Two Step Yeast Starter Help

[nick sekerak]

I am making a two step starter for my next brew. I am under the gun for time.

My question is, are there any ill effects from just adding the second step's wort on top of the wort from the first step??? I normally cold crash and decant the spent off the yeast cake before adding the wort for the second step??

 

[Vale71]

Either than the increase in volume and not getting rid of the alcohol then no, I'd say there are no significant side effects.
What size step are with talking? Is it more like 10:1 or 2:1?

 

[nick sekerak]

each step is 2L

 

[Vale71]

Maybe I'm understanding you wrong, but if each step is the same size then you're not doing a stepped starter anyway, you're just wasting DME with the secon step.

 

[robertlhawley]

I’ve always had great results just pitching everything. I go about 5:1 with about 400 ml first stage (from slant) and 2000 ml second stage. A friend who’s a microbiologist told me there’s a lot of goodness in the liquid you’d be pouring out...

 

[Jtvann]

Maybe I'm understanding you wrong, but if each step is the same size then you're not doing a stepped starter anyway, you're just wasting DME with the secon step.

Vale71 is right. Yeast have exponential growth. Your 2nd starter needs to be larger than your first. Your first 2L starter is fine, but the 2nd one isnt getting you anything. If you're just trying to make a 4L starter 1 and 3 would be better than 2 and 2.

 

[brewbama]

Have you considered the Shaken Not Stirred starter vs the traditional method you’re using? The beauty is it takes less time and the yeast are in the exponential growth phase when you pitch. ...just a thought.

 

[kh54s10]

I’ve always had great results just pitching everything. I go about 5:1 with about 400 ml first stage (from slant) and 2000 ml second stage. A friend who’s a microbiologist told me there’s a lot of goodness in the liquid you’d be pouring out...

Yes there is a lot of yeast in suspension in the "beer" that you are decanting. But that "beer" has been brewed in conditions not favorable for good flavor. I don't want that in my beers, so anything over 1 liter, I cold crash and decant. Most of the yeast is then in the cake at the bottom of the flask.

 

[nick sekerak]

Vale71 is right. Yeast have exponential growth. Your 2nd starter needs to be larger than your first. Your first 2L starter is fine, but the 2nd one isnt getting you anything. If you're just trying to make a 4L starter 1 and 3 would be better than 2 and 2.

I was just checked my pitch calculator says that if i do a 2L for the first step and a 3L for the second step i will have the right amount. So... that my new plan.

So if i add the 3L of wort on top of the 2L(from 1st step) would that be any issues? Then i would crash & decant before pitching.

 

[Terpene]

Yes there is a lot of yeast in suspension in the "beer" that you are decanting. But that "beer" has been brewed in conditions not favorable for good flavor. I don't want that in my beers, so anything over 1 liter, I cold crash and decant. Most of the yeast is then in the cake at the bottom of the flask.

I'm not sure it ultimately matters. Excellent beer gets brewed both ways.

Any off flavor compounds in the starter should get used up or cleaned up in the main fermentation, assuming proper fermentation conditions.

In principle, the cold crash and warming cycle is stressful on the yeast. But, again, great beer gets brewed with cold crashed starters, so l don't think it matters at the end of the day. Other variables are much more important, IMHO.

 

[Terpene]

I was just checked my pitch calculator says that if i do a 2L for the first step and a 3L for the second step i will have the right amount. So... that my new plan.

So if i add the 3L of wort on top of the 2L(from 1st step) would that be any issues? Then i would crash & decant before pitching.

Nick, strongly recommend you read this white paper on yeast propagation:

https://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices

All yeast starter questions answered, including proper step up ratios.