Trying Sours...Recommendations?

[Zimm9]

I've gotten curious after reading some threads about sours. Any recommendations to see if this is a type of beer I'd like? I stopped by the closest thing we have to an LHBS this evening and asked them. Ended up with Bell's Larry's Latest Sour, I think it's called. I plan to crack one open tomorrow since it wasn't chilled when I bought it. Is that a good "introductory" beer to get a feel for whether or not I'd want to attempt making a sour?

 

[deadwolfbones]

I think the best thing to do would be to try the classic Belgians, eg. Gueuze Tilquin, Lindemans Framboise, Rodenbach Grand Cru, etc. Maybe also a commercial gose like Anderson Valley Blood Orange Gose.

 

[Br3w4u]

Destihl makes some really good sours and they won’t break the bank. They come in cans. I love duchess de Bourgogne but it might not be for everyone. If you like cherries the cherry barbe is great also. Jolly pumpkin makes great sours if you can find them.

 

[Zimm9]

Thanks for the suggestions! I appreciate the list of some specifics to look for. I did a search on the store's website and was able to find everything but Gueuze Tilquin. They have several from Jolly Pumpkin but I can't tell if any are sours. I'm certain I've tried a Lindemans before and really liked it but it's been a long time. All that sampling will be tough but I'll manage somehow.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Almost all Jolly Pumpkin beers are at least tart and some are very sour. If you can't find Tilquin, try Hanssens, Boon, or Mort Subite (if you can find 'em). Gueuze is probably the sourest style you're likely to find.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I've had a lot of commercial sours...

The sourness level varies but is usually pretty mild for my taste.
Most have fruit but some don't.
Very few are heavily hopped.
The more traditional mixed fermentations product a more complex flavor profile rather than just a clean sourness produced from a faster "kettle sour" method. The fast sour method seems to be way more common unfortunately.
Some of the traditional sours have acetic notes (vinegar).
Some are dry, most are sweet, and too many are overly sweet imo.
Goses have salt. Coriander is common in this style. Other spices are generally pretty rare.

Just reading some comments it sounds like Bell's Larry's Latest Sour is heavily hopped, sweet, and mildly sour without any complexity. Keep an open mind if you don't like that one

Sours are rare so I usually just get whatever I can whenever I can.
Dogfish Head has a SeaQuench ale that's widely distributed, it's a pretty mild generic fast-sour gose with lime.
Lindeman's Kriek (cherry lambic) is widely available -- it's very sweet and very fruity but delicious imo if you don't mind that.
+1 for any Jolly Pumpkin or Duchesse de Bourgogne if you can find them.

 

[TwistedGray]

You should look into the FotD threads if you're into trading. You can usually find some sours in trades there as well.

 

[LLBeanJ]

New Belgium's La Folie and Le Terroir are both nice intros to the style.

 

[RPh_Guy]

New Belgium's La Folie and Le Terroir are both nice intros to the style.

I was very surprised to learn New Belgium is the largest sour beer producer in the States. I live in Ohio and travel a little.. I've only ever been come across two of their sours, neither of the ones you mentioned.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I was very surprised to learn New Belgium is the largest sour beer producer in the States. I live in Ohio and travel a little.. I've only ever been come across two of their sours, neither of the ones you mentioned.

Interesting. I know they produce a lot of sours, but also had no idea they were the largest in the States, though if you've ever been into their sour aging area (aka the Foeder Forest), you could certainly believe it. I'm really surprised you haven't seen La Folie in your travels, as it's pretty much their flagship sour.

 

[Zimm9]

I was surprised to see so many New Belgium show up when I did a search for "sour" at the store here. I wish it was so easy to find them once I'm IN the store.

This is all really good feedback, thanks!

@RPh_Guy appreciate the research into Larry's. I haven't had a chance to do anything more than put it in the fridge yet. I shouldn't be surprised... The store I went to has a great selection but the employees probably lean toward the IPA crowd. The 3rd employee I asked at least knew what a sour was so he helped me.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Duchesse is a good one, and readily available, but it's also pretty sweet for a sour.

Another common one is Petrus (Oud Bruin, Aged Red, whatever).

 

[Zimm9]

Thought I would provide feedback on the Bell's Larry's for anyone interested. Bear in mind my palate is not that refined...but I kind of dig this one. It's very citrusy with a puckering tang. A lot of grapefruit flavors to me with that kind of bitterness in the aftertaste. Without anything to compare it to, I don't know whether or not it is really a good representation of a sour. However, I'm happy that it won't be unpleasant to finish the 6-pack.

Petrus is another that I've seen in the list at my local place. I really am impressed with their inventory! I only wish they carried more homebrew stuff and had some employees interested in brewing.

 

[ESBrewer]

Boon Oude Geuze would be nice.

 

[BrewInspector]

Pay attention to the souring agent / method on the bottles you try. You may find yourself drawn to particular types or styles while disliking others.

 

[CoreyD]

Aunt Sally from Lagunitus is a good kettle sour example. Very tart, with ipa like hoppiness. Gose's are a good starting point for sour virgins. Most are lightly tart, with a little salty, citrus flavor. I'm a sour patch kid nut, so finding the sour flavor I expected was not easy. Aunt Sally was right in my wheel house. Beliner Weisse is another realy tart style.

 

[Br3w4u]

Evil twin nomader weisse is a great beer!

 

[Zimm9]

I need to add a beer tasting journal along with my brew day journal. That's a really good idea @BrewInspector to keep notes of that stuff. It's probably something I should be doing overall and not just with the sours, to improve my brewing.

I saw some Lagunitas sours at my store - glad to get some input on those, @CoreyD . My coworkers gave me grossed out looks/noises when I mentioned sour beer. I've been describing it as sour candy, like sour gummies, which I really like.

I wasn't able to find Evil Twin in the store search, but looked them up online. They're brewing with rhubarb! I'm intrigued. I'll have to keep an eye out for their beers elsewhere.

Looks like they have the Boon Black Label Geuze at my store, @ESBrewer so I'll be able to try out that one. I see a spreadsheet in my future just to keep track of all the ones I need to sample.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I need to add a beer tasting journal along with my brew day journal.

If you have a smart phone I suggest using the Untappd app
I find it invaluable keeping record of what I've had, how much I liked it, and tasting notes.
If you want to friend me send me a PM.

My coworkers gave me grossed out looks/noises when I mentioned sour beer.

More for us!

 

[BrewInspector]

If you like the sour candies then you will enjoy the kettle sour style. The lacto flavor is the same. I generally like those myself.

When I see "farmhouse" or the like I'm heading in the other direction. While many call it more complex and interesting I find them stomach turning.

 

[nas81]

If you like the sour candies then you will enjoy the kettle sour style. The lacto flavor is the same. I generally like those myself.

When I see "farmhouse" or the like I'm heading in the other direction. While many call it more complex and interesting I find them stomach turning.

This. I got hooked on sours after having the EPIC brewing Tart'n'Juicy IPA. Destihl makes quite a few sours, the syncopathic sour is my favorite but it is much tarter than the others - more like those sour warheads versus sour patch kids for some others. If you can find it the Westbrook Key Lime Gose is amazing. I had one taste of a farmhouse sour and poured the rest out. I'm fortunate that a bottle shop just opened up close to me and the guy who runs it basically just stocks sours and goses so I hope he stays open. Also, I would be aware of a black gose (different type of salt is used), they are not sour or tart at all and really did not have appealing flavor to me.

ETA: Brooklyn Brew Shop actually sells one gallon kits for a Stillwater Gose clone and a sour sessions. I made both and actually found a true Stillwater Gose and my wife said they were very similar (I let her have them all so never compared myself). I also brewed the sour but it really didn't come out very tart. They are both made by kettle souring with a lacto probiotic pill and I even upped the dosage on the second batch. I have purchased a different lacto probiotic so plan to try that in the future.

 

[Kent88]

I thought I'd piggyback on the thread. I just grabbed a bottle of Gueuze Girardin 1882 that I'm planning to open sometime in the next week or so. Is this considered a good example of a gueuze?

 

[Zimm9]

I'm enjoying the discussion on this. Thanks, guys.

@RPh_Guy thanks for mentioning Untappd. I've seen references to it and haven't gotten around to finding out what it actually is/does. Sounds like a good time to jump into using it since I'm just starting out journaling my beer tasting adventure.

@nas81 Just did another search and my store has quite a few of Epic's beers. I'll add them to my list! Didn't find Westbrook, though. Tart is probably a better way to describe it, or at least it might not be as off-putting to explain it to others that way instead of saying sour.

@BrewInspector I'll have to find a farmhouse style to try...but proceed with caution. I do like sour flavors like pickles/vinegar, too. What kind of sourness is in the farmhouse beers?

 

[TwistedGray]

What kind of sourness is in the farmhouse beers?

While I've been known to be wrong from time to time, I believe this references traditional souring versus kettle souring. The process is very different albeit uses the same ingredients (more-or-less).

 

[deadwolfbones]

The typical descriptors for farmhouse beers come from the Brett yeast, not the lactic acid of typical sours (which come from bacteria). Some beers combine both.

Farmhouse beers with Brett tend to have a leathery, hay-like scent and flavor (often simplified to "barnyard funk"). I get a bit of mothball from them, too. It's definitely an acquired taste (like the peat in scotch, for instance), but once you've acquired it, there's no replacement.

 

[BrewInspector]

Barnyard funk works for me as a descriptor.

If you like the aroma found on the floor of a well used horse or cattle barn and can imagine what that might taste like you are on the right track. Funky musty hay and poop. mmmmmm delicious to some and something to run from for others.

 

[Zimm9]

Wow, not the kind of sour flavor I was expecting! I'm not scared to try it at least once, though. I'll drink it outside where I can smell horse manure. That'd be like pairing the beer, right?

 

[CrimsonYeti]

I didn't see them mentioned here but Crooked Stave has some good sours too. Blueberry Petite is awesome. Im in Ohio also and see lots of sours from locals.

 

[deadwolfbones]

Personally, I don't get poop.

The Brett flavor/aroma can be anywhere from very mild to very intense, as well, and can vary based on the serving temp of the beer. I have a rye saison I dosed with Brett at bottling, and after 10 months the Brett character is strong on the nose and moderate on the tongue. I love it, but for some it would be way too much.

Some people/breweries use Brett with much less aging and it produces a much less intense impact.

 

[bleme]

Wow, not the kind of sour flavor I was expecting! I'm not scared to try it at least once, though. I'll drink it outside where I can smell horse manure. That'd be like pairing the beer, right?

I've only had a few farmhouse beers but never got 'manure'. Usually it is mostly an aroma of a sweaty horse blanket. Since I grew up with horses, it's a nostalgic smell, but not enough for me to pay the outrageous price most breweries charge.

 

[couchsending]

It’s shocking how much odd info there is in this thread.

I would say the New Belgium “sour” beers are the most readily available,
best US produced, examples of this “style”. They are incredibly well executed beers. I can’t stand NB clean beers personally but their “Sour” beers are really quite good. These beers are made in the traditional extended aging method using a mixed culture consisting of Brett and various bacteria. Interesting enough they actually primary ferment with lager yeast but fermented warm. This style could just as easily be considered “farmhouse”. It’s all marketing. Their production method for these beers is very similar to Rodenbach.

Kettle Sours are maybe what got me into the style and I’ve made two but never again. The sourness is so one dimensional.

Not all Brett produces “farmhouse” characteristics. It depends on the strain, how it’s used, and how long it has aged. There are plenty of awesome “farmhouse” styles that don’t have much barnyard. There are plenty of Brett strains that will produce some of the most amazing aromatic compounds you’ve ever smelt in a beer without any “horse blanket” or “farmhouse” qualities. Pineapple, lemon, strawberry, you name it Brett can make it. It can also turn odd or off flavors into amazing ones.

I would suggest if you want to explore this style do some research on the BA. There are tons of kettle sours out there but honestly they don’t do the “Sour” beer style justice.

If you’re in Illinois I would suggest looking for some Jolly Pumpkin, you should be able to find it. They have a Sour scale on their bottles which could be helpful. And if you wanted to make a “sour” beer their dregs are some of the best to use. Not sure if you can find Jackie Os in your area, but they’re another awesome Midwest brewery producing some awesome mixed fermentation beers. Not sure if Upland is available near you or not. Never had their beer but heard good things about their oak aged sour beers.

For someone just getting into sour beers I wouldn’t necessarily recommend traditional Belgian Geuze. It could be a bit of a shock. Personally I find the backsweetened sweet “sour” beers disgusting and somewhat of a disgrace to the style.

 

[radwizard]

Yeah, Brett often gets a one word description for some odd reason. I don't really get that. Can you accurately describe Saccharomyces flavors in a few words? I'm not sure why Brettanomyces would be different...

I agree with the above. Based on your location, Jolly Pumpkin would be an excellent choice. Bam Biere is supper tasty, and using JP dregs is a good idea for a new sour brewer.

Reading American Sours got me really interested in trying different sour beers produced by brewers featured in the book. It is interesting to taste the beers after you understand the brewers methods a bit.

 

[ESBrewer]

Looks like they have the Boon Black Label Geuze at my store, @ESBrewer so I'll be able to try out that one. I see a spreadsheet in my future just to keep track of all the ones I need to sample.

Black label is highly rated and was decent when I once tried it. You should try that as well. But I prefer their standard Oude Geuze over Black label. These beers are traditional, dry and sour, not back sweetened or anything like that (yes, some bad examples of sour beers could be). These are mixtures of lambics of different ages and the residual sugar in younger beer promotes secondary fermentation. These beers tend to mature in the bottle and the taste may evolve so it depends when you drink it. If I remember correctly, I liked Timmermans version as well, but I didn't like Oud Beersel that much. But it could be about the right timing as I mentioned. Right now I'm drinking Oud Beersel Bersalis, which IS a mixture of a blonde ale and a lambic. Decent but nothing too exceptional. I prefer the high quality lambics.

 

[mj1angier]

If ya'll ever get down/ up to N.C., give Barrel Culture a try. https://www.facebook.com/BarrelCulture/

It is not your granddaddies sours!!

 

[Morrey]

While a Brett barrel aged sour from Crooked Stave or Wicked Weed may take many months, a nice Gose is wonderful and can be ready in just a few weeks. Kettle souring is really neat...you may be surprised how fun this is to brew. Anderson Valley and Westbrook are good examples of Gose style to attempt cloning.