Tweaks to this GF stout recipe to give it more of a "Guinness" Flavor?

[Sematary]

So this is the recipe I found online:

White Sorghum syrup 3.3 lb (already purchased)
.25 lb Maltodextrin (Want to double for more "mouth feel" - is that enough?)
1 lb Brown rice syrup (Would Molasses be better for this?)
2 lb Belgian Candi Syrup - D-180 (replaced with 2 lb. Amber candy sugar because it was available)
1 lb dark roasted millet malt
2 lb rolled oats (Already purchased)

0.5 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 90 min 19.78
0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 20 min 16.8
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 1 minute 0.4

Actual hops:
CTZ AC 12.1%

Wyeast - 1318 London III (recommended on several sites aside from the one that the recipe called for)

Any thoughts?

 

[Legume]

I would use dark rice malt (instead of the dark millet) and some naked gass hog rice malt to get the stouty flavors/colors you want. Try grinding 6 ounces of the naked gass hog malt to a flour (in a coffee grinder or blender), you will get more color out of it this way.
I would NOT sub molasses for the rice syrup, molasses has a very strong (bad) flavor.

If you mash the rice malt and oats at 180 with 1 TBSP of Termamyl, you will get more flavor, color, and gravity from them. This will also produce lots of non fermentable dextrines and probably eliminate the need for maltodextrine.

Also, Wyeast is not gluten free; but you can culture it away from the media.

 

[Sematary]

So how would this recipe look then?

 

[Sematary]

So, it would look like this?

White Sorghum syrup 3.3 lb (already purchased)
.25 lb Maltodextrin
1 lb Brown rice syrup
2 lb Belgian Candi Syrup - D-180 (replaced with 2 lb. Amber candy sugar because it was available)
1 lb dark rice malt
1 lb naked gass hog rice malt
2 lb rolled oats (Already purchased)

0.5 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 90 min 19.78
0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 20 min 16.8
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 1 minute 0.4

Actual hops:
CTZ AC 12.1%

Wyeast - 1318 London III (recommended on several sites aside from the one that the recipe called for)

Also, would adding quinoa add the head retention (as I saw in another thread) that you would expect from a Guinness and would you do away with the Maltodextrin altogether or leave it as a fermentable that will assist in the production of the beer?
btw - 100% GF is not absolutely necessary. I don't have Celiacs but when I do go to a non gluten diet it does seem to help my allergies and asthma quite a bit.

 

[Legume]

Looks preaty good.
You can cut the boil time to 60 min.
I would cut the naked gass hog to 8oz, and depending on the %AA in your Columbus hops probably reduce the 60 minute addition to .3 or .4 oz.
.5 ounces of 15% AA Coloumbus at 60 minutes in a 1.052 ish wort will give you more biterness than you probably want in this style.

With these changes your OG should be around 1.052 and your IBU should be in the mid 40s.

 

[Sematary]

So, here goes. Any further additions/subtractions/thoughts on this recipe would be much appreciated as GF is difficult but shouldn't be impossible

White Sorghum syrup 3.3 lb (already purchased)
.25 lb Maltodextrin (already purchased)
1 lb Brown rice syrup
2 lb Belgian Candi Syrup - D-180 (replaced with 2 lb. Amber candy sugar because it was available)
1 lb dark rice malt
1/2 lb naked gass hog rice malt (ground to a powder - added during the boil?)
2 lb rolled oats (Already purchased)

0.3 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 60 min
0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 20 min
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 1 minute

Actual hops:
CTZ AC 12.1%

Maybe I can make something that GF drinkers will be happy to drink.
I know I'm looking forward to it even if it is sometime in January before I get to drink it. :-(

 

[Sematary]

One late addition I'm thinking of adding (for head retention) is Quinoa. I saw the thread discussing this but no amounts were given and didn't know if simply steeping (BIAB) at around 170 degrees might not do the same thing without affecting the flavor. I know Quinoa won't add any fermentables but what would it's affect on the flavor be?
Also, to keep it GF, I was actually thinking about using this yeast as it is gluten free and looks like it may add something to the flavor profile.
STRAIN:
3822-PC
BELGIAN DARK ALE

Final recipe?

White Sorghum syrup 3.3 lb (already purchased)
.25 lb Maltodextrin (already purchased)
1 lb Brown rice syrup
2 lb Belgian Candi Syrup - D-180 (replaced with 2 lb. Amber candy sugar because it was available)
1 lb dark rice malt
1/2 lb naked gass hog rice malt (ground to a powder - added during the boil?)
2 lb rolled oats (Already purchased)

0.3 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 60 min
0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 20 min
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 1 minute

Actual hops:
CTZ AC 12.1%

Wyeast Belgian Dark Ale 3822-PC

Just not sure on the Quinoa yet as I'd like some input on if it is worth it or necessary or will add anything to the profile of the beer other than head retention?

 

[Legume]

Looks good.
I dont have much personal experience with quinoa, but 1lb wont hurt. The quinoa head retention thred is intresting, i am going to try it too.


Dont add any grains (dark rice)to the boil.
Grind them, and steep at 175 F with 1 TBSP Termamyl for 1 hour (in a BIAB bag is fine).
Sparge into brewpot then start your boil.

Using a belgian yeast might make a great beer, but it will no longer be an irish stout...the yeast will add a lot of Belgian charicter.

 

[Sematary]

Well, that does leave what was in the original recipe:
Wyeast - 1318 London III
Also a GF yeast.

 

[Sematary]

Any thoughts from anyone else on this recipe (Thanks, Legume, for your input on this)

White Sorghum syrup 3.3 lb (already purchased)
.25 lb Maltodextrin (already purchased)
1 lb Brown rice syrup
2 lb Belgian Candi Syrup - D-180 (replaced with 2 lb. Amber candy sugar because it was available)
1 lb ground dark rice malt
1 lb flaked quinoa
1/2 lb naked gass hog rice malt (ground to a powder - added during the boil?)
2 lb rolled oats (Already purchased)

0.3 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 60 min
0.75 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 20 min
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 1 minute

Actual hops:
CTZ AC 12.1%

Steep (BIAB) ground rice malt, quinoa, naked grass hog rice malt and rolled oats for 60 minutes
Sparge to desired quantity (5 gallons)
Add sorghum syrup. maltodextrin, brown rice syrup and Amber candy sugar and start boil.
Add pellets add specified intervals during the boil.
Add additional water as necessary during the boil to maintain 5 gallons (about 1 gallon for the hour) - or keep heat lower and keep a lid on it to prevent moisture loss during the boil.
Hopefully end up with something approximating a delicious stout.

 

[JMath]

I remember some saying that rice syrup will thin the beer because it ferments completely out. I've noticed this myself and did not use it in my current beer, but I cannot sample for another couple of days to be sure.

It looks like you've got a lot of other things in there so you could probably skip it unless you're worried about OG.

 

[Sematary]

I'm almost there. Ordered some additional ingredients tonight with only some light roasted coffee beans and fat free cocoa powder to go.
I'll probably be brewing that up next weekend (I hope).

 

[Sematary]

I remember some saying that rice syrup will thin the beer because it ferments completely out. I've noticed this myself and did not use it in my current beer, but I cannot sample for another couple of days to be sure.

It looks like you've got a lot of other things in there so you could probably skip it unless you're worried about OG.

Well, a slightly higher AVB wouldn't be a bad thing. lol

 

[Sematary]

I remember some saying that rice syrup will thin the beer because it ferments completely out. I've noticed this myself and did not use it in my current beer, but I cannot sample for another couple of days to be sure.

It looks like you've got a lot of other things in there so you could probably skip it unless you're worried about OG.

So, how did that come out?

 

[Sematary]

I'm brewing this tomorrow. When would be a good time to add the brown rice syrup? Going to add the dme half at the beginning and half at 15 minutes to end of boil. Is at the end (last 15 minutes) good or through the whole boil?

 

[JMath]

Sorry, I just saw this now. I'd say leaving out the rice syrup is a good thing. The body and color were definitely better without it, but not to an extreme amount. But I bet with your quinoa, rice malts, and oats you wouldn't notice it either way.

 

[Sematary]

Sorry, I just saw this now. I'd say leaving out the rice syrup is a good thing. The body and color were definitely better without it, but not to an extreme amount. But I bet with your quinoa, rice malts, and oats you wouldn't notice it either way.

It's been percolating (fermenting) for over a week now. I guess I'll see how it comes out. lol

 

[Sematary]

Bottling update: Well, it's definitely NOT a stout. lol
It came out more like a blond ale (very tasty with a nice finish). Not bitter at all. No notes of coffee or cocoa - despite adding half a pound of each to the steep. I was able to smell the coffee notes but it was very subtle (extremely) ABV is 5.25%.
I'm thinking that next time I make this I need to use dark roast coffee as opposed to light roast and rather than fat free cocoa maybe use a good dark chocolate. Not sure how else I could get that color. Also - not sure how to get the coffee and cocoa notes to come out. Perhaps not add them during the steep but maybe for the last two weeks of the fermentation? Any thoughts on that?

 

[Sematary]

So, I have a "final report" , if you will on this. As I stated, not a stout at all - very much a blond ale. After being bottled for 3 weeks it is quite tasty but absolutely not what I was shooting for. I guess what I learned was how to make a GF blond ale. lol
So, what is it missing? Well, the color for one - it's definitely the color of a blond ale (not as light colored as say a Coors lager - darker, more earthy looking. There is literally no coffee or cocoa notes to the finished product at all despite using half a pound of coffee (light roast - next time I'll use dark roast) and half a pound of baking cocoa. Going to try a dark chocolate in the next batch to see if that helps with the color and the flavor. I'm not disappointed in the final product - as I said, it's delicious, but I am disappointed that it is absolutely not a stout.

 

[ChasidicCalvinist]

Your extract base was solid...except for the candy sugar. 2lbs of the D-180 would have not only changed the color of your beer, but the flavor profile and body are impacted too.

 

[Lefou]

It's going to be very difficult to make a stout without roasted barley and pale or chocolate malts.

 

[JMath]

You don't need barley to make a stout. Roasted rice and roasted buckwheat do a fantastic job.

 

[Lefou]

Oh, wait.
I just realized what forum this really is.