Upgrading propane setup vs switching to electric all in one

[Bassaholic]

I am trying to decide what my next upgrade for my hot side should be. I currently have a 5 gallon BIAB set up with an 11 gallon bayou classic kettles and a bayou burner. I store my gear in my barn, but brew on my front porch so I have to lug everything out and set it up the night before so I can start brewing early the next day. I am trying to get setup in the barn which has electricity and a yard hydrant outside nearby. There is a garage door as well as a vent fan so I’m not super concerned about propane fumes/condensation inside while I brew, but it’s still a constrain for winter brewing. I’m wanting to get a nicer hot side set up and possibly go a little larger to brew 10 gallon batches on occasion.

Here’s where I’m at a fork in the road. I’m leaning towards a 65L Brewzilla system($650), but I would need to switch out my regular 30 amp breaker for a GFCI and a 50 amp plug for a 30 amp plug, maybe $150-200 in parts and I can do the work myself. Ideally like the idea of not having to swap out propane tanks and have the ability to program strike water temps the night before so I’m set to go in the morning. I also haven’t looked into chilling larger batches with the included chiller, but I’m leaning towards a CFC from Exchillerator for either propane or electric. ($200)

The other option is getting a nicer burner and a 15 gallon kettle. There are varying prices on this, but I could probably find a suitable setup for less than the 65L Brewzilla. The Blichmann Hellfire looks pretty great as do the Spike kettles, but I’m not set on anything yet. I definitely like the simplicity of a BIAB propane setup, but the electric all in one systems seem to be pretty popular and have their own advantages.

What are y’all’s opinions on propane vs electric when moving to an indoor ventilated area? Is the extra expense of electric worth it?

 

[Velnerj]

A hybrid option could be an induction plate and new kettle. That would get rid of the propane but probably be cheaper than an all in one system....

 

[Cyclman]

Have you looked at a hot rod heat stick, great for preheating sparge water.

 

[Bassaholic]

Have you looked at a hot rod heat stick, great for preheating sparge water.

I have been looking into immersion heat sticks. I’m almost definitely going with the Brewzilla and I was looking at ways to heat up sparge water. Do you think the HotRod is worth the added expense over cheaper heat sticks?

 

[Beerstein]

Go with any 240v heater over propane. You will not regret this. Offers so much more flexibility. Bonus if you can do the electrical yourself.

 

[Sammy86]

I upgraded to the 65L from stove top/propane cooler mash tun. It is night and day.

I love setting everything up the night before and waking up to heated strike water. I'm an early morning brewer, so I'm mashed in by 6:30-7 AM and completely done by 1 PM with cleanup and putting everything away.

Upgrade to electric, forget propane!

 

[SFC Rudy]

My issue was always with heating and storing sparge water. I use two Mash and boils. I mash in one, drain, then sparge/mash out in the other. Combine the two and boil. I've been averaging 82% efficiency with my setup.

 

[MikeCo]

Go electric. I think the all-in-one systems are a great value for what you get. Main advantages I see for the Brewzilla over propane:

• No propane tanks to swap or refill. No running out during a batch.
• Electricity is cheaper to use and quieter with no fumes to worry about.
• The Brewzilla has the programmability you mentioned you wanted and can recirculate the mash to maintain a constant mash temp with no stirring.

 

[Beerstein]

Don't forget you that with electric you don't have to run to store to refill if you accidentally run out.

 

[tracer bullet]

Generally speaking agreed that electric > propane for a variety of reasons. Do it if you can.

As for heating sparge water... give yourself a brew where you don't bother heating it. See if it's appreciably different for efficiency. You might not care to bother any more.

That said, if you're willing to buy the extra grain and adjust your recipes, you don't necessarily have to sparge. I'm a sparger, but I have the equipment and time. If I was moving to a new space, busy, or whatever I'd be highly tempted to skip it as well. I'm not recommending it but will say - consider it.

 

[Cyclman]

I have been looking into immersion heat sticks. I’m almost definitely going with the Brewzilla and I was looking at ways to heat up sparge water. Do you think the HotRod is worth the added expense over cheaper heat sticks?

I can’t speak as to whether it is worth the premium, but the quality and reliability is incredible. I think that this is one of the products I have most commonly recommended of all my brewing equipment. And now that you can get temperature controllers to adequately controlled that wattage, I may will start heating my Brewing water overnight.

 

[harrower]

When I switched from propane to an Anvil all in one, on my first brew I got out my propane burner to heat my sparge water. I then purchase a Digiboll 120 v unit to heat my sparge water. $159 then. I brew in the morning and with my Anvil I am ready to mash in first thing at 240V. I turn on my Digiboll with 2 gal. of water to 190 degrees. I also use my Digiboll to make 1 Gal of Fast Pitch for making 4 yeast starters for future brewing.

 

[Deadalus]

You mentioned switching to a 50 amp plug but only mention a 30 amp breaker. Also, that you have electricity in the barn, but nothing about the service to the barn. You may need line upgrades as well if you are moving to something needing 50 amps.

Long term energy cost, I think in most cases electric is cheaper than propane and a lot more convenient.

 

[Deadalus]

You mentioned switching to a 50 amp plug but only mention a 30 amp breaker. Also, that you have electricity in the barn, but nothing about the service to the barn. You may need line upgrades as well if you are moving to something needing 50 amps.

Long term energy cost, I think in most cases electric is cheaper than propane and a lot more convenient.

This had me wondering so I looked up the 65l Brewzilla. It calls for a NEMA 6-30R plug, which sorta looks like a face, but it's just 30 amps and the heating elements are a total of 3500 watts. I was going to say you could maybe get a breaker for about $75 but it really depends on your style box. I think I paid $65 about 2.5 years ago. I did find a really inexpensive GE 2 pole GFCI for $51.84. Forgive me if you already know this but you should check the model of your breaker box and see if the model # of the breaker works for it. Looks like those NEMA 6-30R outlets are about $10-12. Maybe under $100 if you are just changing out the outlet or a short run of line from the box but still wondering about that 50 amp reference.

 

[JAReeves]

I love my induction system. I have a 3500W/220 and 1800W/120. The 3500W rips through heating liquids, the 1800W pokes along but does an admirable job. At some point I will upgrade my 220 to 50A, add a wifi controller and another 3500W/220; smoother than duck excrement on linoleum!

 

[Beerstein]

This had me wondering so I looked up the 65l Brewzilla. It calls for a NEMA 6-30R plug, which sorta looks like a face, but it's just 30 amps and the heating elements are a total of 3500 watts. I was going to say you could maybe get a breaker for about $75 but it really depends on your style box. I think I paid $65 about 2.5 years ago. I did find a really inexpensive GE 2 pole GFCI for $51.84. Forgive me if you already know this but you should check the model of your breaker box and see if the model # of the breaker works for it. Looks like those NEMA 6-30R outlets are about $10-12. Maybe under $100 if you are just changing out the outlet or a short run of line from the box but still wondering about that 50 amp reference.

I went through this a few weeks ago. A 6-30R means it’s rated for 30 amps. A 6-50R is rated for 50 amps. If it has an L in front of it, that indicates locking (the socket most used on generators)

 

[Deadalus]

I went through this a few weeks ago. A 6-30R means it’s rated for 30 amps. A 6-50R is rated for 50 amps. If it has an L in front of it, that indicates locking (the socket most used on generators)

Right. @Bassaholic mentioned something about a 50 amp plug originally, while only having a 30 amp breaker. I was wondering if the Brewzilla needed maybe 50 amps, but then I looked up the unit and it is only 30 amps.

As far as the plug id, knowing it indicates 30 amps is helpful but be careful because I don't think anything in the ID indicates it's 220V. For instance, 30 amp RV outlets are 120V (NEMA TT-30R). This had me a bit confused when I wired an RV plug for my house because in a house, normal appliances that are 30 amps like a water heater or dryer are 220.

 

[Deadalus]

I love my induction system. I have a 3500W/220 and 1800W/120. The 3500W rips through heating liquids, the 1800W pokes along but does an admirable job. At some point I will upgrade my 220 to 50A, add a wifi controller and another 3500W/220; smoother than duck excrement on linoleum!

I have 5500W on my HLT and BK (inside the vessels). I typically brew 6 gallon batches and once in a while 10 gallon batches. So BK volume is usually around 7-8 gallons and by the time I am done fly sparging, the temp is typically about 200F or so. Additional wattage on the HLT might be nice as the volume is larger ~10-11 gallons and starting from cold. I think you could potentially run another 3500W on your 30 amp 220 as you have 7200W but it doesn't leave much room for anything else, maybe not a good idea to bump up against the limit either. If you did kick it up to 50 amps then you could go even bigger than an additional 3500W, 50 amp systems typically have two 5500W elements. Just depends on what type of brew system you have and what you want to brew.

 

[drjayray]

50amp plugs need some serious thick wire from panel to outlet. At least 8ga and if longer than 50ft go 6ga. I just put 50amp outlets in garage and my barn for new Tesla coming and can’t skimp on safety with big loads like heating elements and thick copper is not cheap. But the bonus is electric cars, big welders, plasma cutters, and big electric brew rigs all like that 50amp plug. Taking to electrician saying new houses should have 400amp service if they have multicar garages.

 

[user 298779]

I love my induction system. I have a 3500W/220 and 1800W/120. The 3500W rips through heating liquids, the 1800W pokes along but does an admirable job. At some point I will upgrade my 220 to 50A, add a wifi controller and another 3500W/220; smoother than duck excrement on linoleum!

JA, I have 2 induction systems as well; same configuration as yours. Do you know for a fact that you can use a controller with them? I was told by some respected experienced electric Brewers they didn’t believe it was possible. They said there “might” be workaround if you disassemble and mod/ change components/configuration but they’ve never hear of it being done.

If you know how this can be done please share it with us.

cheers

 

[IslandLizard]

JA, I have 2 induction systems as well; same configuration as yours. Do you know for a fact that you can use a controller with them? I was told by some respected experienced electric Brewers they didn’t believe it was possible.

I know (for a fact) it's not easy to use an outside controller with induction plates. It may switch them off and on, but the induction units themselves reset to default startup settings, e.g., 1200W on an IC3500.
The model that has the dial knob instead of the electronic power buttons does reset correctly at its power setting that corresponds to the knob position, so there's hope there.

One member here built his own 5000W induction plate. IIRC, he regulates the power by cycling on and off with a temp controller.

 

[JAReeves]

Caveat! I am not an electrician, electrical engineer, or anything of the sort. I look at other people's designs and see what I can duplicate/modify to work within the parameters of my home system.

I am speculating as I have not yet done it, but based upon what I have seen other brewers do with their electric systems, it would need to work something like this:

A power source that could handle the controller box, into which the necessary power plugs and temperature gauges need to be plugged. Not sure what the amperage would need to be, as that would depend on the power reqs of the burners. The temp gauges would probably need to be in a thermowell in the kettles for the best accuracy, so that might require some mods to your equipment. Probably could hang a probe over the edge into the liquid, but that seems like a temporary fix. Program the system to run up to and hold temp. This is the basics of existing electric kettle systems, I don't see why this wouldn't work with induction as well.

Hope this helps,

Reevesie

EDIT: Our posts crossed paths, but @IslandLizard 's experience is greater than mine with induction.

 

[JAReeves]

I know (for a fact) it's not easy to use an outside controller with induction plates. It may switch them off and on, but the induction units themselves reset to default startup settings, e.g., 1200W on an IC3500.
The model that has the dial knob instead of the electronic power buttons does reset correctly at its power setting that corresponds to the knob position, so there's hope there.

One member here built his own 5000W induction plate. IIRC, he regulates the power by cycling on and off with a temp controller.

In making my glycol chiller system from a window A/C unit, I did go into the controller box and bypass the internal temp control so that it's either on max power or off, as controlled by the outside temp controller. It would void the warranty and be potentially a shocking situation, but an induction burner might be modified similarly. However, I am not recommending playing with the internals of something that holds capacitors big enough to stop your heart.

 

[IslandLizard]

Long term energy cost, I think in most cases electric is cheaper than propane and a lot more convenient.

Yes, on both accounts, electric is much cheaper and much more convenient than propane. And you can use electric indoors.

Unless you're under your garage's overhead door, you do need an active ventilation system though, which could be simply a fan in a window above the kettle.

 

[WesBrew]

I recommend going electric. I brew in the house in the a/c. 30a circuit that I installed, brew commander, 5500w kettle & 3500w hlt, which I don’t need to run simultaneously. Steam condenser is very effective controlling the steam. Clean, precise, cheap to use, convenient. Split brew days, Brew year round indoors!

 

[user 298779]

There’s good feedback here. Thing's are easily misinterpreted via e-Mail, threads, etc., however there’s no need to respond with “I know (for a fact)..” - it comes across as a smart a$$, and there’s no reason for that on this thread - especially from a staff member.

I consider the people at eBrew supply to be highly reputable, so when they tell me something I accept it. Sure they could be wrong on induction so that’s why I asked here. Not questioning to be rude - I’d simply like to know experience of others that have done it, and what solution was. Avantco IC3500 with push button controls is not straightforward. Neither is Duxtop 1800 with push button controls.

I have 5500W & 3500W elements I use in kettles and would not go back to burners. Electric is the way to go IMHO, as others have already stated.

 

[IslandLizard]

[...] however there’s no need to respond with “I know (for a fact)..” - it comes across as a smart a$$, and there’s no reason for that on this thread - especially from a staff member.

Well, xcuse me! <shrugs>

 

[user 298779]

No worries. Cheers

 

[Deadalus]

I know (for a fact) it's not easy to use an outside controller with induction plates. It may switch them off and on, but the induction units themselves reset to default startup settings, e.g., 1200W on an IC3500.
The model that has the dial knob instead of the electronic power buttons does reset correctly at its power setting that corresponds to the knob position, so there's hope there.

One member here built his own 5000W induction plate. IIRC, he regulates the power by cycling on and off with a temp controller.

Maybe if there was a side loop that activated when the PID cut the power. In the side loop, send enough power to keep the induction unit on but not enough to create any real heat. Keep the induction unit set to high. PID's regulate wattage I think, as when it comes on I don't always see full power being used on the meter. Sounds more expensive to do than using a water heater element (extra parts for a side loop).

Induction plates seem expensive though, that Avantco IC3500 is ~$238. Drilling a hole in the pot, some fittings, cords, plugs and a water heater element probably cost less but maybe not too different except the element could be 5500W. Personally if I had a nice pot I'd go with a welded TC port if I had to do it again, but I have keggles. Fitting the elements on those was a little tricky and tight using an electrical box on the outside.

 

[HopSing]

There’s good feedback here. Thing's are easily misinterpreted via e-Mail, threads, etc., however there’s no need to respond with “I know (for a fact)..” - it comes across as a smart a$$, and there’s no reason for that on this thread - especially from a staff member.

@KBW PilotHouse - Welcome to the forum! Perhaps I missed something, but you asked " Do you know for a fact that you can use a controller with them? " hence @IslandLizard reply " I know (for a fact) it's not easy to use an outside controller with induction plates. " Not sure why you felt that was a smart a$$ remark, but having read many of Island's 17,000 replies on this forum, I can assure you it was not meant to be a smart a$$ remark, just useful info. All good.

~HopSing.

 

[IslandLizard]

One member here built his own 5000W induction plate. IIRC, he regulates the power by cycling on and off with a temp controller.

Here's the thread where he documents his Induction Plate build:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/diy-5kw-induction-heater.689121/

 

[user 298779]

Thank you very much IL - That’s a great post on induction mods for a controller. . I’m not even going to think about trying that - I’d get electrocuted and probably burn the house down!!

I really like the eBIAB systems I’m using - kinda like a Solo Commander.

HT is excellent- thanks to all who participate! Cheers

 

[Bassaholic]

This had me wondering so I looked up the 65l Brewzilla. It calls for a NEMA 6-30R plug, which sorta looks like a face, but it's just 30 amps and the heating elements are a total of 3500 watts. I was going to say you could maybe get a breaker for about $75 but it really depends on your style box. I think I paid $65 about 2.5 years ago. I did find a really inexpensive GE 2 pole GFCI for $51.84. Forgive me if you already know this but you should check the model of your breaker box and see if the model # of the breaker works for it. Looks like those NEMA 6-30R outlets are about $10-12. Maybe under $100 if you are just changing out the outlet or a short run of line from the box but still wondering about that 50 amp reference.

So whoever wired the service initially installed a 50 amp plug on the 30 amp breaker. I need to double check, but I believe they used a smaller gauged wire as well. Worst case I’ll have to run a new line as well. Are you sure that breaker you linked is GFCI? I didn’t see that in the description. I think the one I bought was $75.

 

[HopSing]

Are you sure that breaker you linked is GFCI? I didn’t see that in the description. I think the one I bought was $75.

An alternative to having a GFCI breaker in the panel is to use an inline GFCI breaker. Pricing is probably about the same. The benefit of the inline cord is it gives you about another 6 feet of reach and it is portable, should you move to a different brew location. I also like that I can trip the inline breaker by using the reset button to completely kill the power to the unit without unplugging it. Its a good emergency "ALL STOP" button should you run into an issue, e.g. massive boil over.

Here's the one I got to power the Avantco 3500W induction burner.

https://www.grainger.com/product/SOUTHWIRE-Line-Cord-GFCI-55CW92?searchQuery=55CW92&searchBar=true
It has a different plug than the Brewzilla, but they probably make similar inline breakers. If not, they make an adapter.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0814J1T87?psc=1&smid=A2565OKC78981M&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
Either way, just make sure you're protected by GFCI.

~HopSing.

 

[ChiknNutz]

Once I move from propane, this is what I plan to go with. All in, with a new chiller, you'll be into it just over $1600 for a 20G setup. This also includes the Steam Slayer so you can brew indoors w/o an exhaust fan.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/biabpackagepremium.htm

 

[Deadalus]

So whoever wired the service initially installed a 50 amp plug on the 30 amp breaker. I need to double check, but I believe they used a smaller gauged wire as well. Worst case I’ll have to run a new line as well. Are you sure that breaker you linked is GFCI? I didn’t see that in the description. I think the one I bought was $75.

My apologies it does not appear so. It popped up as a link when I searched for a GFCI and GE. (I was looking for current prices and GE is my panel manufacturer.) The pigtail threw me off. Not sure of its purpose, product sheet says it is "thermal Magnetic Pole plus Nonautomatic Pole For Switching Neutral".

If the gauge was insufficient for 50 amps, consider running a new line for safety's sake. Someone may have been overloading the wire.