Two strikes enter ... one mash leaves.

[retheisen]

So I had this crazy idea. Wanna hear it? Here it goes.

Let's say I dough in my mash at a normal to lowish strike temp of about 130 degrees. Go for a thin mash and let it rest for 10 or 15 minutes to extract the enzymes. Then run off half of my 130 degree runnings immediately and set them aside with all of my nice beta amylase intact. Then strike a second time this time shooting for a thicker mash and say 158 degrees. Stir is up and let the alpha work for 45 minutes or so (uncovered and cooling for the duration of the mash). Hopefully after the 45 minutes is up the mash will have cooled to say 145. Now add those first runnings (with the beta sill in there) back to into the mash to go to work chomping on the polysaccharides that the alpha gave us. Let that work for 30 minutes or so then mash out / sparge as usual. I may need to add some 6 row to increase the enzyme content but I think it would get me a highly fermentable wort without killing my extraction efficiency.

Has anyone ever tried a double strike mash?

 

[brewkinger]

Hmmmmm.....

Subbed for content.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Komocabo]

Never tried it... subbed!

 

[retheisen]

So I just threw together this https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/big-bad-barney-blueberry-red-ipa recipe based on what I have on hand and will try this method Friday night. The proof will be in the final gravity pudding. We should have some anecdotal evidence by the end of next week.

 

[aspiffymofo]

Would you need to keep the first runnings warm? I'm looking forward to how this turns out!

 

[retheisen]

The enzymes should survive a low temperature just fine. Beta works best between 140 and 150 but is denatured once it hits 155 or so. No problem letting it fall to under 100 degrees. I should certainly keep it warm enough that it does not cool off the mash too much when added back, but not so warm as to denature the beta enzymes.

 

[retheisen]

Update:

So I just finished up with the brew of the https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/big-bad-barney-blueberry-red-ipa test batch.

I started with 12 pounds of two row, 1 pound of caravienne, and 8 ounces of roasted barley.

I heated about 3 gallons of water to 154 degrees and threw it in my 5 gallon mash tun. I added the base malt and then topped up to the very top with probably another half gallon of hot water. The temp settled at 142-144 and I let the grains steep for about 20 minutes while I heated another three gallons of water.

I ran off just under two gallons of liquid (about 135 degrees now) and set them aside in a separate 16 quart stock pot and added 175 degree water to the mash and stirred taking temp readings until I got to 158. It took about two and a half gallons to get to 158. I stirred in the specialty malts, closed up the mash tun, and let it sit for 45 minutes. I discarded the remaining second strike water.

I started collecting 155 degree liquid in my boil kettle to make room in my mash tun for my "first runoff" that had cooled to 127 (in the 16 quart stock pot) during the mash. I ended up splitting the first runoff between the liquid in the boil kettle and the mash tun. Stirred up and closed the mash tun and let it settle in at about 142 for 20 minutes. At the 5 minute mark I started heating the liquid in the boil kettle.

After the 20 minute "late beta rest" I ran off liquid into my 16 quart stock pot and started sparging with the (now hot) boil kettle liquid. Once all of the boil kettle liquid had been added to the sparge I moved the "second first runnings" to the boil kettle (a larger mash tun would have saved me some lifting and pouring here) and started started collecting real runnings.

I ended up sparging with an additional 3.5 gallons of 175 degree water and collecting a total of about 7 gallons of wort.

The mash took about 120 minutes in all.

Normal one hour boil, cool, transfer, pitch.



So here are the final numbers.

12 pounds of base malt
1 pound of caravienne
.5 pound of roasted barley

1 oz summit at 60 minutes (It smelled like I was making soup during the boil ... in kind of a good way)
1 oz pacific gem at 10 minutes (I am convinced I smell berry in this stuff)
.5 oz mosaic at flameout

After cooling my wort I ended up collecting 5.5 gallons of 1.082 liquid from 13.5 pounds of grain. About 91% efficiency.

I mill at home and conditioned the base malt with about a cup of water 30 minutes before milling.

I milled twice with a tighter clearance the second time since some of the caravienne did not break the first time through.

The spent grain has absolutely no smell or flavor. It is truly "spent"

I am hoping to see some blowoff tube action tomorrow morning.

I'll update with a gravity reading when I transfer to secondary next weekend.

The color came out a very nice red.

 

[retheisen]

So after just shy of two weeks in the primary fermenter (now with minimal airlock activity), I grab the carboy and transfer the beer onto 1 oz of Pacific Gem and a half oz of mosaic for its last 5 to 7 days before kegging.

The OG was 1.082 ... the reading after 13 days in the primary (7 days at 68 and 6 days at 72/73) is 1.014. I was hoping to get closer to 1.010 1.009 but that would be asking a lot of US-05 I think.

Overall I think that being able to get 5 gallons of clear/clean 9% abv beer from 13.5 pounds of grain with no adjuncts in just under 3 weeks is a win.

The flavor of the gravity sample had strong bitterness with some definite upfront hop aroma and flavor. I am chilling the sample now to see if the berry comes forward a bit more.

Was it worth the extra hour playing with the mash to get the result? Maybe. It was a fun experiment. I might try again with a more modest grain bill to see if it was the yeast that gave out on this batch or the sugars.

I'll post another update when it is carbed up and in a proper glass.

 

[retheisen]

So since this batch is all about experimenting ... I threw my hydrometer sample into a sodastream bottle, chilled it, then threw some co2 at it (the level of the liquid was well below the end of the c02 injector on the sodastream machine so it did not foam up excessively) and let it sit under pressure for 10 minutes or so.

I poured it off to a cold glass and got a super foamy head. Laced like nobody's business. I had to swirl a finger in the foam for a long time to get it to start subsiding.

There is still some sweetness ... maybe a little too sweet for an IPA but it does give the aura of sweet berry flavor to the beer. There is a ghost of roastiness from the roasted barley. Deep red color. Cream colored head. I really enjoy this beer. Nothing funky about it . No off flavor. No perceptible tannin (I was worried about that with the mash manipulations). No alcohol presence aside from a warm feeling all over now that it has been 15 minutes since I finished the approximately 10oz sample.

I think the dry hopping will improve this beer. But so far I really like it. I am hoping to get a bottle or two down to the local brewpub to get a second opinion.

 

[tootal]

I've heard some other folks talk of similar ventures in "reverse mashing" to gain higher alcohol. It has always been my opinion that it would make a really lousy beer because it would have no mouth feel. Basically alcoholic water! However, in your case, the alcohol was high enough that it stopped the US 05 from getting it there. In other words I think if your alcohol level had been lower the beer would not have been as good as you got. A lot thinner anyway.

Like I said, I've heard a lot of folks talk about doing this but this is the first time I've read that somebody acted on it. Basically your doing what it takes to make ultra light beer. Macro brewerys do high gravity brewing and then add enzymes to produce more fermentable sugars and then they take that ultra high alcohol beer and water it down to 4 to 5 percent alcohol. Now it has less calories and carbs! You just did the same thing, only doing it naturally.