Unreasonable Sense of Entitlement. The scourge of modern society.

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I'm an educator. Not the same, but in some ways similar. If I focused on the doofuses who don't read the syllabus, can't be bothered to show up to class, won't read the book--well, I'd be out of this business in no time.

I've found that I need to focus on the students (customers!) who are doing what they need to do. I don't spend a lot of time looking at the doofuses; they just bring me down. If they, as I say, "get religion," well, then that's different. But most don't. They just feel entitled to pass the class with an A or a B, and that's that. Sadly, for them, the class grade distribution DOES approximate a normal distribution. I don't curve--they curve themselves. :)

Bobby, in this day and age, when people can post their "experiences" on the web and others will take their reviews as gospel, it seems like the only thing you can do is try to be as customer-focused as you can.

*********

You may or may not recall this--I asked for, and received, a spunding valve ordered from you for Christmas. It came in a nice box marked "Ball" which I took to mean including the ball-lock quick-disconnect.

Except...it had the connection to a Sanke keg in it. I emailed you, included a pic, asked nicely about the goofup. Except...it wasn't your goofup. The drop-down menu clearly asks to specify a connection, and Sanke is the default. My daughter, who bought that for me, didn't know that. I took my info from the page that showed a QD on it.

My fault. You offered to include a QD in my next order gratis, but I didn't follow through because, well, it was my mistake (not the first time I've asked for brewing stuff for X-mas, and got the wrong size). You'd think I'd learn. Maybe next year.

I'm keeping the sanke connector; who knows, at some point it may be important. And the value of the QD is hardly worth doing anything more. I have a few spares. I'm using one.

I say this because, IMO, you responded with excellent CS: It was my fault, but you offered to make it right. It's why it's easy to pull up your web page to order something instead of searching. Bobby, it does matter.

Go back and see what I wrote in the first section above. Don't focus on the doofuses. (should the plural of doofus be doofi? I don't know).

*************

I don't know what proportion of doofus customers you get. Don't answer, it can't end well. But there are those of us who appreciate the CS, and your attempts at trying to make sure we get what we need, not just what we order.

You may need to put a control on your website that doesn't allow people to order yeast and specify first-class mail. And despite that, I'm moved to say this: what moron doesn't know that first-class mail is....iffy?
 
True story and it's happened more than a few times. UPS will have the package at the local facility and put it on the truck for delivery but it's a day or two before it's supposed to be delivered. At the end of the day they will update tracking info from "out for delivery" to "returned to xxxxx facility due to not delivery date".

I'm astonished by this. We've used UPS almost exclusively for 32 yrs, and tracking is 'new' in that range, but with easily 10's of thousands of shipments, this has never happened that we know of. And in the last 10, maybe, they arrive on time almost without exception (weather permitting, of course). With that exception, they guarantee delivery on all but ground. Even those arrive on time.
We too know when a customer is not happy with delivery, but due to the high cost to ship what we make (10-20% of product cost in some cases), we cannot make good for them.

As Bobby has pointed out, being a small business owner can be a tough life, especially when you have a 'day job' too. Being family owned can make it even harder!
 
While it is a brave new world, as has been said, I have to COMPLETELY agree that an overall rudification has happened. And while my grown kids are quick to point out that I may be focusing on rude behavior, therefore making its frequency seem artificially increased, they are also convinced that general selfish behavior is becoming more the norm. This is true at B&M shopping, most public venues, and ESPECIALLY on the roadways. Don't get me started on drivers who refuse to use signals.

Anyway, about the immediacy and instant gratification thing. I'd love to say its generational but I can see it in all demographics, in many places. What burns me is the very folks who cannot seem to reply in a timely fashion to scheduling emails/calls/texts, are the ones who go apoplectic when I don't answer them within seconds. Double standards abound.

And stay off my lawn.
 
Just saw this thread..... All I can say is there are "all kinds" of people out there and some are so unrealistic. Many are entitled and have no patience or understanding. To not want to order from you because the post office was slow or messed up is crazy! All I can say is I have ordered from you many times over the years and even have talked to you on the phone, and I have never had an issue or bad experience. You even made a custom tri clover fitting for me so I can put C02 into my fermentor and rack under pressure! That item was a hit and I see you sell a lot of them! So keep up the good work and ignore the goof balls! You can vent here anytime, it's good to get the poison out!

John
 
Letting a few trollish, unhappy customers get under your skin is to allow the squeaky wheel to get the oil. Ignore that 2% of your customers who will never be satisfied, no matter what you do. Concentrate on the 98% who think you are doing a great job. The latter are people who will come back, and will tell others to do business with you.

Don't give the bastards the satisfaction.
 
That's odd, I order routinely from Farmhouse and they ship via UPS and i'd estimate that 75% of the time UPS delivers before the estimated date of delivery. Often the day after it was shipped.

That's great, I can remember when they used to do that here. I always figured it averaged out the few times they just wouldn't make it on time because the package got on a wrong truck traveling from coast to coast.

It's just a little maddening when you track the package as out for delivery, see the big brown truck go by without stopping, and later see the tracking updated that it wasn't time for delivery yet so the package was returned to the local facility. They were correct, it wasn't the scheduled delivery date.

And yes, I thought it was very odd. Still though, they brought it back on the next day when it was scheduled to be delivered, lol.
 
I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!

On what planet do you expect people to accept your definition of reasonable expectations and opinions?
When you deal with the general public, you have to accept people as they are.
None of the unrealistic idiots are going to change because you complain on HBT or anywhere else.
A certain percentage of customers are always going to have some issue, some complaint.
All you can do is try to keep that number as low as possible and then you can say to yourself you've done your best.
 
I'm rambling already but last thing. I remember posting this thread 9 years ago: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/holy-bad-customer-service-batman-stpats-of-texas.37406/

I'm not at all saying that they way I was treated by the vendor was right, but I am starting to understand just a little bit.

in case you were wondering st pats is still one of the WORST companies to call with problems. or even just a question for that matter.

amazing they're still in business.

maybe start counting your customer service calls and limit yourself to every 100th call (1%) where you can speak your mind. that way you every so often you can just go ape-**** berzerk on somebody who deserves it. like a pressure relief for your sanity. and there'll still be 99 other folks who say "what a nice guy"!!!
 
I find it ridiculous that folks EXPECT that their packages are going to arrive on time, every time!
It doesn't work like that ! Stuff gets misplaced, dropped, left behind, truck was too full , driver was sick, etc. It's not a machine that runs 24/7 with 9-nines uptime and dependability , it's a bunch of human beings that do it. Folks need to chill, nobody dies because your beer kit didn't arrive on time.

Rule #1: There's no crying in the brewhouse.
 
I’ve always had great service and excellent equipment plus decent delivery from bh. I always recommend them. Thx for giving back so much to the home brewing community.
 
Screw those people Bob, you should scratch you a$$ with their brand new auto siphon and make sure you use the racking cane part
 
I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!

While I appreciate can-do attitude that goes with the "customer's always right" approach to business, I don't really buy it. In my business, I practice "the customer deserves to be treated with respect, and so do I".
 
I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!


Hey OP can you do a summary of this post for those of us who are busy. it's like 6 paragraphs long (3 is usually my max) and I've got stuff to do. Youtube vid or podcast would be OK I guess, I could listen to that while I'm waxing my moustache or flossing the cat.

Cheers
 
Hey OP can you do a summary of this post for those of us who are busy. it's like 6 paragraphs long (3 is usually my max) and I've got stuff to do. Youtube vid or podcast would be OK I guess, I could listen to that while I'm waxing my moustache or flossing the cat.

Cheers
Literally laughed out loud, too F'n funny!
 
I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!
OK,OK,OK I dont get delivery at home Mail (never here til about 630pm) or UPS ( they have disappeared more than once). So the answer was a PO Box. NOT, If the package says delivery on x day, I dont even check my po box for at least two more days. IF they dont lose it altogether. My Vent.... PO sucks.
 
I'm old enough (gasp) to remember the era of mailorder "as seen on TV" ads where the fast talking dude at the end would say "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery". Now, I realize we're in the same day Amazon Prime delivery era so we've come a long way.

I got an email today from a disgruntled customer who is upset that USPS estimated delivery yesterday but it's tracking several states away. It's obvious that USPS made a gross sorting error and it's taking longer than expected. I understand being disappointed about that. I've been on the receiving end of that many times.

What really took me back was the closing line of the email. "Will think twice before ordering from you again."

I replied with an explanation of what likely happened and that I was disappointed that he'd consider not using me as a vendor in the future due to a shipping carrier mistake. On what planet is this kind of opinion reasonable?

PSA to everyone. When you fire off an email to a vendor, please understand that it's a human on the other end. I put in 70+ hours a week trying to make everyone as happy as possible. I'm honored to have this career but there are days when I get two or three of these people busting my balls for similar issues.

Ok, just venting. Shots all around!
Send the guy one of these, complimentary of course.
[emoji12]

500f153d58cc176e4e209d5df06fd65f.jpg
 
I may as well use this thread to vent similar stories. I don't know if it's interesting to read but I don't have time for real therapy so....

Customer places an order Monday morning, the day we are super busy catching up with weekend orders. He sends it in online so it's in the queue like all the rest. No rush email, call or expedited shipping method selected.

By some miracle we got the order out the next day, 24 hours after the order came in. I must have seen that it was just for a single item and knew it was an easy one.

About an hour before the box was picked up, customer emails and said he won't be ordering from me anymore because he doesn't have time to figure out or remember which vendors have a same day shipping schedule and we just take too long to get orders out.

I responded with a brief explanation that we have never claimed to be able to turn orders same day and in fact, we are transparent about order volumes almost to a fault all over the website. I also said that if I would have seen that email right away, I would have canceled the order. (I only caught up with emails after all the pickups happened that day)

He responded with anger (big surprise) and wondered why I would be so abrasive with a customer that is looking to increase order sizes in the future.

Haha... the first email said he wasn't going to be placing anymore orders with me because it's too slow. So which is it?
Perma-banned account sir!
 
Bobby, when are you going to roll out your jet powered delivery drones so that everyone will have delivery the same day. Minutes later in the northeast. A couple of hours for most of the rest of the country and a few hours to the west coast. Of course there will still be problems with weather, causing a 20 minute delay - Thus, nasty customers - Problem not solved.
 
Bobby, I've only ordered from you once. I sent you an email in advance, listing the parts I found on your website that I thought would do what I needed. Right away I got an email back from you. I placed the order, and you shipped it right away. Everything worked perfectly. It doesn't get any better than that, and my order was just a small one. I wish everyone was as responsive and helpful as you are! Next time I need hardware, I know where to go.
 
As someone who was a customer service representative for several computer companies for several years, I can safely say that the a-hole % is about equal across ages, sexes and races.

About the only thing you can do is sort out the ones are just naturally abrasive and do have an issue they need help with and the ones that can't/won't/don't need to be helped.

As far as threats, cursing and other things go:
99% of not quite warranty or even not warranty at all stuff, can be handled, at the discretion of the csr....guess just how much chance you have of me saying "sure, we can bend the rules a bit for you" if you just behaved that way?

With friendly and (reasonably) honest talk, you'll usually get what you need/deserve and maybe even a bit more, start on the warpath, and you'll get the exact minimum that the law requires.
 
People treat others how they want be treated. Gotta give it back to them unless it's a legitimate screw up.

Maybe they just want a free argument.

 
Sometimes the interaction with a customer is so strange that I swear I'm being trolled. Here's another installment.

Customer orders $400+ in merch, we ship it out normally. A day later I get a frantically written email full of scorn and hellfire because the customer discovered via the UPS tracking page that the package had "signature required" listed. It ended with the proclamation that they will never order again because of how unreasonable it is to ship something with shipping required.

1. Our shipping policy page is clear about requiring signatures on order values over $150 (or $100 for apartments).
2. Our order confirmation email reminds customers to read our shipping policy and there's a direct link to it.
3. Our shipping confirmation email BEGs you to read the shipping policy page and it also says in that email that signatures may be required.
4. There are a half a dozen ways to get around having to be home to receive the package in addition to leaving your own signed note on the door. In fact, the customer had already selected one of the options listed on the UPS site:

Delivery Changes


  • Pick up at UPS Location
  • Deliver on Another Day
  • Deliver to Another Address
  • Leave with a Neighbor

Despite the crazy tirade I read through, I was still as polite as I could be and pleaded that we can't incur that kind of loss due to a stolen package. He still responded with fire and said "it's not a problem, I won't order again so it' a moot point".

I have to believe they were hoping they could claim it didn't show up to get the goods for free. What is your theory?
 
Sometimes the interaction with a customer is so strange that I swear I'm being trolled. Here's another installment.

Customer orders $400+ in merch, we ship it out normally. A day later I get a frantically written email full of scorn and hellfire because the customer discovered via the UPS tracking page that the package had "signature required" listed. It ended with the proclamation that they will never order again because of how unreasonable it is to ship something with shipping required.

1. Our shipping policy page is clear about requiring signatures on order values over $150 (or $100 for apartments).
2. Our order confirmation email reminds customers to read our shipping policy and there's a direct link to it.
3. Our shipping confirmation email BEGs you to read the shipping policy page and it also says in that email that signatures may be required.
4. There are a half a dozen ways to get around having to be home to receive the package in addition to leaving your own signed note on the door. In fact, the customer had already selected one of the options listed on the UPS site:

Delivery Changes


  • Pick up at UPS Location
  • Deliver on Another Day
  • Deliver to Another Address
  • Leave with a Neighbor

Despite the crazy tirade I read through, I was still as polite as I could be and pleaded that we can't incur that kind of loss due to a stolen package. He still responded with fire and said "it's not a problem, I won't order again so it' a moot point".

I have to believe they were hoping they could claim it didn't show up to get the goods for free. What is your theory?

They're aẞholes who don't care if your business flourishes or dies. They are the ones who are being unreasonable. Probably a millennial who thinks the world revolves around their schedule. Everybody has to flex accordingly, if they don't, they suck, and is not worthy of their business.

Fug'em you don't need the aggravation.
 
You could also try using FedEx. I got them to deliver two 10 gallon kettles to my local Walgreens. I could pick up anytime they're open and what fits into my schedule.

They would probably be annoyed that it's not dropped off at home. That it's SO inconvenient to obtain it from a secure business with long hours of being open to the public.

IMHO - I would generally say, most people in our hobby don't try pulling scam for free equipment.
 
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I have to believe they were hoping they could claim it didn't show up to get the goods for free. What is your theory?

I wouldn’t order to begin with, and certainly not again either if shipments were signature required. Especially at these relatively nominal value.

Unfortunate cost of doing business when you ship. One of the few things I like about amazon is that they will eat that risk. That’s why they’re winning.
 
  • What is your theory?

I'm surprised the type "moot" and not "mute". ;)

Seriously though, I've been burned by UPS signature policy a few times where they've ended up returning the merchandise because I was never home to sign for it. Once, they actually took my UPS signed note, and left another note saying that they wouldn't accept that as signature.

It was a small town with no porch pirates at all. I was irate. With UPS....not the business I ordered from...
 
I used to manufacture products used by other businesses who manufacture the end product ordered by their customers. I had 2-3 of these business customers who would claim that 2 out of 3 packages never arrived, even though I had delivery receipt from the shipping company that it was delivered to their shop.

I swapped to a policy of every order, no matter how $ insignificant, required signature for delivery. An amazing thing happened immediately upon my next shipment: I suddenly had zero instances where those customers didn't receive their goods as the shipping company said they did. Coincidence? I think not.
 
I'm surprised the type "moot" and not "mute". ;)

Seriously though, I've been burned by UPS signature policy a few times where they've ended up returning the merchandise because I was never home to sign for it. Once, they actually took my UPS signed note, and left another note saying that they wouldn't accept that as signature.

It was a small town with no porch pirates at all. I was irate. With UPS....not the business I ordered from...

You are in a small town with no porch pirates until you get pirated.
 
Like said earlier, my two Stout kettles MLT & HLT running about $1200 with the extra Tri-clovers. All got dropped to Walgreens. It was no problem to pick it up a few days later.

One time I had a package delivered to Redwing Shoes. Same good experience

Either one is a solution for a required signature. All I had to do is show an ID.

That's FedEx though....
 
Given the whole Amazon paradigm I'm not sure having to actually get in the family truckster and drive somewhere to pick something up from web retail is going to be satisfactory for most. It sure doesn't float my boat.

As it is there are times I have to walk ~50 yards and across the street to fetch a package some AMZL nitwit left leaning against our mailbox post. It's not the walk, mind you - it's the "we left this leaning against your mailbox post in plain view of every random passerby and way the eff from your actual house" thing...

Cheers!
 
You are in a small town with no porch pirates until you get pirated.

Meh.

Number of packages stolen in 10 years: 0

Number of packages returned to sender by UPS, thus causing couple week delays in getting my items: 2

Back to Bobby's question: people are stupid, have unreasonable expectations, and don't read.
 
Meh.

Number of packages stolen in 10 years: 0

Number of packages returned to sender by UPS, thus causing couple week delays in getting my items: 2

Back to Bobby's question: people are stupid, have unreasonable expectations, and don't read.

My exact sentiments....

I can be at home, have somebody at home to sign, ask for a rental office delivery, or select a convenient pick up location.

Pick something that works for you or buy at brick & mortar.
 
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