubbles from blow off tube when pressure applied to lid.
I assumed immediately that I'd killed the majority of my yeast with the 90+ rehydration water. Getting more yeast tomorrow and keeping fingers crossed.

Had every intention of turning the tail end of a business trip today into a search for a pack of S05. Luckily the brew in question was bubbling away at ~2/second this morning. Never had one take 48+ hours to get going, and it might be related to SWMBO rearranging the bedroom so the available fermentor space is next to an exterior wall in winter. Regardless, I'm happy with the intensity of the fermentation at this point (finally).
Side note: parti-gyle ales are a no-brainer for me, if I have the available grains, yeast and hops I'm doing it. But a 75 minute mash then sparge followed by a 60 minute boil while conducting another sparge/mash followed by another boil followed by sanitation and rehydrating and pitching and air locks and blow offs and clean up makes for a long F'n brew day.
Anyway, both fermentors are bubbling happily away.
Time is on my side, yes it is

 

[slym2none]

I have no experience with liquid yeasts, but I do know that Nottingham seems to like to take off at higher temps, but will ferment much lower after it has started. I like to ferment Notty at 60-62° F, and the first few batches, I was pitching into wort that was 62-63°. I had long lag-times doing this. Then I started pitching it into 68-70° wort, saw action in ~12 hours, and then I'd bring my temps down to fermenting temperature.

Maybe something like this would work for -05 as well?

 

[J-Drew]

Let us know how it turns out, I'd be interested to see what happened. This whole thing was an exercise in patience, so lesson learned!

I packaged on day 14. My OG was 1.050 and FG was 1.011 - 1.012ish, which would give me an apparent attenuation around 77%. This is exactly what I was looking for. The beer itself had cleared as expected, and I was really pleased with the way the sample tasted. All in all, I'm very happy with the way the beer has turned out so far. I was just surprised by the apparent lack of activity in the lower sixties since Fermentis's specification sheet lists the low end of ideal at 59F.

 

[KarmaCitra]

Update! I bottled the beer on Friday (1 month in primary) and FG was 1.010. I guess it was just needing that extra push. I'm starting to lean toward a bad packet of yeast. This is the exact reason why I always buy two.

 

[bebolobo]

Mine finished at 1.011 like it was supposed to and it's currently waiting to be judged. Turned out the way it should, with no off-flavors that I can detect, so all was well in the end.

Unless I get a judging sheet back that says otherwise...

 

[J-Drew]

Mine finished at 1.011 like it was supposed to and it's currently waiting to be judged. Turned out the way it should, with no off-flavors that I can detect, so all was well in the end.

Unless I get a judging sheet back that says otherwise...

I had a similar experience (finished where it was supposed to and no off-flavors). I entered this beer in two competitions and shared at a local homebrew club meeting with several members. Nobody mentioned anything about off-flavors from the fermentation.

 

[petrolSpice]

Every time I use US-05 it's slow to start, sometimes 48 hours before any krausen. If I rehydrate in sugar water around 8 hours before pitching it will usually take off within 24 hours.