Tropic Haze DNEIPA - Secondary needed? Tons of hops residue, how to remove?

[lorne17]

Hello there,

I brewed this recipe on new years day : https://www.homebrewsupply.com/media/pdf/Extract_PDFs/EX_INS_TropicHazeNEDIPA.pdf

It's now time to add the first round of dry hops. Only problem is i have a ton of hops on the bottom of my fermenter because my filter didn't work great after boil.

The recipe doesn't call for a secondary, however i have the fastferment so it's easy to go to secondary and even tertiary. Should i do this and get to secondary? Or just leave it? If so, when should i remove the bulb of trub and start secondary?

Thanks,
Lorne

 

[triethylborane]

Do you cold crash before bottling/kegging?

I would just leave it in primary, cold crash, dump trub while cold crashing, dump trub again (if applicable) during cold crash, and then package.

 

[lorne17]

Do you cold crash before bottling/kegging?

I would just leave it in primary, cold crash, dump trub while cold crashing, dump trub again (if applicable) during cold crash, and then package.

I don't cold crash. My FastFerment is in a box with insulation (see my plans here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/son-of-a-fastferment-chamber.575923/). I don't have a refrigerant connected or anything. I guess i could throw a bunch of buckets of ice in? Would that make it cold enough you think?

Thanks,
Lorne

 

[triethylborane]

Are you in a location with colder climate due to winter? You could cover it and put it out in your garage. Ive had temps in the teens the last few nights and mid 50s during the day, and the beer Im cold crashing in my garage sticks to about 38-42f. Good enough for me.

Some people dont cold crash NEIPAs, so if its a hassle then dont worry about it. If no cold crash, then I still would wait until the day before packaging to dump trub if you are concerned about getting hop pellet particles out. Then the day of packaging you could dump again.

 

[lorne17]

Are you in a location with colder climate due to winter? You could cover it and put it out in your garage. Ive had temps in the teens the last few nights and mid 50s during the day, and the beer Im cold crashing in my garage sticks to about 38-42f. Good enough for me.

Some people dont cold crash NEIPAs, so if its a hassle then dont worry about it. If no cold crash, then I still would wait until the day before packaging to dump trub if you are concerned about getting hop pellet particles out. Then the day of packaging you could dump again.

I live in Denver. So it's cold at night. But it's currently in my basement.

So if I dump trub you recommend i do it right before kegging? It's super easy to do anytime and as many timesDas i need to with my FastFerment. My dry hops are in a dry hopper so we are good there.

Thanks,
Lorne

 

[triethylborane]

I live in Denver. So it's cold at night. But it's currently in my basement.

So if I dump trub you recommend i do it right before kegging? It's super easy to do anytime and as many timesDas i need to with my FastFerment. My dry hops are in a dry hopper so we are good there.

Thanks,
Lorne

Im in Denver Met as well, so our temps are similar. I move my fermenters to my garage to cold crash for a couple of days. If your hops are in a tube then not a lot of hop debris, but the cold crash does drop a lot of trub out of suspension. Might be beneficial to you, your call though. The cold crash also seems to compacts things down so less yeast/trub/hops/etc pass into the bottles/kegs. If its easy, no reason not to dump trub now and then again right before packaging.

 

[lorne17]

Glad to see a fellow Denver homebrewer!

If I cold crash will it take the Haze out of my “hazy” ipa?

 

[triethylborane]

Glad to see a fellow Denver homebrewer!

If I cold crash will it take the Haze out of my “hazy” ipa?

Nope. Haze remains when I cold crash NEIPAs.

 

[day_trippr]

Same here. I'm nursing the last of a Julius clone I brewed the first week of September and it's still plenty hazy with a ton of up-front hoppiness.
I cold-crash everything but my stouts...

Cheers!

 

[lorne17]

Copy that. I guess I’ll cold crash then!

One last question. Based on the recipe how long should I ferment? It doesn’t tell me. It only says dry hops three days in and dry hop four days remaining. How much time in between?!

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I add the first dry hops two days from pitching, let that simmer for four days, add the second round of hops, let it run another four days, cold crash for two days then keg...

Cheers!

 

[triethylborane]

fwiw, I add the first dry hops two days from pitching, let that simmer for four days, add the second round of hops, let it run another four days, cold crash for two days then keg...

Cheers!

I basically follow the same schedule. I also start ferm at 64f and hold it there until the 2nd dry hop, where I then ramp it up to 68-70f for the final four days. Then cold crash.

 

[lorne17]

Thanks guys,

I will follow these guide lines. I typically am in my fermenter for 3-4 weeks in primary. I guess NEIPA is a bit different! I put my dry hops in on Thursday. So looks like I need to dry hop my second batch tonight! Then I will put in garage for cold crash for 2 days.

Ok I lied, one last question: my first round of dry hops are in my hopper. I plan to fish that out of there with sanitized tongs and my big spoon. Should I take those hops out and put my second round of dry hops in a clean fresh hopper? That way the first round of hops are gone and no longer in there? Or should I just add the next 3 oz of hops to the hopper?

Thanks for all the help!
Lorne

 

[day_trippr]

I never remove any dry hops from a fermentor before simply cold-crashing them to the bottom.
If I do one, two or even three rounds, they're all still there at the end.
fwiw, I only use "free swimming" pellets for dry hopping in the fermentor, and only whole cones in muslin bags for keg-hopping...

Cheers!

 

[lorne17]

Thanks for the reply. So should I just leave my hopper that’s already in there and then throw the other pellets straight into fermenter?

Also, What does “fwiw“ mean?

 

[day_trippr]

"for what it's worth"
If you can cold-crash, then yes, just dump them in.
They'll all hit the bottom hard once you crash the fermentor and you can rack off above them...

Cheers!

 

[lorne17]

"for what it's worth"
If you can cold-crash, then yes, just dump them in.
They'll all hit the bottom hard once you crash the fermentor and you can rack off above them...

Cheers!

Stupid question, should i cold crash where i plan to siphon to the keg? Will moving it from my garage back to basement bring all the hops back into the beer?

Thanks,
Lorne

 

[day_trippr]

I have to move my crashed carboys about 30 feet to my shop for kegging (should work on solving that I guess) though no stairs are involved. I try not to disturb the bottom debris but inevitably it'll cloud up the bottom few inches. Fortunately, it's still cold (~34°F) so by the time I have everything ready for a CO2 push it's settled back down again.

I do use a piece of fine nylon mesh cut from a paint strainer bag (300 micron maybe?) rubber-banded around the end of the dip tube with an SS washer inside (keeps the bag from collapsing or being sucked up the dip tube) followed by a good Star San soak and that has always kept virtually everything but haze out of the keg...

Cheers!

 

[lorne17]

So I just added my second round of dry hops. I went ahead and swapped out the collection ball on my FastFerment. So I guess technically I'm in secondary now. Then I always fill the ball up with CO2 so all the air going up to the top is gas and not air.

But when I opened the top of the Fast Ferment to pour in the hops, boy was it smelling GOOOOOOD! I can't wait for this beer to be ready. There's TONS of debris, etc in there. But the cold crash will help.

Plus what I think I'll do is use my Hopper (300 Micron) and put the siphon tube inside that. Then all the debris around the hopper won't make it in. Easy Peasy!

Also I think I'll put my FastFerment a bit higher in my garage on my workbench. Then I'll just bring the keg to the garage to transfer it. Close up the keg and carry it all back to the basement. I plan to start cold crash Saturday evening (4 days) and then I will keg it Monday evening (2 days).

Thanks for all your help @day_trippr and @triethylborane! You guys rock!

Lorne

PS - I attached an image of my "Ferminator Chamber". The FastFerment is a love hate relationship. If you don't pay close attention to the connections it quickly becomes a hate relationship. But most the time if you check them and careful, it's a love relationship and helps make fermenting so easy!

 

[lorne17]

So now that the weather in Denver is snow with a high of 26 and a low of 16 tomorrow, is that too cold to crash in garage? I put it out there last night. My guess my garage will be about 20-30F tomorrow. I was going to keg on Tuesday evening because I’m unable to tomorrow night as planned.

My other option is to freeze a bunch of milk jugs and put them in my fermentation chamber and hope it gets cold enough in there to cold crash my beer.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Lorne

 

[triethylborane]

So now that the weather in Denver is snow with a high of 26 and a low of 16 tomorrow, is that too cold to crash in garage? I put it out there last night. My guess my garage will be about 20-30F tomorrow. I was going to keg on Tuesday evening because I’m unable to tomorrow night as planned.

My other option is to freeze a bunch of milk jugs and put them in my fermentation chamber and hope it gets cold enough in there to cold crash my beer.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,
Lorne

Huh, hope we get some snow out of this one.

Dunno what your garage set up is like in terms of insulation factors. I have seen temps get down there when the ambient weather hits the teens for periods of time, maybe 35f. With whatever volume of alcohol you have produced in the beer the freezing temp will be lower. Keep it in the fermentation chamber you built, that will help with insulation.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I have to move my crashed carboys about 30 feet to my shop for kegging (should work on solving that I guess) though no stairs are involved. I try not to disturb the bottom debris but inevitably it'll cloud up the bottom few inches. Fortunately, it's still cold (~34°F) so by the time I have everything ready for a CO2 push it's settled back down again.

I do use a piece of fine nylon mesh cut from a paint strainer bag (300 micron maybe?) rubber-banded around the end of the dip tube with an SS washer inside (keeps the bag from collapsing or being sucked up the dip tube) followed by a good Star San soak and that has always kept virtually everything but haze out of the keg...

Cheers!

View attachment 553126

Where did you get the hose fitting under the gas post? I like your setup!

 

[lorne17]

Huh, hope we get some snow out of this one.

Dunno what your garage set up is like in terms of insulation factors. I have seen temps get down there when the ambient weather hits the teens for periods of time, maybe 35f. With whatever volume of alcohol you have produced in the beer the freezing temp will be lower. Keep it in the fermentation chamber you built, that will help with insulation.

Thanks for the response @triethylborane. I agree we need more snow. Especially the mountains!! So it’s in the garage now and the fermentation chamber is in the basement. Are you saying I should move to the basement rather than be in 16F tonight in garage? My garage is NOT insulated.

Thanks,
Lorne

 

[day_trippr]

Where did you get the hose fitting under the gas post? I like your setup!

chicompany.net carries keg posts and threaded adapters to match. I generally use a Firestone gas post with the matching 1/4" FFL adapter, add a 1/4" nylon flare gasket then thread in a 1/4" MFL barb fitting. That gets clamped to the carboy cap...

Cheers!

 

[lorne17]

FYI, I’ve since cold crashed and kegged. Now it’s ready to drink. At first it was delicious and had a strong citrus hop flavor when I really liked. Now it’s actually tamed down a bit and isn’t as hoppy as I hoped. It’s almost a sweeter taste now and lost its citrus forward flavor. Do you know what could have caused this?

Additionally it’s not very Hazey. Could that have been due to the cold crash?

Thanks,
Lorne

 

[kingmatt]

FYI, I’ve since cold crashed and kegged. Now it’s ready to drink. At first it was delicious and had a strong citrus hop flavor when I really liked. Now it’s actually tamed down a bit and isn’t as hoppy as I hoped. It’s almost a sweeter taste now and lost its citrus forward flavor. Do you know what could have caused this?

Additionally it’s not very Hazey. Could that have been due to the cold crash?

Thanks,
Lorne

Sounds like oxidation to me. NEIPAs are crazy susceptible to oxidation that will affect the beers flavor, aroma and appearance. Check out this brulosophy experiment: http://brulosophy.com/2017/09/11/th...ation-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

 

[lorne17]

Sounds like oxidation to me. NEIPAs are crazy susceptible to oxidation that will affect the beers flavor, aroma and appearance. Check out this brulosophy experiment: http://brulosophy.com/2017/09/11/th...ation-on-new-england-ipa-exbeeriment-results/

Crap!! I’m always so careful I wonder when that could have happened. Is the beer only going to get worse? I’ve never oxidized any of my beers before at least not that I know of.

 

[Azura]

How did you package your beer? Keg or bottle?

 

[lorne17]

How did you package your beer? Keg or bottle?

Keg

 

[lorne17]

Maybe it happened when my beer was steeping hops after the boil for 40 minutes? But the beer tasted fine when I kegged it.

 

[Azura]

Hop steeping is not a problem. Did you dry hop in the keg or only in the fermenter?

 

[lorne17]

Hop steeping is not a problem. Did you dry hop in the keg or only in the fermenter?

I only dry hopped on fermenter. 2 rounds of dry hopping.

 

[Azura]

I only dry hopped on fermenter. 2 rounds of dry hopping.

Ok thanks for answering my dumb questions that careful reading could have answered. I read the recipe you linked. It has 1oz of bittering hops, 3oz of flameout hops steeped for 40-20 minutes at an unspecified temperature and 6oz of dry hops.

IMO, the recipe is not good. Kettle hop flavor additions peak at 15-5 minute additions, then the whole batch needs to chill below 130F in less than 5 minutes. 3oz is not going to produce a lot of kettle hop flavor. 6oz of dry hop should produce some flavor and mostly aroma.

Out of sheer curiosity, I've brewed beers like the the recipe you linked just to see what they do. They are very disappointing compared to no bittering hop, 8oz from 20-0 in the boil, fast chill and 4-6oz dry hop. The end result is often an 80ibu beer that tastes like a 50ibu beer with big hop flavor and aroma that most pro beers don't have.

 

[lorne17]

Ok thanks for answering my dumb questions that careful reading could have answered. I read the recipe you linked. It has 1oz of bittering hops, 3oz of flameout hops steeped for 40-20 minutes at an unspecified temperature and 6oz of dry hops.

IMO, the recipe is not good. Kettle hop flavor additions peak at 15-5 minute additions, then the whole batch needs to chill below 130F in less than 5 minutes. 3oz is not going to produce a lot of kettle hop flavor. 6oz of dry hop should produce some flavor and mostly aroma.

Out of sheer curiosity, I've brewed beers like the the recipe you linked just to see what they do. They are very disappointing compared to no bittering hop, 8oz from 20-0 in the boil, fast chill and 4-6oz dry hop. The end result is often an 80ibu beer that tastes like a 50ibu beer with big hop flavor and aroma that most pro beers don't have.

Hrmmm good to know. Do you have any NEIPA recipes you’d recommend I try then?

 

[kccoop07]

I'll mostly agree with Azura - this isn't as extremely hoppy a recipe as you might expect from the name. But changing one thing should move you a long way in the right direction - keg warm on day ~7 with your 2nd dry hop bagged in the keg (spunding valve recommended).

I couldn't find it - what yeast did you use?

 

[lorne17]

I'll mostly agree with Azura - this isn't as extremely hoppy a recipe as you might expect from the name. But changing one thing should move you a long way in the right direction - keg warm on day ~7 with your 2nd dry hop bagged in the keg (spunding valve recommended).

I couldn't find it - what yeast did you use?

I used Safele US-05 Ale Dry Yeast (two hydrated packs).

Forgive me, what is the one thing you would change? Keg warm (would you cold crash at all?) on day 7. Then add my dry hop round 2 directly into the keg? Would I leave it in there for the entire time it’s being consumed? Usually a keg lasts me 3-5 months. Would that sour or do anything negative to the batch over time?

Also what’s a spunding valve?

 

[kccoop07]

Sorry, I guess you could consider that more than one thing:

1) Your process up thru first dry hop.
2) When fermentation is close to complete, I tie 2nd dry hop bag to dip tube, CO2 purge keg thru dip tube, fill keg thru dip tube (with warm/uncrashed beer).
3) Purge keg headspace for good measure.
4) Let keg naturally carb for ~ a week. Spunding valve = adjustable pressure relief valve.
5) When complete, crash keg, and pour off settled yeast etc. You can leave hops in indefinitely.

 

[Azura]

Hrmmm good to know. Do you have any NEIPA recipes you’d recommend I try then?

NEIPA is not my thing. My comments were based on whether or not this recipe is likely to make a beer with soft bitterness, big hop flavor, thick body and massive aroma. It just looks like the flavor would be 6/10. The aroma should be strong, but not smell it from two feet away strong.

The hardest part about making hoppy beers with big flavor and aroma is the brewing process. Recipes are easier, but still very important. The disappointing result you got was likely due to both.

 

[Burns711]

FYI, I’ve since cold crashed and kegged. Now it’s ready to drink. At first it was delicious and had a strong citrus hop flavor when I really liked. Now it’s actually tamed down a bit and isn’t as hoppy as I hoped. It’s almost a sweeter taste now and lost its citrus forward flavor. Do you know what could have caused this?

Additionally it’s not very Hazey. Could that have been due to the cold crash?

Thanks,
Lorne

Has the brew held up with time or did it get any worse? Just curious on what you would change for the next batch.

 

[lorne17]

Has the brew held up with time or did it get any worse? Just curious on what you would change for the next batch.

It’s held up as a mellow IPA or a pale ale. It’s no where close to a NEIPA but I think that’s be cause I oxidized it. I’d be willing to try this one again once I get my fermentation into kegs so it never sees the light of day until it hits my pint glass!