two different Pliny the Elder clones...Which one?

[Bonesey]

Anyone with a few Pliny clones under their belts wish to chime in regarding the different hop additions in these recipes? The PDF one has a 2.5 oz at 0 min, while the 365 one has simcoe instead. 365 has much more DH, with CTZ 2x more than the other hops, while the PDF one has all the same DH amnts. I've been lurking on this site long enough to know the answer to this question: RDWHAHB!

http://www.brew365.com/beer_pliny_the_elder.php

1.5 oz - Chinook (First Wort or Mash Hop)
2.75 oz - Warrior (90 Min.)
.5 oz - Chinook (90 Min.)
1 oz - Simcoe (45 Min.)
1 oz - Columbus (30 Min.)
2.25 oz - Centennial (Flameout)
1 oz - Simcoe (Flameout)
3.25 oz - Columbus (Dry Hop)
1.75 oz - Centennial (Dry Hop)
1.75 oz - Simcoe (Dry Hop)


this one looks like it came right from RR:
http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny the Elder clone PDF.pdf

 

[schristian619]

ThePDF version looks like the one I've seen before. Vinnie from russian river handed out a recipe for it a few years back at a homebrewers conference. I think BYO has the same version if you can find that. Its also more complete with the multiple dry hop schedule.

 

[remilard]

I think the first one was the recipe quite a while ago.

The second one is more recent (the double dry hopping has been a feature for many years at least).

Neither is current as hop extract has been used for the bittering addition in recent years.

If you don't want to mess with hop extract, use the second one. You could consider replacing the earliest additions with HopShot from Northern Brewer as this will substantially cut down on the hop crap in the kettle. I've used it on a few recent beers with good success (include a 1st place IIPA in the NHC first round). For IIPA, ~6 gallons before hop losses, I use 2 of them at 60 minutes and get a handful of additional IBUs at 15 minutes. Not a Pliny clone though.

 

[Scimmia]

exactly, they're both from Vinnie, but the first one's older. The mash hop is a dead give away. The story is that they used to do that but stopped because the farmer that gets the spent grain can't feed it with hops in it. Don't know if it's true, but that's the story that gets told.

 

[kgfitz]

sorry stupid question.. both recipe call for 1 pound of corn sugar. do you add that stright to the wort?? i can't see putting it in the mash tun then trying to get all the sugar back out. sorry still a noob

 

[bovineblitz]

sorry stupid question.. both recipe call for 1 pound of corn sugar. do you add that stright to the wort?? i can't see putting it in the mash tun then trying to get all the sugar back out. sorry still a noob

add it to the boil, I usually add it with 15min or so left and stir

 

[oldschool]

I listened to the vinnie episode of the brewing network. He said that none of the recipes for pliny he's handed out has intended to be an exact clone, just a good starting place for a double IPA. He also said that he uses hop extract for bittering at a 90 and 30 minute addition. He also says now that he uses a little amarillo in addition to all the other hops just to spice it up a little bit. Says he gets bored doing the same ole thing all the time.

 

[kgfitz]

add it to the boil, I usually add it with 15min or so left and stir

thanks for the info i thought it was something like that. Just trying to get all the information i can. This is my next brew and with that many hops i don't want to screw this one up.

 

[benko]

thanks for the info i thought it was something like that. Just trying to get all the information i can. This is my next brew and with that many hops i don't want to screw this one up.

With that many hops, it's tough to screw this one up. I just kegged Jamil's Hophammer (a Pliny based recipe from Brewing Classic Styles), which is pretty much the version you have in the original post. It was pretty damn close and tasted awesome. As long as you use a similar grain bill (lots of two row, a little light crystal, and a little sugar) and somewhat follow the hopping rates/schedule, you'll be really close. The key is the Columbus/Centennial/Simcoe combo. If there's anything to stick to, it's those hops. They complement each other so well and really make the beer.

 

[benko]

One more thing. If you're doing 5 gallon batches, definately increase the grain/liquid to end up with at least 6 gallons (preferably 6.5 gallons) at the end of the boil. For me, that meant I needed to start with more than 8 gallons of wort at the beginning of the boil. You are going to have a ton of hop sludge at the end of this, and will lose quite a bit of wort to that. I had a solid 1.5 gallons of pure hop porridge at the end of my boil.

 

[Roudy]

One more thing. If you're doing 5 gallon batches, definately increase the grain/liquid to end up with at least 6 gallons (preferably 6.5 gallons) at the end of the boil. For me, that meant I needed to start with more than 8 gallons of wort at the beginning of the boil. You are going to have a ton of hop sludge at the end of this, and will lose quite a bit of wort to that. I had a solid 1.5 gallons of pure hop porridge at the end of my boil.

Good advice - my 5 gallon batch yielded at best about 4 gallons which left me wishing for more.

 

[telebrewer]

Pardon me for not knowing but, what are CZT hops? I'm brewing Pliny the Elder next. Thanks.

 

[oldschool]

CTZ is commonly called Columbus or Tomahawk.

Z is zeus I think

 

[masonsjax]

CTZ is commonly called Columbus or Tomahawk.

Z is zeus I think

Correct. They are all 3 just different trade names for the same variety, depending on who grows them.

 

[kgfitz]

benko thanks for the information... if you aim for over 8 gal. at the beginning of the boil do you think that I can cut down the hop porridge with hop bags?? I only have a 8 gal. BK

 

[benko]

Hop bags should help. Just make sure you use a big sack. You don't want a real tight sack, as the hops won't bounce around in there enough. Another thing you can do is go to a 60 minute boil to reduce some wort evaporation. I know that the original recipe has a 90 minute, but with this recipe I don't think its that vital.

 

[kgfitz]

thanks again for the help i am going to do a 60 min boil then i have been wanting to make this for a long time now. i just ordered the hops so it looks like this is going to be my next brew