undercarbonated ...

[DesertFox]

my beer has been in bottles for 3 weeks now, when I pour it into a glass I see a little to no carbonation, but when I shook the bit I left in bottle it showed a very nice carbonation.

I tried pouring it every way possible and still don't get any head.

anyone knows what am I doing wrong? it's driving me crazy.

 

[Amadeo38]

Does it taste carbonated but just has no head? Have you tried rinsing your glass with Star-San first? Some detergents can leave a film that makes head retention terrible.

Otherwise, I’ll ask the usual, “were the bottles stored in warm enough temp for those three weeks?” question.

 

[DesertFox]

it was stored at 25C the whole time, there was no leakage, I primed in bottles 3/4 tsp of sucrose per bottle, and refrigerated for 48 hours.

the thing is that there IS head when I shake the bottle, but not in glass.

I wash my glass with hot water with no soap or any kind of chemical detergents. unfortunately I don't have access to star san as it's -believe it or not- illegal where I live! I usually sanitize my equipments with unscented chlorine.

 

[Amadeo38]

So what about my first question?

I’m also curious about the 7UP bottle. Is that what the beer was carbonated in, or did you just transfer it to that to shake it up? Not saying it’s bad, but I’ve just never seen it.

 

[DesertFox]

it does not taste carbonated.

and yes the beer was carbonated in those 7UP bottles, I live in a country where everything related to alcohol,beer,brewing and fun is illegal. So I don't have the luxury to use any of the fancy stuff you guys use. oh and one last thing I use bread yeast.

 

[Bubbles2]

I suspect the yeast. Try to get some brewing Yeast. Everything fun is illegal in my country too, except at my house.

One other thing is that the cold is how carb is forced into the brew. Cold temps force the C02 to permeate or immerse into the brew. Do you have fridge? Try putting a bottle into the fridge for a few days and see if that helped. IF NOT then off to the dark web for SAF ale 05 dry yeast packets.

 

[DesertFox]

I suspect the yeast. Try to get some brewing Yeast. Everything fun is illegal in my country too, except at my house.

One other thing is that the cold is how carb is forced into the brew. Cold temps force the C02 to permeate or immerse into the brew. Do you have fridge? Try putting a bottle into the fridge for a few days and see if that helped. IF NOT then off to the dark web for SAF ale 05 dry yeast packets.

I usually refrigerate my bottles for at least two days before opening, I'll try leaving them for a week to see if that makes a difference.

going to the dark web is too risky, I'm going on vacation in a couple of months, and I'll bring some beer yeast with me.

 

[Bubbles2]

I usually refrigerate my bottles for at least two days before opening, I'll try leaving them for a week to see if that makes a difference.

going to the dark web is too risky, I'm going on vacation in a couple of months, and I'll bring some beer yeast with me.

When Cannabis was suppressed in a state I previously lived in, I would order from sites out of the country, they wrap it up as something else. Got my seeds, fighting Draconian Tyranny.

American's; the original Terrorists, just ask an ass kissin Brit.

That yeast you are going to pick up abroad, you will be able to keep it alive and going for many batches. Study, and learn about harvesting & skimming. You can re-use yeast if you watch sanitation, use it soon and by all means trust no one. We call them Turn-Coats, they act like your friend but turn you in, enabling the Tyranny.

 

[DesertFox]

Yup that's the plan, washing and harvesting the yeast and use it for several batches.

My GF is on vacation now in her country I thought about asking her to sneak in some yeast when she come back, but she gets very nervous and I'm sure the customs officer will know she's hiding something just by looking at her face.

Using the dark web is a crime here, let alone ordering something highly illegal like YEAST.

Thanks for the advice, I do not trust anyone especially that I deal with religious close minded people.

 

[Bubbles2]

I am sure no one has spent a dime training dogs to smell brewers yeast, FWIW. Remove it from the wrapper like we have to do with Cuban Cigars. Heck bring old bakers yeast packs and switch out for the brewers yeast, put an oven mitt in with it and ship it. Those who wear a uniform are about as smart as a chimp.

 

[tgolanos]

How do you store the bread yeast? In a cupboard or in a refigerator?

I ask because I know from making bread that my dough never rises properly if I use yeast stored in the cupboard. Yeast stored in the fridge always works perfectly for me, though. Beer yeast and bread yeast are different, but they're yeast nonetheless, so I imagine storage techniques should be the same.

I'd try again with bread yeast before attempting to sneak anything in.

 

[DesertFox]

I am sure no one has spent a dime training dogs to smell brewers yeast, FWIW. Remove it from the wrapper like we have to do with Cuban Cigars. Heck bring old bakers yeast packs and switch out for the brewers yeast, put an oven mitt in with it and ship it. Those who wear a uniform are about as smart as a chimp.

yeah that's how I'm planning to sneak some yeast in, but I can't ask someone to take risk for me.

 

[DesertFox]

How do you store the bread yeast? In a cupboard or in a refigerator?

I ask because I know from making bread that my dough never rises properly if I use yeast stored in the cupboard. Yeast stored in the fridge always works perfectly for me, though. Beer yeast and bread yeast are different, but they're yeast nonetheless, so I imagine storage techniques should be the same.

I'd try again with bread yeast before attempting to sneak anything in.

I already tried it many times, my beer always end up undercarbonated. My beer clears very quickly in bottles. That means most of the yeast has dropped out of suspension.
I think it's either due to high abv although I doubt it, or bread yeast can't survive under pressure or relatively high amount of dissolved CO2.

I tried agitating the bottles, storing them at 30C, and leaving it for more than 3 weeks, but nothing worked.

 

[Bubbles2]

Google the difference between Baker and Brewer Yeast. You will see why it works but barely. Your last ditch effort would be to get a C02 infuser like they make for Soda.

 

[DesertFox]

Google the difference between Baker and Brewer Yeast. You will see why it works but barely. Your last ditch effort would be to get a C02 infuser like they make for Soda.

Presumably, baker's yeast produces more CO2 and less alcohol than brewer's yeast.
I'll just wait until I get my hands on brewer's yeast. for now bread yeast is the only way to go.
by the way I just checked on the bottles, they are rock hard which indicates there's a high amount of CO2, I really don't what's wrong here.

 

[DesertFox]

How do you store the bread yeast? In a cupboard or in a refigerator?

I ask because I know from making bread that my dough never rises properly if I use yeast stored in the cupboard. Yeast stored in the fridge always works perfectly for me, though. Beer yeast and bread yeast are different, but they're yeast nonetheless, so I imagine storage techniques should be the same.

I'd try again with bread yeast before attempting to sneak anything in.

ti answer your question, I don't keep the yeast after opening the pack, I buy it from the grocery store where they're kept on the shelf, I use one table spoon and dump the rest.

 

[Amadeo38]

If that’s the case, perhaps the co2 in the headspace is just not diffusing into the liquid. Have you tried chilling the carbonated bottle and shaking it vigorously for a few minutes then letting it chill again for everything to settle down to the bottom?

By the way - you’ve made me thankful for the homebrewing freedom we take for granted here in the U.S. Very cool that you’re persevering in the hobby in spite of The Man.

 

[bpgreen]

I used bread yeast once just as an experiment and it worked fine for me. It was 7 years ago, so I don't remember a lot of details, but from my notes, it was 6.5% ABV.

 

[DesertFox]

If that’s the case, perhaps the co2 in the headspace is just not diffusing into the liquid. Have you tried chilling the carbonated bottle and shaking it vigorously for a few minutes then letting it chill again for everything to settle down to the bottom?

By the way - you’ve made me thankful for the homebrewing freedom we take for granted here in the U.S. Very cool that you’re persevering in the hobby in spite of The Man.

I shook few bottles this morning and put them back in the fridge, I hope this helps.
you're thinking in the right direction. thank you so much for taking the time to reply and help.

Actually it's not a hobby as it's a necessity, alcohol is prohibited here, and this is the only way to enjoy a beer.

but now it's turning into obsession, I think I'm gonna keep brewing even after I leave this country.

 

[DesertFox]

I used bread yeast once just as an experiment and it worked fine for me. It was 7 years ago, so I don't remember a lot of details, but from my notes, it was 6.5% ABV.

yes they say bread yeast dies when abv exceeds 8%. well I don't know the alcohol percentage in my beer, but I use 500g of sucrose in 5 gallons batch

 

[Amadeo38]

but now it's turning into obsession, I think I'm gonna keep brewing even after I leave this country.

Hopefully that departure is sooner rather than later!

 

[Bubbles2]

No beer is grounds for a revolution!

 

[DesertFox]

No beer is grounds for a revolution!

I always say, it's ironic that alcohol is banned in the country where you need it the most, there are a million of reasons for a revolution, but beer makes you forget. So I couldn't agree more.

 

[DesertFox]

If that’s the case, perhaps the co2 in the headspace is just not diffusing into the liquid. Have you tried chilling the carbonated bottle and shaking it vigorously for a few minutes then letting it chill again for everything to settle down to the bottom?

So I just opened one of the bottles I shook, the carbonation is better but still undercarbonated, I'm starting to believe that I should prime with more sugar. I add 3/4 tsp of table sugar per 500ml bottle, I'm gonna double it in my next batch.

Thanks a lot man, you've been very helpful.

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

So I just opened one of the bottles I shook, the carbonation is better but still undercarbonated, I'm starting to believe that I should prime with more sugar. I add 3/4 tsp of table sugar per 500ml bottle, I'm gonna double it in my next batch.

Thanks a lot man, you've been very helpful.

Your ambient temperature when you start the process might mean that there is no residual CO2 left in there at all. At 24 deg C, 3 grams/500 ml should be bringing you to about 2.5 vols, but at 28 deg C, it will be just under 2.4. That doesn't seem like a big enough swing, but it might be a factor

Increasing sugar is probably the right step. Not sure I would double it though, not in one step. If you are doing it bottle by bottle rather than at the batch level, I would suggest you do an experiment with a single batch and a progression of priming sugar amounts to dial in the behaviour of the yeast you are using.

 

[DesertFox]

Your ambient temperature when you start the process might mean that there is no residual CO2 left in there at all. At 24 deg C, 3 grams/500 ml should be bringing you to about 2.5 vols, but at 28 deg C, it will be just under 2.4. That doesn't seem like a big enough swing, but it might be a factor

Increasing sugar is probably the right step. Not sure I would double it though, not in one step. If you are doing it bottle by bottle rather than at the batch level, I would suggest you do an experiment with a single batch and a progression of priming sugar amounts to dial in the behaviour of the yeast you are using.

It's very hard to control the temperature especially now in summer when it's about 45C outside.

you've got a point about the amount of sugar, but the thing is that it's way under-carbonated, and I'm inpatient.

My friend has a batch in process, he used 1tsp per bottle, I'll wait to see how his beer will come out then decide how much to add.

Here's a live picture, there was a little head retention when I poured it, then disappeared in less than a minute ...

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

It's very hard to control the temperature especially now in summer when it's about 45C outside.

you've got a point about the amount of sugar, but the thing is that it's way under-carbonated, and I'm inpatient.

My friend has a batch in process, he used 1tsp per bottle, I'll wait to see how his beer will come out then decide how much to add.

Here's a live picture, there was a little head retention when I poured it, then disappeared in less than a minute ...

That is what I was thinking - depending on where you are, your ambient temperature could be well over 100F(37C), which would mean you would need 0.5 grams more sugar per 500ml, as compared to 70F.

If you can get access to wheat malt, that would help head retention, which in turn makes lower carbonation more palatable.

Are you detecting sweetness in your beer that would suggest the yeast isn't completely using the priming sugar?

 

[DesertFox]

That is what I was thinking - depending on where you are, your ambient temperature could be well over 100F(37C), which would mean you would need 0.5 grams more sugar per 500ml, as compared to 70F.

If you can get access to wheat malt, that would help head retention, which in turn makes lower carbonation more palatable.

Are you detecting sweetness in your beer that would suggest the yeast isn't completely using the priming sugar?

According to priming sugar calculators I need 3g of sucrose per 500ml bottle to reach 2.5 volume of CO2 if the temperature of the beer is 80F (26C) which is the temperature in my kitchen.
I did some math, and found out that 3/4 tsp of sucrose is 3g, yet I'm still way under my desired level of carbonation.
The beer does not taste sweet at all. so that's why I decided to add more sugar.

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

According to priming sugar calculators I need 3g of sucrose per 500ml bottle to reach 2.5 volume of CO2 if the temperature of the beer is 80F (26C) which is the temperature in my kitchen.
I did some math, and found out that 3/4 tsp of sucrose is 3g, yet I'm still way under my desired level of carbonation.
The beer does not taste sweet at all. so that's why I decided to add more sugar.

If the sucrose is being taken up, it is actually quite hard to figure out what is going on. Your yeast should be producing more CO2 than conventional brewing yeast. If you trust the seal on your bottles and you are not tasting any unexpected sweetness, the CO2 produced must be less than expected - which makes me wonder about the purity of that sugar.

If increasing the sugar content doesn't work, I would suggest trying some bottles with an appropriate amount of honey.

 

[DesertFox]

If the sucrose is being taken up, it is actually quite hard to figure out what is going on. Your yeast should be producing more CO2 than conventional brewing yeast. If you trust the seal on your bottles and you are not tasting any unexpected sweetness, the CO2 produced must be less than expected - which makes me wonder about the purity of that sugar.

If increasing the sugar content doesn't work, I would suggest trying some bottles with an appropriate amount of honey.

using honey has come to my mind, but I was worried about the flavor honey might add to the beer.

I think you're right about the purity of sugar. Sugar here has bigger crystals, and ever since I moved here I use more sugar than I used to in order to reach the same level of sweetness.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

using honey has come to my mind, but I was worried about the flavor honey might add to the beer.

I think you're right about the purity of sugar. Sugar here has bigger crystals, and ever since I moved here I use more sugar than I used to in order to reach the same level of sweetness.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.

I would not be concerned about the flavour honey gives to beer - I am bottling a grapefruit honey ale this weekend, which has honey in the primary fermentation, and I will use honey for the carbonation. May not to be your tastes, but most people find it pleasant. I'd give it a try - if nothing else, it is a lot harder to cut honey with other material than table sugar, and most of the material you can (corn syrup) is also fairly high in fermentable sugars.

From what you are saying, it doesn't sound like there are nonfermentable sweeteners in the sugar, so I really don't know why the crystals would be bigger. But if you are using more sugar for other purposes, it seems likely that when you put 3/4 tsp of sugar, you are not giving the yeast 3/4 tsp of sucrose. At a very basic level, if fermentation is happening, Co2 is being produced, and you are not tasting residual sweetness. You do not believe your bottles are leaking Co2, so there are not many other possibilities other than the Co2 being produced is simply not enough. But your yeast is from a strain that is better at producing Co2 than it is at producing alcohol. If the fermentation was stalling because of the alcohol levels, you would have unutilized sugar.

As a control, I would suggest the honey. You might find you like it anyway. It may just be that you need to use significantly more than 3/4 tsp to actually deliver 3/4 tsp of sucrose.

Best of luck...

 

[DesertFox]

As a control, I would suggest the honey. You might find you like it anyway. It may just be that you need to use significantly more than 3/4 tsp to actually deliver 3/4 tsp of sucrose.

If I want to use honey or corn syrup instead of sucrose, how to know how much to add?

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

If I want to use honey or corn syrup instead of sucrose, how to know how much to add?

Here is a calculator that has various sugars. It shows 4.2 grams of honey for the example above (500 ml/80F). Corn syrup is 4.5g

https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator

 

[DesertFox]

Here is a calculator that has various sugars. It shows 4.2 grams of honey for the example above (500 ml/80F). Corn syrup is 4.5g

https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator

I can't thank you enough!

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

I can't thank you enough!

Let us know how it goes!

 

[JPDosey]

What country are you in? You may be able to find a local source.

 

[DesertFox]

What country are you in? You may be able to find a local source.

I live in Saudi Arabia. I've tried so hard to find a source but couldn't.

 

[DesertFox]

so, I did two batches, primed the first one with sucrose with double the amount (1.5 tsp per 500ml bottle), and it carbonated very well. thick head of foam, and tasted awesome.

primed the second with corn syrup, 200g for 5 gallon batch, turned out under carbonated. So I guess bread yeast requires more sugar to reach the desired level of carbonation than brewer's yeast. I know it should be the opposite, but this is what I found out.

 

[DownstairsBrewing]

so, I did two batches, primed the first one with sucrose with double the amount (1.5 tsp per 500ml bottle), and it carbonated very well. thick head of foam, and tasted awesome.

primed the second with corn syrup, 200g for 5 gallon batch, turned out under carbonated. So I guess bread yeast requires more sugar to reach the desired level of carbonation than brewer's yeast. I know it should be the opposite, but this is what I found out.

Whatever works! Interesting that that would be the case, makes you wonder what alternative byproduct pathway it is using.

 

[Bubbles2]

so, I did two batches, primed the first one with sucrose with double the amount (1.5 tsp per 500ml bottle), and it carbonated very well. thick head of foam, and tasted awesome.

primed the second with corn syrup, 200g for 5 gallon batch, turned out under carbonated. So I guess bread yeast requires more sugar to reach the desired level of carbonation than brewer's yeast. I know it should be the opposite, but this is what I found out.

So that is good, I was just thinking about you today when I was cracking open a ginger beer N/A but I use Close De Bois wine yeast to ferment and it is way over carbed... Good news for you. Also give some thought about a care package mailed with odds and ends and no orig packaging... I have an embargo on Cuba as if they are going to build an army...LOL on Cigars and I get em but no bands....Peace.