Trying to plan for failure.

[DaveMur]

Hi All,

Brewed my first big beer yesterday, big in the sense that only when checking final gravity I realise my Hydrometer doesn't go over 1.100, wasn't having my best of days, new one on order.

Long story short is the calculator on the app I used seemed to over estimate the required strike water temperature and it looks like the mash sat at about 72-73c for the full 60mins.

My main concern is the yeast giving out and ending up with a severely sweet underatenuated beer. Concerned there may be a lot there that can't be converted. Is there anything I can do to help maximise attenuation? Currently chugging away slowly, should I gradually up the temp while the yeast or active? Add another pack of US-05? Or just ride it out and hope for the best?

Recipe attached if anyone has suggestions, currently fermenting at 20c, single pack of US-05 yeast added so far for the batch. The only difference is the Pils was subbed for Marris Otter.

Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give.

Dave

 

[isomerization]

I would think this type of scenario would be the perfect situation for adding alpha amylase to the fermenter. You could wait to see what happens, but mash temps above 160F are going to severely affect attenuation.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

If you mash was at 73° C (164° F), that is outside the ideal window and near the top end of alpha amylase activity, and pretty much outside the beta amylase activity window, which means a lot of the enzymes are denatured. You may want to think about adding some gluco-amylase to help out (I have personally never used it, so YMMV).

Belle Saison or another diastaticus (STA1+) yeast could do better than S-05, since you probably have a lot of dextrines that did not fully convert at that temperature. I would be curious to what Omega's new Gulo strain would do with it.

Or brett.

I would be tempted to let it ride and see what happens though.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I would pitch the second pack, it can't really hurt at this point. I like to use this simple calculator below, others do too. I would also get another hydrometer

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

 

[isomerization]

I would pitch the second pack, it can't really hurt at this point. I like to use this simple calculator below, others do too. I would also get another hydrometer

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

It’s only a 9L batch, and no amount of US-05 is going to break down those long chain sugars into something fermentable.

FYI OP, if you do pitch a diastaticus yeast (like a saison yeast, do it after the US-05 is finished to try and minimize flavor impact and potential overattenuation. I’d avoid adding glucoamylase, except as a last resort, you will assuredly have a very dry stout on your hands at that point.

 

[bracconiere]

I would think this type of scenario would be the perfect situation for adding alpha amylase to the fermenter. You could wait to see what happens, but mash temps above 160F are going to severely affect attenuation.

not alpha, gluco...many people mistake the two....it's gotta say gluco....

distilling sites seem to be the only place to get it from also...try brewhaus

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

What about the possibility of blending this into other beers?

 

[DaveMur]

Thanks for the info.

@isomerization/bracconiere - I'll start reading in to Glucoamylase. Quick scan and there doesn't seem to be a lot of UK sites selling as Glucoamylase, most just sold as amalyse?

I'll let it ride for now, getting a new Hydrometer tomorrow so I can get my OG reading (sample was kept before pitching), and just see how it finishes I suppose.

@ApolloSimcoe - Blending isn't something I can say I've done but may be worth considering if the batch finishes too high.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

it looks like the mash sat at about 72-73c for the full 60mins.

In the future, I don't see any reason why you couldn't add some cold water to bring the temperature down. I've done it before (with 1-gallon batches) and it doesn't take much. you should be able to compensate with a slightly longer or harder boil, if you there are volume concerns; but in any case, it's better than an entire batch of unfermentable beer.

 

[bracconiere]

Thanks for the info.

@isomerization, most just sold as amalyse?

amylase without the specific gluco in-front is alpha...i found this though

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saccazym...brewers-distillers-cooks-bakers-/182970394799

 

[isomerization]

not alpha, gluco...many people mistake the two....it's gotta say gluco....

distilling sites seem to be the only place to get it from also...try brewhaus

Gotta disagree here. Glucoamylase is very likely to ruin the beer. I recommended alpha amylase as it’s going to keep the beer from drying out (if it works, anecdotal internet evidence seems spotty).

OP, I’d wait until the beer finishes fermenting, taste and then see what you think. Even if you have a FG above 1.040, that isn’t a guaranteed sickly sweet product.

 

[bracconiere]

Gotta disagree here. Glucoamylase is very likely to ruin the beer. I recommended alpha amylase as it’s going to keep the beer from drying out (if it works, anecdotal internet evidence seems spotty).

OP, I’d wait until the beer finishes fermenting, taste and then see what you think. Even if you have a FG above 1.040, that isn’t a guaranteed sickly sweet product.

yes it would dry it out...completely...the OP said in his post 'maximize attenuation', so i just thought i'd throw it out there...don't see what alpha would do in the fermenter at room temp...

 

[isomerization]

yes it would dry it out...completely...the OP said in his post 'maximize attenuation', so i just thought i'd throw it out there...don't see what alpha would do in the fermenter at room temp...

Haha, well he did technically say “maximize”, so you got me there. I’d imagine his intent was to maximize within the normal range.

Enzymes don’t work like on/off switches. Well they kind of do for the off part, if it’s temperature induced denaturation (ie unfolding) leading to loss of activity. Anyways, given enough time (days to weeks), the alpha amylase enzyme should function as needed at fermentation temperatures. Basically, mash temps speed things up, like a lot (maybe as quickly as 15 min). Part of the reason it doesn’t “work” for some people, is that their mash was “fine”, it’s the yeast that quit. At least that’s what I’d guess.

 

[bracconiere]

Haha, well he did technically say “maximize”, so you got me there. I’d imagine his intent was to maximize within the normal range.

Enzymes don’t work like on/off switches. Well they kind of do for the off part, if it’s temperature induced denaturation (ie unfolding) leading to loss of activity. Anyways, given enough time (days to weeks), the alpha amylase enzyme should function as needed at fermentation temperatures. Basically, mash temps speed things up, like a lot (maybe as quickly as 15 min). Part of the reason it doesn’t “work” for some people, is that their mash was “fine”, it’s the yeast that quit. At least that’s what I’d guess.

you are very right about no 'on/off' like coiled up amino acid/amide bonds...like a jig in carpentry..love em'

it's just as far as i know alpha makes mostly the long chain stuff yeast can't use, at any temp.....

 

[isomerization]

you are very right about no 'on/off' like coiled up amino acid/amide bonds...like a jig in carpentry..love em'

it's just as far as i know alpha makes mostly the long chain stuff yeast can't use, at any temp.....

“α-Amylase also only breaks 1-4 glucosidic bonds, but it can attack the starch molecule at any point. This random attack results in a large array of smaller dextrins and a small amount of fermentable sugars.”

https://community.mbaa.com/HigherLo...59d-3e0f-4ee4-ab50-9f3e5525c09f&forceDialog=0

Now I’ve never personally used it in primary, so this is just theoretical from my perspective haha.

 

[DaveMur]

Yea I was like looking more at "for style" with regards to attenuation. I suspect it'll finish higher than the recipe calls for. Perhaps using alpha may be an extreme step if it's going to be that effective.

 

[isomerization]

Yea I was like looking more at "for style" with regards to attenuation. I suspect it'll finish higher than the recipe calls for. Perhaps using alpha may be an extreme step if it's going to be that effective.

I’d think of the two enzymes this way:

Glucoamylase = extreme
Alpha amylase = subtle

Sounds like you’re on the right path of wait and see, good luck!