Types of Spruce Needles

[cowboymcd82]

Last Christmas, I made a beer with spruce extract, and, well, it wasn't amazing. Probably a combination of reasons as well as the spruce, but either way, I looked into actually using real spruce the next time I did it. Apparently, the best time for harvesting those is around now.

Anyways, I can't find much information about what kind of spruce needles work. Any kind? Could I just take the needles from the trees outside my apartment, or do they have to be a specific kind? If so... how would I figure out if a tree is that type?

 

[Skyforger]

Well, they don't have to be a specific kind. I'm sure those with experience have opinions about which trees are best; I know of one commercial beer flavored with red pine. But it's not as though you'll poison yourself; all pines, spruces, firs, etc. are non-poisonous (think pine-nuts. Also, Native americans used to eat pine bark, drink whitecedar tree, use pine resin as medicine....).

Crush the needles. Smell them. Is that the aroma you want in the beer? If not, try another species. If you want to start identifying, just get a field guide or look one up online. Conifers tend to be pretty simple to identify; you can tell a lot just from the shape, number, and growing pattern of the needles, and the barks are often distinctive.

I would avoid trees in areas where pesticides, fertilizers, etc. are sprayed or spread. That stuff can get into the tree's biomass. The traditional part of the spruce (or pine, or whatever) to use is the freshly-growing tips of the branches - the new growth of spring. Bear in mind that whatever branches you cut the tips from will have curtailed growth this year, possibly longer.

 

[cowboymcd82]

Awesome answer, thanks! That was very helpful, exactly what I wanted to know.

I guess I'll look into it this week then, and start thinking up a good recipe.

 

[PolishStout]

the "Homebrewer's Garden" book says to use the soft new growth tips of the branches.

I can let you know tomorrow exactly how it says to use them

Edit: I found a few pages from the book on 'google books' but the exact page on using spruce is not shown in the book preview. However it does show a recipe for a spruce beer.
Here's the link here, but I don't know if it will work.

If it doesn't, here is the recipe:

"SPRUCE BEER

"Spruce beer was brewed during the American Revolution as a tonic for the troops, but it was a crude, molasses-based beverage with a strong piney flavor. This version is much more palatable, with spruce and molasses accents to recall its historic ancestry.

"Some brewers recommend the use of spruce essence in beer, but we'd rather use the real thing. Spruce essence is too strong except in minute doses, and you can easily end up with a beer that tastes like turpentine.

"YIELD: 5 gallons (19L) - Initial Gravity: 1.045-1.050 - Final Gravity: 1.012-1.018

1/2 pound (227g) crystal malt
1/3 pound (150g) roasted malt
1/3 pound (150g) chocolate malt
1/4 pound (112g) rye malt
1/4 pound (112g) black patent malt
6 pounds (2.7kg) Northwest dark malt extract syrup
1/2 cup (120ml) molasses

2 oz (55g) Hallertauer hops for bittering, AA 5%, HBU 10
1-4 oz (28-112g) spruce tips

1packet Whitbread ale yeast
2/3 cup (160ml) corn sugar for priming

1. Add the crushed malts to 1.5 gallons (6L) cold water and bring to a slow boil over 30 minutes. Strain and rinse with 0.5 gallon (2L) 170*F (77*C) water. Add the extract and molasses and return the mixture to a boil.

2. Add 2 ounces (56g) Hallertauer hops and spruce. Boil 60 minutes.

3. Strain hot wort into a fermenter containing 1.5 gallons (6L) of chilled water. Rinse with 0.5 gallon (2L) boiled water. Top up to 5 gallons (19L). Pitch yeast when wort cools to 70*F (21*C).

4. Ferment at ale temperatures (65 to 70*F, 18-21*C). Bottle with priming sugar when fermentation ceases (1 to 2 weeks).

5. Age 3 to 6 weeks before drinking.

~~~~~

ALL-GRAIN VERSION

7 pounds (3kg) Klages malt
1 pound (454g) wheat malt
1.25 pounds (560g) 60*L British crystal malt
1 pound (454g) roasted barley
0.5 pound (227g) black patent malt

Mash-in grains, stabilize at 153*F (67*C), and hold 90 minutes. Sparge at 170*F (67*C) and collect 5.5 gallons (21L) runoff. Proceed with recipe."


page 165
--"The Homebrewer's Garden: How to easily grow, prepare, and use your own hops, malts and brewing herbs"; Fisher, Joe and Dennis

 

[mkling]

They should look like this:

Just use those light green tips. The fresher and softer, the better.

 

[cowboymcd82]

Thanks! That's perfect. I was planning on doing something very similar to that recipe....

And that picture is very helpful. I think I can figure it out now. Thanks a lot!

 

[badhabit]

I have used Blue Spruce. I collected 4 oz for 5 gal batch just as the new buds were starting to open, a little before even what is in the preceeding picture. The beer turned out fine and was not overpoweringly sprucie.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Last Christmas, I made a beer with spruce extract, and, well, it wasn't amazing. Probably a combination of reasons as well as the spruce, but either way, I looked into actually using real spruce the next time I did it. Apparently, the best time for harvesting those is around now.

Anyways, I can't find much information about what kind of spruce needles work. Any kind? Could I just take the needles from the trees outside my apartment, or do they have to be a specific kind? If so... how would I figure out if a tree is that type?

Here's some info I was able to dig up:


Black spruce, Picea mariana, is an ideal evergreen to plant in wet, soggy soil, because that’s where you’ll typically find it in northern forests. Also known as bog spruce, swamp spruce, eastern spruce and shortleaf black spruce.

Wood of the black spruce is soft, lightweight and strong, used as framing and construction lumber, for planking and for pulp. Needles are distilled for perfume and as a key ingredient of spruce beer.

Black spruce is greatly appreciated by wildlife. In nature it provides good cover for moose and other large mammals. It also serves as a food source for spruce grouse, snowshoe hare, red squirrels, various mice species, voles, shrews, chipmunks and birds.


Black spruce is also used in making spruce chewing gum, here's a link:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/1981-01-01/Spruce-Chewing-Gum.aspx
Hope that helps. Regards, GF.

 

[cowboymcd82]

Thanks again.

Well, I got some needles from the trees around here, and from what I can tell, they're the new, fresh ones that are best. Glad I wasn't too late.

I just want to make sure I ask the experienced people here if I'm doing it right before I start brewing this weekend, so I've attached a couple of pictures of what I've harvested (turns out I need a lot more too! ended up being nowhere near the 4oz I was hoping for)

 

[PolishStout]

kinda hard to tell with te larger needles you got, but the smaller ones look spot on.

as long as they're soft and not really pokey, that's what you're looking for.

however, it looks like these are from a white pine rather than a spruce.

SPRUCE TIPS

PINE TIPS

 

[cowboymcd82]

Yea. I figured it wouldn't be the "standard" or whatever, that's kind of why I posted the thread.... I think that's about all I kind find around here. But based on skyforger's post, what I have should be fine, right?

Lol, and yea, I don't think the long ones are the right kind. I tried to pull of the smaller ones and the whole branch came off, if you look closely you'll see there's small ones in the middle. I just took the whole branch instead of messing with it, haha.

 

[PolishStout]

yes, i did notice the small cluster in the larger branch.

if you decide to use them, keep us posted as to how the taste turns out. I wonder what the difference would be between spruce and pine

 

[incutrav]

White pine needles will work fine. Dont be afraid of the old growth needles either. Everything I had read before I made my first spruce beer last year said to NEVER use the old growth. After picking a bag full of the new growth tips, i boiled some and made a spruce tea of sorts. The flavor and aromoa was so slight, you could hardly detect any spruce qualities. I then cut some branches down and took a scisorrs and cut the older growth needles off and made a tea from them. Explosion of piney goodness. I just brewed an IPA last weekend using ONLY old growth needles. i bittered w/ Simcoe, and in a blind 'smelling test', it was awful tough to tell the simcoe hops from the old growth spruce needles that i had in a cup. Great aroma. I do only use the needles late in the boil however, as when chewing on a few, they are quite bitter, and I really dont want to risk 5 gallons of beer by bittering w/ spruce. I did enter my Spruce IPA in a few comps last year, and all the judges said "way to much spruce" or "lighten up", but i really enjoyed it, as it was a piney bomb. Just depends on how much you like pine. Good luck!

 

[cowboymcd82]

I'll definitely keep ya'll updated.

And good information, incutrav. How much spruce did you use each time? I'm thinking I'm going to make a brown ale this weekend with 4oz in the boil, then add 1-2oz after fermentation for aroma, much like dry-hopping.

 

[cowboymcd82]

I was originally planning (and still am) to make a more complex brown ale involving the pine, a partial mash, and maybe some other special ingredients... but I realized today that it would be a very good idea to test the pine in a simple, relatively cheap half-batch, especially since I don't have a definitive idea of what the pine will be like vs. spruce.

So, I adjusted my favorite recipe for a pale ale and came up with this idea (2.5gal):

3-4# DME
1/2# C60
1oz Chinook - 11.5AA @ 60min.
4oz new growth pine @ 5min./flameout
2oz. old growth pine @ 7 days

What do you think? I figure using only bittering hops, and then pine at the very end, should give it the full pine flavor I'm looking for...

I'm also debating on whether to use something closer to the brown ale recipe I had in mind, just to get an idea of what it will be like in something closer to my goal:

3# DME
1/4# C-80
1/4# Chocolate Malt
1/4oz Columbus - 12.2AA @ 60min
4oz new growth pine @ 5min/flameout
2oz new growth pine @ 7 days


Thoughts? Contributions?

I plan on brewing this up tomorrow, I'll get back to you guys about how it goes!

 

[PolishStout]

the recipes I've read call for the spruce, in your case pine, to be thrown in with the bittering hops.

but who knows. experiment! let us know how it is!

 

[cowboymcd82]

With the bittering hops? Doesn't that pretty much destroy all the flavor/aroma, and just extract the stuff that makes it bitter?

I was basing the additions on incutrav's comment that adding with bittering hops would make it really bitter

 

[DaleP]

Spruce tips are also a source of fermentables. Taste some, slightly sweet hints of wintergreen and evergreen. Traditionally thrown in the start of the boil. I make this ale about every year, enjoy it in late fall (my version is in the 8-10% range).

 

[boo boo]

Some nice tips there guys ( pardon the pun ) and I think I'll harvest a bunch to use later this year.
It might be a nice addition to my chinook pale ale.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Yep, looks like white pine to me too. I wouldn't brew with pine, might taste like pine-sol, or worse, introduce toxins to your beer. Get real spruce. If you can't find it or are having trouble identifying it, call your local county extension agent. Regards, GF.