$upport your local store, until....

[JAReeves]

Columbus, GA. West Georgia Homebrew.

https://www.westgeorgiahomebrew.com/

Uh-oh, you're crossing state lines.

 

[JAReeves]

I'm doing my best to keep my LHBS open, South Bay Brewing Supply, but life is really in the way of brewing atm. Dan also brews for a local brewpub on his day off. Gotta stay in business somehow.

 

[Snuffy]

Uh-oh, you're crossing state lines.

As long as you don't involve under-age girls you should escape the dragnet.

 

[Snuffy]

Ok. Just FYI for anybody looking to get a CO2 tank filled in the Birmingham, AL area. I called around and there are quite a few places that will swap them. Prices vary a lot. I was quoted $32 for a 5 lb swap from Airgas and then $18 for a swap at Gas and Supply - both in Pelham. I'm not trading in my shiny new tank for some grungy old clunker that's been who-knows-where. G&S guy said they filled 'em at the Bham store. I called them and he said they would fill them no problem. Food grade CO2. They are located at 3945 East Lake Blvd ph: 205-841-0713. Over off Tallapoosa behind the airport.

I forgot to ask what it costs to fill, but at this point I'd probably trade a kidney anyway. If it was $18 for a swap in Pelham, I can't imagine it's much more than that. Hope this info is helpful to the local brewing peeps. Maybe everybody already knew this and just weren't coming off with the info. Anyway... if not, now you know.

I just went there and got both my 5 lb and 2.5 lb tanks filled. Total was $16.90 including the 3% fee for using plastic instead of cash.

Kind of a convoluted process. You go into the "showroom" w/o your tanks and pay. They don't like it if you are putting the tanks in the occupied area of a vehicle, so you want to do trunk of the car or back of the truck somehow - at least until you are filled and ready to leave. I was in a cargo van and that seemed to satisfy their safety paranoia somewhat. Then you take your receipt and go thru an automated gate into the yard behind the shop. Stop at the first roll-up door around the back and give the guy your tanks and ticket. He fills them and hands them back all frosty. You gotta drive back out the automatic gate which takes a minute to react when you pull up to it. Not sure if it's actually automatic or if somebody has to notice you want out and hit the button. Watch out for speeding forklifts.

 

[redrocker652002]

I wish I had that option. The only one I can find near me is an Airgas place that only swaps out tanks I think I paid close to 35 to 40 bucks for a 5 gallon tank. I wish I could find a place close that would just refill the one I have. But, I guess that is the best I can do for now.

 

[MaxStout]

I wish I had that option. The only one I can find near me is an Airgas place that only swaps out tanks I think I paid close to 35 to 40 bucks for a 5 gallon tank. I wish I could find a place close that would just refill the one I have. But, I guess that is the best I can do for now.

Kind of like the Blue Rhino propane tank exchange. No way I'm swapping my new 20 lb. tank that came with the new grill for one of theirs. However, I do swap when I have an old tank that just passed its recert date. The guy at Home Despot doesn't look and doesn't care, and Blue Rhino refurbs those anyway.

 

[redrocker652002]

Kind of like the Blue Rhino propane tank exchange. No way I'm swapping my new 20 lb. tank that came with the new grill for one of theirs. However, I do swap when I have an old tank that just passed its recert date. The guy at Home Despot doesn't look and doesn't care, and Blue Rhino refurbs those anyway.

For propane the local gas station fills your existing tank. I like that because I always seem to have a little left and feel stupid giving it to them when I swap out tanks. I need to see if I can find a place close by to fill CO2 instead of just do a swap.

 

[rlrohan]

Kind of like the Blue Rhino propane tank exchange. No way I'm swapping my new 20 lb. tank that came with the new grill for one of theirs. However, I do swap when I have an old tank that just passed its recert date. The guy at Home Despot doesn't look and doesn't care, and Blue Rhino refurbs those anyway.

I read somewhere that the propane tank exchange places only partially fill the tanks anyway. To like 70%. I go to the local U-Haul to get propane.

 

[rallenhall]

I think the percentage of fill for propane tanks is 80% to allow for expansion.

 

[rlrohan]

I think the percentage of fill for propane tanks is 80% to allow for expansion.

I know there has to be room for expansion but what I mean is the exchange places don't fill the tanks as full as they are allowed. Maybe not all but that's what I read somewhere.

 

[MaxStout]

I know there has to be room for expansion but what I mean is the exchange places don't fill the tanks as full as they are allowed. Maybe not all but that's what I read somewhere.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Not-so CSB: Several years ago I had a 20 lb tank filled at U-Haul. I loaded it in the back end of my suv, bungeed it so it wouldn't tip. As I was driving home I heard a loud hiss and I could smell the gas. I pulled over, shut off the engine, and threw the tank into the ditch to keep the escaping gas a distance from the roadway.

Once it stopped purging I took it back to U-Haul. The guy argued that I must've mishandled the tank, but I told him it was properly secured in an upright position and that his employee likely over-filled it. The opd overfill valve did its job; it just happened at a bad time.

The guy offered to refill it but I said I didn't want to make the same mistake twice, so he just refunded my money.

I've since been taking them to a little propane dealer that also sells gas grills. They carefully weigh each tank and never a problem.

 

[rlrohan]

Wouldn't surprise me.

Not-so CSB: Several years ago I had a 20 lb tank filled at U-Haul. I loaded it in the back end of my suv, bungeed it so it wouldn't tip. As I was driving home I heard a loud hiss and I could smell the gas. I pulled over, shut off the engine, and threw the tank into the ditch to keep the escaping gas a distance from the roadway.

Once it stopped purging I took it back to U-Haul. The guy argued that I must've mishandled the tank, but I told him it was properly secured in an upright position and that his employee likely over-filled it. The opd overfill valve did its job; it just happened at a bad time.

The guy offered to refill it but I said I didn't want to make the same mistake twice, so he just refunded my money.

I've since been taking them to a little propane dealer that also sells gas grills. They carefully weigh each tank and never a problem.

Could have been a very bad situation. Could have been an over fill valve failure if it was able to get over filled. The overfill valve is supposed to shut off the filling of the tank so it isn't overfilled. Some people store their grilles and/or propane tanks in their attached garage even though they shouldn't.

 

[mac_1103]

FWIW I just happen to have a "full" Blue Rhino tank, so I weighed it. 16.375 lbs net. 82%.

 

[shoengine]

I know there has to be room for expansion but what I mean is the exchange places don't fill the tanks as full as they are allowed. Maybe not all but that's what I read somewhere.

Weigh them. Otherwise you are guessing.

I guarantee that I have lost more CO2 from sloppy line management than I will ever be screwed out of by unscrupulous vendors.

 

[mac_1103]

As for CO2, I haven't been able to find anyone near me who fills on site. But when I took my shiny new aluminum 5 lb tank to the local Linde, they swapped it for an equally shiny aluminum tank with a more recent hydro test date.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

My HBS is not very L. I have to drive over an hour. I don't make special trips, but I have tried to arrange to pick things up on occasions when I had to be in town for other reasons. I also place big mail orders to make shipping more cost-effective.

I never buy grain anywhere else, because these people are very cheap, and they will allow you to choose any amounts you like. On the other hand, they sold me some brown hops once, so now I only buy hops online.

As for online prices vs. real stores, I just bought a propane deep fryer. I was trying to make myself not buy one, but I had to go to the local Ace for toilet bolts, and this store has no end of barbecue stuff. They sell Big Green Eggs, for example. I got weak and checked to see if they had the fryer I wanted, and unfortunately, they did. Price? Amazon plus about 5%, and it was already assembled. No worries about UPS using the box for a football.

Of course, it's on my patio now.

 

[Broothru]

I just went there and got both my 5 lb and 2.5 lb tanks filled. Total was $16.90 including the 3% fee for using plastic instead of cash.

Kind of a convoluted process. You go into the "showroom" w/o your tanks and pay. They don't like it if you are putting the tanks in the occupied area of a vehicle, so you want to do trunk of the car or back of the truck somehow - at least until you are filled and ready to leave. I was in a cargo van and that seemed to satisfy their safety paranoia somewhat. Then you take your receipt and go thru an automated gate into the yard behind the shop. Stop at the first roll-up door around the back and give the guy your tanks and ticket. He fills them and hands them back all frosty. You gotta drive back out the automatic gate which takes a minute to react when you pull up to it. Not sure if it's actually automatic or if somebody has to notice you want out and hit the button. Watch out for speeding forklifts.

Don’t be too critical of safety “paranoia.”

About 15 years ago I routinely went to a local outlet of a major gas supplier to get my bottles filled. They’d check the tare weight or the bottle, put it on an industrial scale and fill it to the weight of the gas. As I said, they did ‘industrial’ fills of virtually every gas imaginable in any capacity tank, even mixed gases if you wanted beer gas or nitrogen. They also did bottle exchange, but I was jealously possessive of my shiny aluminum tanks, especially my 5 lb one. They usually didn’t have 5# available for exchange unless you called ahead anyway, and were willing to wait a day or two to get one from the central distribution center. They’d always be heavy, ugly steel ones anyway.

So one day I load up my truck (king cab configuration) with my empty 5#er strapped in, drive 12 miles to the gas distributor, leave the bottle on the loading dock and head inside to pay. By the time I get back, the loader has my bottle filled and ready to go.

Looking back on the incident, there’s a bit of cryptic foreshadowing. He jokes about the aluminum bottle being so small and so light that the gas filler hoses and mechanism probably weighs more than the CO2 bottle. Obviously he’s more frequently filling those huge steel tanks mounted on roller wheels.

Anyway, it’s a hot summer day and I’m anxious to get home and hook up the gas to the kegerator and have a frosty one. I strap the bottle in the back seat and head on down the highway. A few minutes later I’m cruising down the Interstate in moderate traffic when suddenly there’s a muffled ’pop’ and the cab is engulfed in a fog. Immediately I “four-ganged” the electric windows to “Open,”correctly analyzing that the over-pressure frangible disk had burst and dumped all the CO2 into the enclosed space. At 70 MPH. In moderately heavy traffic.

The fog quickly cleared, and the CO2 induced ’brain fog’ was dissipating, and I’d somehow maintained not only control of my pickup but my lane as well, without loosing my wits, my consciousness or my life.

Gaseous CO2 is not considered HAZMAT, but although not toxic it is more readily absorbed in the blood stream and will displace oxygen. In a confined environment it can result in loss of consciousness. Luckily, disaster averted.

The cause was over-filling on a hot day, as well as my transporting it in an enclosed space. Had it been a bigger bottle (10# or 20#), and had I been in a regular sized pickup cab, the outcome may have been quite different. Although CO2 (unlike CO) won’t kill you outright, it can cause unconsciousness and eventual suffocation. It is odorless and tasteless (as is CO), and needs to be handled and stored and transported in a well ventilated space. Maybe in a car, with all the windows rolled down? You decide.

I’ve since switched to bottle exchange rather than refilling for not only my 5# ‘portable’ but also my 10 and 20 pounders. Plus, the outlet no longer does on-site refilling.

 

[Broothru]

FWIW I just happen to have a "full" Blue Rhino tank, so I weighed it. 16.375 lbs net. 82%.

All new tanks, as well as refurbished ones, have over-pressure fill valves that won’t allow filling in excess of 80%. That’s to avoid expansion due to thermal increase in the gas.

Even my RV propane tank will only fill to 80% of capacity. When I fill in the morning, the gauge reads 80%. By midday it reads 82~83% due to expansion and increased internal pressure.

 

[matt_m]

Blue Rhino openly states they only fill them to 15lb to "control costs".

https://bluerhino.com/propane-info/...much-propane-does-blue-rhino-put-in-its-tanks

 

[rlrohan]

Blue Rhino openly states they only fill them to 15lb to "control costs".

https://bluerhino.com/propane-info/...much-propane-does-blue-rhino-put-in-its-tanks

That’s 25% less than their capacity. (Assuming you are talking about a 20lb tank) So that would be about a gallon less propane.

 

[mac_1103]

All new tanks, as well as refurbished ones, have over-pressure fill valves that won’t allow filling in excess of 80%. That’s to avoid expansion due to thermal increase in the gas.

I know that. I was inspired to weigh mine because of a comment to the effect that they don't even fill to 80%.

Blue Rhino openly states they only fill them to 15lb to "control costs".

Well, they gave me 16+.

 

[Snuffy]

Don’t be too critical of safety “paranoia.”

About 15 years ago I routinely went to a local outlet of a major gas supplier to get my bottles filled. They’d check the tare weight or the bottle, put it on an industrial scale and fill it to the weight of the gas. As I said, they did ‘industrial’ fills of virtually every gas imaginable in any capacity tank, even mixed gases if you wanted beer gas or nitrogen. They also did bottle exchange, but I was jealously possessive of my shiny aluminum tanks, especially my 5 lb one. They usually didn’t have 5# available for exchange unless you called ahead anyway, and were willing to wait a day or two to get one from the central distribution center. They’d always be heavy, ugly steel ones anyway.

So one day I load up my truck (king cab configuration) with my empty 5#er strapped in, drive 12 miles to the gas distributor, leave the bottle on the loading dock and head inside to pay. By the time I get back, the loader has my bottle filled and ready to go.

Looking back on the incident, there’s a bit of cryptic foreshadowing. He jokes about the aluminum bottle being so small and so light that the gas filler hoses and mechanism probably weighs more than the CO2 bottle. Obviously he’s more frequently filling those huge steel tanks mounted on roller wheels.

Anyway, it’s a hot summer day and I’m anxious to get home and hook up the gas to the kegerator and have a frosty one. I strap the bottle in the back seat and head on down the highway. A few minutes later I’m cruising down the Interstate in moderate traffic when suddenly there’s a muffled ’pop’ and the cab is engulfed in a fog. Immediately I “four-ganged” the electric windows to “Open,”correctly analyzing that the over-pressure frangible disk had burst and dumped all the CO2 into the enclosed space. At 70 MPH. In moderately heavy traffic.

The fog quickly cleared, and the CO2 induced ’brain fog’ was dissipating, and I’d somehow maintained not only control of my pickup but my lane as well, without loosing my wits, my consciousness or my life.

Gaseous CO2 is not considered HAZMAT, but although not toxic it is more readily absorbed in the blood stream and will displace oxygen. In a confined environment it can result in loss of consciousness. Luckily, disaster averted.

The cause was over-filling on a hot day, as well as my transporting it in an enclosed space. Had it been a bigger bottle (10# or 20#), and had I been in a regular sized pickup cab, the outcome may have been quite different. Although CO2 (unlike CO) won’t kill you outright, it can cause unconsciousness and eventual suffocation. It is odorless and tasteless (as is CO), and needs to be handled and stored and transported in a well ventilated space. Maybe in a car, with all the windows rolled down? You decide.

I’ve since switched to bottle exchange rather than refilling for not only my 5# ‘portable’ but also my 10 and 20 pounders. Plus, the outlet no longer does on-site refilling.

I guess I used the term "paranoia" because my usual procedure has been to stick the tank in the floorboard where it can't roll around and then tote it into the LHBS and clunk it down for refill. I chat with the proprietor while he fills it and then pay up, take my frosty bottle home the reverse of the way I brought it in and all is well. I did not really consider that they may overfill it or some safety mechanism kicks in to release pressure or something could rupture. They guy weighed it as he filled it and I assumed he has lots of experience at that sort of thing. Sure seemed competent at it anyway.
Did you ever figure out what exactly failed with your tank? Did it blow the valve off or rupture or what? You got me kinda eyeing my fresh tanks like sweaty TNT now...

 

[Broothru]

I guess I used the term "paranoia" because my usual procedure has been to stick the tank in the floorboard where it can't roll around and then tote it into the LHBS and clunk it down for refill. I chat with the proprietor while he fills it and then pay up, take my frosty bottle home the reverse of the way I brought it in and all is well. I did not really consider that they may overfill it or some safety mechanism kicks in to release pressure or something could rupture. They guy weighed it as he filled it and I assumed he has lots of experience at that sort of thing. Sure seemed competent at it anyway.
Did you ever figure out what exactly failed with your tank? Did it blow the valve off or rupture or what? You got me kinda eyeing my fresh tanks like sweaty TNT now...

I’ve always tried to be respectfully paranoid around all pressurized fluids, even those that are non-toxic or unlikely to go boom. I may only have half my wits, but I still have all my digits.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Blue Rhino openly states they only fill them to 15lb to "control costs".

If you read the small print at any propane exchange place, usually where the price is, it will tell you what amount they fill to. There was huge lawsuit years ago when the "exchange industry" started specifically about the short filling, so now they disclose it so as not to deceive the customer.
I only exchange when my tank(s) when it is close to expiring. Most places will let you pick a tank so I look for a pretty one, otherwise, I go to a local filling place (tractor supply) and only pay for what they put in.

 

[4min33]

I wish I had that option. The only one I can find near me is an Airgas place that only swaps out tanks I think I paid close to 35 to 40 bucks for a 5 gallon tank. I wish I could find a place close that would just refill the one I have. But, I guess that is the best I can do for now.

SF Garden Supply isn't too far away from you and according to my SF Homebrewers Guild buddies they offer $25 20-lb exchanges. By far the cheapest I've heard of in the area but you'd need a 20-lb tank.

 

[beren]

A 20 pound tank is designed to hold 20 pounds of propane safely. The only reason to ever use an exchange is if your tank is out of date because they will Hydro test it and put it back in the system.

I have had places that do a 20 pounds refill only put in 15 pounds and tell me that’s all that will safely hold. I argued with them made him fill it and never went back there again.

 

[Agent]

A 20 pound tank is designed to hold 20 pounds of propane safely. The only reason to ever use an exchange is if your tank is out of date because they will Hydro test it and put it back in the system.

I have had places that do a 20 pounds refill only put in 15 pounds and tell me that’s all that will safely hold. I argued with them made him fill it and never went back there again.

Not quite.

20lb propane tanks hold 20lbs at 100% capacity. OPD valves will limit you to a maximum fill of 90% capacity (18lbs). You need room for the liquid to vaporize anyway.

The rule of thumb for safely filling propane tanks is 80% capacity (16lbs) to cover extreme scenarios. So you'll never see exchange tanks offer more than 16lbs.

 

[rlrohan]

Not quite.

20lb propane tanks hold 20lbs at 100% capacity. OPD valves will limit you to a maximum fill of 90% capacity (18lbs). You need room for the liquid to vaporize anyway.

The rule of thumb for safely filling propane tanks is 80% capacity (16lbs) to cover extreme scenarios. So you'll never see exchange tanks offer more than 16lbs.

That's not quite right either. All newer propane tanks 4-40 lbs have an OPD valve in them that shuts off filling when the tank is at capacity. The OPD shuts off filling when full and still leaves a 20% safety space for expansion. When a 20 lb tank is full it will hold 20lbs of propane and still have the 20% reserved head space. A 20 lb pound tank will weigh about 37lbs full. 20 lbs propane and about 17lbs for the tank. The tank will vary from 16-17lbs (Tare weight).

 

[Snuffy]

I’ve always tried to be respectfully paranoid around all pressurized fluids, even those that are non-toxic or unlikely to go boom. I may only have half my wits, but I still have all my digits.

I've spent time around lots of pressurized tanks. Scuba, propane, CO2, paintball, compressors. Never heard of one failing. Leaking, sure. Boom, no.
Did yours just pop something internal or actually fail externally somehow? Did you trash it or was it capable of refurb? I guess you'd never trust it again after something like that - even if it could be rebuilt.
Just curious.

 

[Broothru]

I've spent time around lots of pressurized tanks. Scuba, propane, CO2, paintball, compressors. Never heard of one failing. Leaking, sure. Boom, no.
Did yours just pop something internal or actually fail externally somehow? Did you trash it or was it capable of refurb? I guess you'd never trust it again after something like that - even if it could be rebuilt.
Just curious.

This was before OPD devices which limit fills to 80% capacity. But compressed gas bottles (all fluids, all gases, whether flammable or inert) have always had frangible blowout discs as a fail safe for over-pressurization.

That’s what blew on mine (CO2) which had been grossly overfilled, then heated by the local 100+ F summer weather. It fully discharged in what seemed like mere seconds.

The bottle was O.K., and passed the hydrostatic test after replacing the blowout disc.