Troubleshooting help

[tunaboatbeer]

When I touch the multi meter to each individually at the terminal strip they each read 122v

 

[lschiavo]

Try measuring across them. If they are the same leg, you will see 120 to ground on each and 0 between L1 and L2.

 

[tunaboatbeer]

Gotcha, when I put 1 probe on white and 1 on black it reads zero

 

[lschiavo]

We just found your problem. Thank god. Now you have to trace your cord back to the source and get it connected to two opposite legs. Are you using a receptacle or coming direct out of a breaker panel?

 

[tunaboatbeer]

I'm using a 3 prong receptacle on the wall

 

[lschiavo]

Measure voltage at the receptacle to see if you get 240 across the hots. If not, that receptacle is wired wrong then. It is probably connected to two single pole breakers on the same leg. You would need to get a two pole breaker and replace the two single poles with that. It is possible that there is only 120v at the receptacle and someone just jumped it out to both legs...take the cover off and verify a 3 wire feed to the receptacle. I hope you are planning to get some gfci protection in here somehow too.

 

[BrotherGrim]

Wait.... A three prong wall socket? Is this a 3 prong 240V AC dryer socket, or a standard 115V wall socket? 240V is two 115 (110, 120, what ever) that are from opposite legs in the distribution panel. I never checked the phasing of household wiring with the O-Scope so I don't know if they are 180 deg or 120 deg out of phase, but that is not really required information. What is required is a picture of the socket you are feeding from, and if you installed it, how is it wired up?

 

[tunaboatbeer]

It is connected to a 2 pole 30 amp breaker. Black wire connected to one pole and white to the other.

 

[lschiavo]

Check for 240v at the breaker and the receptacle. Your problem is somewhere in between those. Try firmly resetting the breaker as well. Sometimes a pole wont make a connection if not snapped to the "on" position firmly. You may just need to replace the breaker.

 

[BrotherGrim]

I think the problem is going to be more difficult to fix. If you are reading 115V on each leg to ground, but 0V line to line, then whatever is feeding these lines is on the same phase. Is your distribution panel single phase? I have one of those in my house, why they chose to do this I do not know, but a single hot wire is fed in and jumped to the other phase. This box in my house is full, and runs only receptacles so it doesn't impact me, but if I were to try to do what you have, I would have the same results.

 

[lschiavo]

I think the problem is going to be more difficult to fix. If you are reading 115V on each leg to ground, but 0V line to line, then whatever is feeding these lines is on the same phase. Is your distribution panel single phase? I have one of those in my house, why they chose to do this I do not know, but a single hot wire is fed in and jumped to the other phase. This box in my house is full, and runs only receptacles so it doesn't impact me, but if I were to try to do what you have, I would have the same results.

This is a very good point. I hadn't thought of that scenario.

 

[BrotherGrim]

Yeah, it kind of sucked. I am in the early stages of putting together an e-brewery, so I had to install a new panel to distribute 220 into my garage. I had two panels, one 220V outside which feeds stove, dryer, ac, etc. and the 110V panel which feeds receptacles, including all the garage receptacles. Fortunately, I have the tools and skills to install a new panel to feed my new 220V needs.

 

[tunaboatbeer]

When I measure across the hots at the breaker i get zero. My breaker box has 3 other 2 pole breakers, a 30 amp, a 40 amp, and a 60 amp. I measured across each one of them and it read 1.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

1 Volt? Across both hots should read 220-240v, not 1. Is your mulit-meter on the right setting or fried? 0 makes sense from what the others have said - there's no voltage across the same phase, but 1 makes no sense to me.

 

[tunaboatbeer]

I didn't change the setting between measuring 0 on the brewery breaker to measuring 1 on the other 2 pole breakers. What setting should it be on?

 

[BrotherGrim]

The 1V measurement is going to be normal if you have a load on one of those circuits. The load will pull down the voltage making a very small potential between the two different circuits. Sounds like you have a single phase distribution panel. Either you need to figure out how to split the one you have, install a new panel, or convert your system to a 110V system.

 

[tunaboatbeer]

well crap. Installing a new panel and going to 110v are not good options. Guess I need to figure out how to split it.

 

[P-J]

Can you post a picture of the panel with the breaker wiring exposed?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

If he had a single phase panel he would have gotten 0 across all of the 2-pole breakers. He's getting 0 at the new (brewery) breaker and 1 at the others. I would imagine if you measure across the two feed lines to the breaker at the main trunk line, you should get 220-240. If you get 0, it's a single phase panel.

 

[DustBow]

Wow, sorry man, this has really spiraled out of control from a simple "what did I wire wrong in my brew box" question.....

Good luck, you definitely have some knowledgable people here to help

(nothing can ever be easy can it? )

 

[stlbeer]

At least you know what the issue is and have an idea of what it might take to resolve it.

That in itself is a major hurdle.

 

[thargrav]

On wiring:

If the wiring from the control to the element is a three wire power cord, the colors will be black, white & green. Black is one hot leg, white is the other hot leg and green is the safety ground that is attached to the outside of the pot. There is no neutral connection on the 240V heating element.

If the wiring from the wall outlet to the control box is three wires the wires are still black, white & green. Black is one hot leg, white is the other hot leg and green is both the safety ground and neutral. This is way older stove & dryer outlets are wired.

If the wiring from the wall outlet to the control box is four wires the wires are black, red, white & green (or bare). Black is one hot leg, red is the other hot leg, white is neutral and green is the safety ground. This is way newer stove & dryer & GFI outlets are wired.

 

[tunaboatbeer]

mine is all 3 wire. All the way to the breaker. How is it that I'm getting 240v to the other outlets (like the dryer) on a similar 2 pole breaker? Could it be the breaker is different?

 

[BrotherGrim]

mine is all 3 wire. All the way to the breaker. How is it that I'm getting 240v to the other outlets (like the dryer) on a similar 2 pole breaker? Could it be the breaker is different?

You may be lucky here. Might be a bad breaker. Try reading two different breakers that are set side by side and see what your voltage is. The dryer is fed out of this same panel correct?

 

[tunaboatbeer]

correct, there are 3 other large 2 pole breakers in the same box as the brewery breaker. Are there different types of 2 pole breakers (single phase and multiple phase)?

The appliances in the kitchen are all new, but the dryer is still old and could possibly be the same 3 wire plug. I'll try unplugging the dryer tonight and checking the voltage across the 2 hot wires on it.

 

[lschiavo]

A picture of your breaker panel would be quite helpful. Make sure the main feed wires are visible too.

 

[tunaboatbeer]

can do. I'll take a pic tonight

 

[RDWHAHB]

Did you use a tandem breaker that splits it into 2 branches, but both on the same phase? You need double pole breaker that hooks onto both phases and takes up 2 spots.

 

[RDWHAHB]

Wait.... A three prong wall socket? Is this a 3 prong 240V AC dryer socket, or a standard 115V wall socket? 240V is two 115 (110, 120, what ever) that are from opposite legs in the distribution panel. I never checked the phasing of household wiring with the O-Scope so I don't know if they are 180 deg or 120 deg out of phase, but that is not really required information. What is required is a picture of the socket you are feeding from, and if you installed it, how is it wired up?

No scope is required. The fact that it is 120/240v means it is 180 out of phase. 120/208v would be 120 out. US household is center tapped on a single phase transformer for "split phase".

 

[tunaboatbeer]

here is the panel. Sorry it's a little blurry. The brewery breaker is the bottom left. It is a true 2 pole, not a tandem. It's "double wide" like the other large breakers