MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
how can i make one to filter hop debris, hot and cold break, proteins etc from the boil kettle
trub filter
- Thread starter MSK_Chess
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I think whirlpool then careful draining would work better than filtering.
If you were to filter might need to have a two stage type filter. One to stop the hops and a finer one to stop the break. Break is so fine that the filter would probably get clogged in no time.
In the past I have used a cone type reusable coffee filter to filter the trub to get wort for starters. If the trub was mostly break it would clog almost instantly but if there was a good amount of hops mixed in that would drain better. First little bit to get through was cloudy but then would drain clear, took a while to filter.
If you were to filter might need to have a two stage type filter. One to stop the hops and a finer one to stop the break. Break is so fine that the filter would probably get clogged in no time.
In the past I have used a cone type reusable coffee filter to filter the trub to get wort for starters. If the trub was mostly break it would clog almost instantly but if there was a good amount of hops mixed in that would drain better. First little bit to get through was cloudy but then would drain clear, took a while to filter.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
I use a hop spider so hops are not really a concern, just when i use pellets i get some little debris. I need a break filter. I have in the past used a ten micron wound filter cartridge and pushed it through with Co2 but it gets clogged really easily, I thought of a fine stainless steel mesh, maybe 40 micron would do it, i dunno, but i need to find a solution.
I just bag my hops, then when I drain the kettle I pour it all in but about 4 ounces of the thickest. I then allow the beer long enough in primary to clear up, at least some.
I tried a strainer on the first 2 batches. What a pain, had to start, stop, dump the debris, try again about 10 times and a half hour trying to get the wort into the fermenter.
I have a feeling my water where I am now is not as good as where I used to live. I used to get quite clear beer without much trouble. Since moving my beers have been cloudy, but very tasty.
I tried a strainer on the first 2 batches. What a pain, had to start, stop, dump the debris, try again about 10 times and a half hour trying to get the wort into the fermenter.
I have a feeling my water where I am now is not as good as where I used to live. I used to get quite clear beer without much trouble. Since moving my beers have been cloudy, but very tasty.
If you use a hop spider, the majority of the trub should remain in the kettle with whirlfloc and a 10 minute rest before draining. The rest is insignificant trub. The trub in my fermenter at the end of fermentation is 85% yeast.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
hop sack and then suck up every oz of beer from the BK. Hotbreak makes no difference in the final product. Otherwise your just wasting beer
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
I have found this not to be the case, infact i refrigerated my kettle over night and although the break had dropped it was still being picked up when i transfered to fermenter. I'd like to know how you measured the 85% and why your trub drops faster in ten minutes than mines did in 24 hours at 6C
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Actually i think it does make a difference for numerous reasons but i don't want to go into it here. All i want is a DIY trub filter for trub free fermentation. Preferably stainless steel.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
That's fine. After you get your answer and the thread runs its course I'd be curious to hear why. I said what I said because I've chilled fast and racked off the hotbreak and then stopped and didn't notice any difference. Nothing scientific
Your making friends fast around here...keep up the good work
Priceless.
I have always used trub free wort for my beers, I like it because I reuse my yeast and it is very clean that way.
I chill my wort, allow to settle then siphon off the clear stuff. Normally it is compacted within 30min to an hour. I used to chill my lagers down to pitching temp but that would slow the settling process at times(chill haze maybe?). Clearer wort into the boil kettle and less whirfloc(.75gm/5gal) works for me to reduce the trub and speed up the settling process.
I think a thing like the blichman hop blocker might work if you allow the trub to settle before draining. Or maybe something that works like a clear draft to drain from the top and not the bottom.
There are small canister filters with stainless screens that are 40 mesh, which is like 80 micron i think. Itll keep out the trub, but not sure about clogging up as depends on your batch size. Theyre not too big. Can of coke size. And you’d likely need to pump, not sure gravity would be enough.
I would incorporate a grant
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
yes kind of, it looks almost like a dishwasher filter, interesting.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
yes i think we would need a large surface area. a 10" stainless cannister filter would be good.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Please forgive my ignorance but whats a grant?
FunkedOut
FunkedOver
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I have not filtered the break from kettle to FV, so I can’t help there.
I use a 400 micron sock for hop pellets.
The way I deal with the break is to chill to 5-10*F below pitching temp, whirlpool for 5 min, then let settle for 30 min. My kettle drain valve is on a TC port and has a racking arm that I can rotate. It leaves anywhere from 24oz to a gallon of wort behind in the domed kettle bottom. 0.75 gallons left behind is usually enough to transfer only clear wort.
I use a 400 micron sock for hop pellets.
The way I deal with the break is to chill to 5-10*F below pitching temp, whirlpool for 5 min, then let settle for 30 min. My kettle drain valve is on a TC port and has a racking arm that I can rotate. It leaves anywhere from 24oz to a gallon of wort behind in the domed kettle bottom. 0.75 gallons left behind is usually enough to transfer only clear wort.
flars
Well-Known Member
I pour from the boil kettle into a bucket holding a fine mesh bag. Tubing from the buckets spigot into the carboy. At the end of the pour lift the bag, like in BIAB brewing, to drain the last of the wort from the hop debris and break material. No squeezing the bag though.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
maybe one of these filled with perlite? 50cm (20") stainless filter column.
https://tinyurl.com/ya333rx9
https://tinyurl.com/ya333rx9
I wouldn't expect that to work very well. The exposed surface area is constricted. Normally filters are very thin, with a very large surface area. This seems to be the opposite to me.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
surely if we fill it with perlite we shall have a rather large surface area? it has a diameter of 4.5cm and a height of 50 cm making a cubit capacity of 795 cubic centimetres if my maths is correct
If you were using this to filter water using activated charcoal, I'd agree, large surface area. But if you're trying to mechanically impede trub from flowing through, it seems to have little more than the diameter of the tube with which to do it. Once clogged near the input opening, it doesn't matter how much more you have packed into the tube below it--the clogging at the top will prevent any further filtering, and then you'd have to clear the tube, and do again.
At least, that's how it appears to me. I've been following this because I suspect we both have the same interest in doing something like this. I've been approaching it from a whirlpooling point of view, but I'm always interested in new and/or better ways.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
I may be inclined to agree although filled with 795 cubic centimetres of Perlite of between 0 and 6mm will create a large surface area. The problem of clogging can be addressed by putting larger elements near the inlet port, maybe ceramic balls or something. Will it be enough to filter a 23L (five gallon ) batch, I dunno, I have my reservations like you. There are alternatives though. You can get a pretty cheap refillable filter designed for use with either DI resin or active carbon for a mere 7 pounds Sterling, maybe 10 bucks US dollah! oh yes, its true! Perlite is pretty cheap, pH neutral, sterile and environmentally friendly! I think there is no other way except mechanical filtration Mongoose me ol son!
https://tinyurl.com/ycmn9f9t
or even somehting like this
https://tinyurl.com/y9wkjawt
yes we are one, we need to find a viable and practical solution to the problem of break trub!
I've got to run do some things, but IMO the key issue here is not surface area--it's cross-sectional area. It's not like activated charcoal which will absorb, and where more surface area matters, it's about the cross-sectional area presenting itself to the liquid to be filtered.
I have had some success looping the outlet hose from my chiller back into the kettle through a 6" x 14", 400 micron hop filter. I start that after dumping the spent hops out when the temp gets down to ~150f and let the pump keep recirculating it that way till it reaches ~65f, then drain the kettle into the fermenter and pitch.
A lot of break material precipitates out of the wort as it passes through the chiller, this is the best chance to catch it before it mixes back into the kettle.
As the screen starts to get blocked the level rises so I flip the hose into the kettle and let the level in the basket drain back down, directing the wort stream at the outside of the filter to blast away some of the trub that blocks the holes, then put it back in the basket to continue filtering. I still get trub in the fermenter but it's less than before, plus it's kinda fun.
A lot of break material precipitates out of the wort as it passes through the chiller, this is the best chance to catch it before it mixes back into the kettle.
As the screen starts to get blocked the level rises so I flip the hose into the kettle and let the level in the basket drain back down, directing the wort stream at the outside of the filter to blast away some of the trub that blocks the holes, then put it back in the basket to continue filtering. I still get trub in the fermenter but it's less than before, plus it's kinda fun.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
I am not quite sure I understand what you mean? Are you referring to the gauge of the filter medium? Is this cross sectional area? I can tell from experience that a 10 micron filter is too narrow, it filters excellently but is easily blocked by protein and break. some are suggesting as high as 300/400 mircon which I would think lets through a fair amount of trub. I probably would like to go anything high than 50-60 micron. a compromise of sort must be reached though. I have orderd some stainless mesh for experimental purposes, 400 mesh which is 37 microns and 300 mesh which is like 50 microns, lets see how they work out, they might be too fine, i dunno.
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MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
ok I was hoping to aviod this, but its the second time its been asked.
Cloudy wort can contain anywhere from 5 to 40 times the unsaturated fatty-acid content of clear wort, an important fact because unsaturated fatty acids can have a significant negative effect even at low concentrations. what effect?
1. they work against beer foam stability
2. they play an important role in beer staling
I want clear wort as well, and that's why I love my HERMS. My wort is crystal clear.
Not only for the reasons listed above, but also if I have a haze in the final beer, I know it's not a starch haze or other mash/boil related reasons. Call me shallow, but I love a commercial quality crystal clear beer in my glass. Some of my IPAs may have a tiny hops haze, but overall they are clear and I want to maximize the colloidal stability of the finished beer.
