Belgian Tripel Tripel Karmeliet Clone

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I brewed the updated recipe from jrfehon two days ago using 2xpkts Mangrove Jacks M31 hydrated ($6nzd per pkt opposed to $17 for white labs - and I already had one packet on hand). The only other change is I used Gladfield malts (suitable substitutes) and also the candy sugar I made myself (much more cost-effective, too). I must have mashed with a bit too much water as my OG only came to 1.062 (I think I was anticipating more evaporation from the 90min boil) so I boiled a little bit with 300g of liquid malt syrup and that brought the gravity to 1.070. I know the gravity should be a bit higher but hopefully if this attenuates well, it can still bring the abv to around 8%. The M31 I used was a couple months expired but it has absolutely ripped through the wort with non-stop bubbling from 2hrs with a big krausen and now after 36hrs it has slowed to about 3 per minute and starting to clear a bit at the top.
The wort tasted great at pitching and has a nice smell now coming out of the airlock. I plan on letting it ferment out and then transfer to secondary to cellar for 3 weeks at 10℃ before bottling for a month, or until it tastes good.
Do you think the carbing yeast is necessary? I guess that will give it that big fluffy "Belgian" type of head?
Thanks for posting this recipe. Karmeliet is one of my favourite beers. I used to drink a lot of it when I lived in Europe and really miss it now that I`m back in NZ.
Will update with any news if anyones interested.
 
The CO2 from carbing yeast is no different to the CO2 from "production" yeast - carbing yeast are wine yeasts so have better alcohol tolerance (and may be killer strains) but as long as you're not bumping into the ABV ceiling of your production yeast then there's no real reason to use a carbing yeast specifically.
 
Well after a month in the bottle, I have to say this beer has turned out really well. I don`t have access to the original TK to do a side-by-side comparison, I can only go by my memory of the beer. I know the yeast I used is not the same, but I think the M31 has produced a really nice character - it definitely has that sweet, musty, Belgian note. I think the hop bill and the adjuncts are spot on - I love the coriander and lemon peel, neither of which are strong enough to be too prominent. I would say the one flaw my brew has turned out is that the head retention is quite poor. I get a reasonably fluffy head when I pour but almost immediately it fades away to just a skim. Maybe the carbing yeast would have helped with that.
With that said, Thank you to the creator of this recipe, I`m looking forward to drinking more of this in the months to come.
 

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jrfehon said:
It's been fun following this thread, which I started a few years ago. I'm onto somewhere around my 7th attempt at cloning this beer. My last try had the right flavor but the carbonation was a bit off and the mouthfeel was too thin. So I'm employing a step mash and I'm going to carb in the keg with sugar, instead of force carbing with straight CO2. I brewed this recipe yesterday. It went well, only flaw was my efficiency was low and I missed my targeted OG of 1.081. My second use of a Grain Father so I'm still figuring out how to get better efficiency. I ended up starting at 1.075.

5.5 Gallon Batch - Filtered Tap Water w/ 3 TSP Calcium Carbonate
10.5 LBs Dingmans Pilsner
2LBs Flaked Wheat
1LB Weyerman Wheat Malt
4oz Flaked Oats
4oz Oat Malt
4oz Flaked Barley
1LB Clear Candi Sugar (FO)

.5oz Styrian Goldings (90)
.5oz Styrian Goldings (45)
1oz Saaz (15)
1oz Saaz (5)

2 Star Anise (30 minutes left in boil) (by 2 I mean two stars, not ounces)
1.5oz fresh orange zest (5)
.5oz crushed coriander seeds (5)

Primary Yeast - White Labs 500
Carbing Yest - Salfale BE-256

Mash Steps:
110 Acid Rest (10 Minutes)
122 Protein Rest (15 minutes)
149 Beta Rest (30 Minutes)
158 Alpha Rest (30 Minutes)
172 Mash Out (10 Minutes)

I'm going to follow the fermentation schedule in Brew Like A Monk, 75 degrees for the first week. I might go a bit longer. Then I plan to secondary at 32 for three weeks before kegging (I didn't use any finings so I'm going to have to cold crash to clear it up a bit). I'll update in a few weeks when I transfer to the secondary.
Click to expand...
Hi there, been lurking on this thread intermittently for ages, some excellent work here, thanks to everyone. I was curious how you last batch turned out with the changes. Also how many oranges do you need for 1.5oz of zest? I'm probably going to finally bite the bullet and brew this in a few weeks.
 
Anyone who lives in Houston that would like to try a scaled up version (some tweaks) of this recipe, I won a pro am and brewed 15 barrels of it with Great Heights brewing which will debut on the 17th of November at their first anniversary party. The beer name is Triple Secret Probation so see what the public thinks of the recipe by viewing ratings on untappd! I kept the grain bill and used wlp720 but made some slight tweaks to he hops and spice additions. The beer won first against 26 other entries in the Operation Fermentation V homebrewing competition.
 
Hello! I have bottled this beer today. OG, that I had was 1,071 and FG 1,008. I have tried a sip, from the bottom of my fermenter (154 g of dextrose in 20,5 L of beer) and it is very sweet. Like some limonade. Is something wrong or it is normal for this beer? Do I need to wait for some troubles? (Yeast Mangrove Jack’s Belgian Triple (M31))
 
Last edited:
jrfehon said:
It's been fun following this thread, which I started a few years ago. I'm onto somewhere around my 7th attempt at cloning this beer. My last try had the right flavor but the carbonation was a bit off and the mouthfeel was too thin. So I'm employing a step mash and I'm going to carb in the keg with sugar, instead of force carbing with straight CO2. I brewed this recipe yesterday. It went well, only flaw was my efficiency was low and I missed my targeted OG of 1.081. My second use of a Grain Father so I'm still figuring out how to get better efficiency. I ended up starting at 1.075.

5.5 Gallon Batch - Filtered Tap Water w/ 3 TSP Calcium Carbonate
10.5 LBs Dingmans Pilsner
2LBs Flaked Wheat
1LB Weyerman Wheat Malt
4oz Flaked Oats
4oz Oat Malt
4oz Flaked Barley
1LB Clear Candi Sugar (FO)

.5oz Styrian Goldings (90)
.5oz Styrian Goldings (45)
1oz Saaz (15)
1oz Saaz (5)

2 Star Anise (30 minutes left in boil) (by 2 I mean two stars, not ounces)
1.5oz fresh orange zest (5)
.5oz crushed coriander seeds (5)

Primary Yeast - White Labs 500
Carbing Yest - Salfale BE-256

Mash Steps:
110 Acid Rest (10 Minutes)
122 Protein Rest (15 minutes)
149 Beta Rest (30 Minutes)
158 Alpha Rest (30 Minutes)
172 Mash Out (10 Minutes)

I'm going to follow the fermentation schedule in Brew Like A Monk, 75 degrees for the first week. I might go a bit longer. Then I plan to secondary at 32 for three weeks before kegging (I didn't use any finings so I'm going to have to cold crash to clear it up a bit). I'll update in a few weeks when I transfer to the secondary.
Click to expand...

Any update on how this batch turned out? Lots of good information in this thread. Thank you
 
oh and if you click on the untappd link there are lots of pictures of the beer. Still hazy. Biofine couldn't clear it up!
 
Solid thread! Thank you to the OG and OP - I suggest they go back and edit the original post to include the most recent recipe to avoid any confusion for first time viewers!

As a fan of this beer, one of my favorite, I brewed some triple of late. We did not spice it up - but we did three yeasts side by side! Fun times...

OG: 1.081
FG WLP500: 1.011 - super fruit
FG WLP570: 1.007 - restrainted fruit, banana
FG WY1762 (Rochfort): 1.008 - ethanol, phenols, more full mouthfeel - potential for plastic phenols.

Wish I had some WY Forbidden Fruit numbers, but I can say I HAVE brewed a really nice Witbier with it before! Very fluffy. I think this might be a good TK yeast!

Cheers,
~Adam
 
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Kosten said:
Hello! I have bottled this beer today. OG, that I had was 1,071 and FG 1,008. I have tried a sip, from the bottom of my fermenter (154 g of dextrose in 20,5 L of beer) and it is very sweet. Like some limonade. Is something wrong or it is normal for this beer? Do I need to wait for some troubles? (Yeast Mangrove Jack’s Belgian Triple (M31))
Click to expand...

Let it conditioned. Probably the yeast is dormant or dropped out. Hope you gave it time!
 
I brewed my version on Sunday and it’s ready to hit the secondary today. OG of 1.081 is now 1.009. I used Imperial Yeast’s “Triple Double” so we’ll see how it turns out.
I almost make a HUGE mistake. I bought 2 oz or star anise and was ready to dump both into the boiler and then it dawned on me... is that way too much? YEP! Sure would have been!! Use 2-3 pieces of anise instead of ounces.

It’s tasking pretty good so are! We’ll see after it rests in the secondary for a bit.
 
Irfehon,

Thanks for starting this thread. TK is one of my favorite beers and I am going to try to brew a similar clone. I have heard differing opinions about using spices or not. Your recipe has the spices. Did you ever try this recipe without any spices? Although BLAM says it uses spices...

Also, I have seen Grains of Paradise associated with this beer recipe but you have used star of anise which I have never heard of. Any reason? What flavors would Star of Anise bring compared to Grains of Paradise?

I am thinking of using WLP500 for the yeast. Thanks again!
 
Bassman2003 said:
Irfehon,

Thanks for starting this thread. TK is one of my favorite beers and I am going to try to brew a similar clone. I have heard differing opinions about using spices or not. Your recipe has the spices. Did you ever try this recipe without any spices? Although BLAM says it uses spices...

Also, I have seen Grains of Paradise associated with this beer recipe but you have used star of anise which I have never heard of. Any reason? What flavors would Star of Anise bring compared to Grains of Paradise?

I am thinking of using WLP500 for the yeast. Thanks again!
Click to expand...

I`ve never used Grains of Paradise but Star Anise obviously gives an anise/licorice flavour. That being said, I couldn`t detect any defined flavours from any of the spices because they are used in restraint. I think they are there to add a bit more complexity rather than contribute any prominent flavours.
 
Hi all,

some great info in here. I'm looking at brewing a Tripel myself soon.
Several recipes I have seen for the style recommend cold crashing a 2 to 4 weeks before packaging (I'll be bottling). However all my fridges are usually tied up with IPA kegs on tap. Does this cold crashing step really improve the end product?
If so then I'll wait until I have a month fee in one of my fridges before brewing it.
Or else just order a new fridge :)

Thanks!
 
Hello, everyone. I used all the information in this thread to build a recipe for a TK clone. However, the two LHBS close to my place don't hold neither WLP500 neither Wyeast 3463 (the two yeasts I noticed to be commented a lot).

Yeasts they have:
- White Labs WLP530, WLP540, WLP545
- Wyeast 3787, 1214, 1388, 3522, 1762

Which ones would you guys recommend as the closest replacement for the Wyeast 3463? I looked online for that yeast and all places were out of stock, maybe they stopped producing it...

Thanks!
 
brew2015 said:
Hello, everyone. I used all the information in this thread to build a recipe for a TK clone. However, the two LHBS close to my place don't hold neither WLP500 neither Wyeast 3463 (the two yeasts I noticed to be commented a lot).
Click to expand...

Buy the yeast online through a reputable vendor, such as MoreBeer, AustinHomeBrewSupply, or others you may have heard. It's winter so yeast is OK to ship unlike the summer.
 
Shenanigans said:
Hi all,

some great info in here. I'm looking at brewing a Tripel myself soon.
Several recipes I have seen for the style recommend cold crashing a 2 to 4 weeks before packaging (I'll be bottling). However all my fridges are usually tied up with IPA kegs on tap. Does this cold crashing step really improve the end product?
If so then I'll wait until I have a month fee in one of my fridges before brewing it.
Or else just order a new fridge :)
Click to expand...

Cold crashing WILL improve your clarity, but you may need to add yeast back to the bottles when you add priming sugar. In fact, I would just plan for this. You NEED to make sure this beer carbonates.

I moved away from bottling mainly to reduce the workload, but I see the need for beers like this. Have you considered, kegging it to cold crash it? Then bottle?

Just be sure to keep some CO2 pressure on the keg as it cools, to avoid sucking air in.

Just an idea...
 
brew2015 said:
Hello, everyone. I used all the information in this thread to build a recipe for a TK clone. However, the two LHBS close to my place don't hold neither WLP500 neither Wyeast 3463 (the two yeasts I noticed to be commented a lot).

Yeasts they have:
- White Labs WLP530, WLP540, WLP545
- Wyeast 3787, 1214, 1388, 3522, 1762

Which ones would you guys recommend as the closest replacement for the Wyeast 3463? I looked online for that yeast and all places were out of stock, maybe they stopped producing it...

Thanks!
Click to expand...
The Mr. Malty site says WLP 500 is the same as WY 1214
 
Personally I wouldn't cold crash to drop the yeast and then turn around and add some back in. Just let it ride.
 
Going to make another attempt at this beer as my first one didn't end up very good. Was my first brew on my Grainfather and efficiency was horrible. Added 3 times the amount of orange peel by mistake to start which never faded. Have all my ingredients ready to go but just need a good water profile for it. I use RO water, has anyone got a good profile?
 
aaronm13 said:
Going to make another attempt at this beer as my first one didn't end up very good. Was my first brew on my Grainfather and efficiency was horrible. Added 3 times the amount of orange peel by mistake to start which never faded. Have all my ingredients ready to go but just need a good water profile for it. I use RO water, has anyone got a good profile?
Click to expand...

When I made this a while back I used the Chimay profile: Ca 70ppm, Mg 7ppm, Na 7ppm, SO4 21ppm, Cl 21ppm, HCO3 216ppm
 
Squelch said:
This is the one that won Operation Fermentation in Texas, and it was modified to brew the commercial batch.

Here's the link to the 15 Barrel version brewed with Great Heights on Untappd: Tripel Secret Probation - Great Heights Brewing Company - Untappd

It's currently holding a 4.01 rating on Untapped and is waiting for TABC approval before distribution.
View attachment 603457
Click to expand...
Hi
I'm going to make this recipe in this autumn. I have searched for the ingredients in my home brew shop and I found naked oats by crisp. Can I use it instead of the malted oats.
What's the mashing temperature?
What is the licorice root? The star anise?
About the candy sugar. Is it better to use the white or the brown one?
Thank you for your time
 
nick113 said:
Hi
I'm going to make this recipe in this autumn. I have searched for the ingredients in my home brew shop and I found naked oats by crisp. Can I use it instead of the malted oats.
What's the mashing temperature?
What is the licorice root? The star anise?
About the candy sugar. Is it better to use the white or the brown one?
Thank you for your time
Click to expand...
I don't recommend golden naked oats. Look for Fawcett Oat Malt. I did a step mash, 15 min @137, 30 min at 144, 30 min @ 154. use clear candi sugar or simplicity syrup. do NOT use star anise. Use licorice root. Licorice Root - 2 oz | MoreBeer
 
Squelch said:
I don't recommend golden naked oats. Look for Fawcett Oat Malt. I did a step mash, 15 min @137, 30 min at 144, 30 min @ 154. use clear candi sugar or simplicity syrup. do NOT use star anise. Use licorice root. Licorice Root - 2 oz | MoreBeer
Click to expand...
First of all, thank you for your time.
Unfortunately, here, in Greece, I can't find oats malt. Could I replace it with an other one? So, about the Licorice, perhaps I could find some in the store with spices. It is the simple Licorice right? Thanks again.
 
I see you're in greece. I would use flaked oats instead of malted. the licorice comes from the root of the plant. not sure how else you could get this. I do fine the licorice brings a sweetness to the beer that cannot be replicated.
 
Hey, thanks for the video! Great to see a large variance over different brews. TK is my favorite tripel. So complex yet simply satisfying. I will be trying to perfect this beer for a long time. What do you think the percentages of the three grains they use for the beer? Do you think they use a lot of Rye and wheat or token amounts?
 
AOD said:
Cold crashing WILL improve your clarity, but you may need to add yeast back to the bottles when you add priming sugar. In fact, I would just plan for this. You NEED to make sure this beer carbonates.

I moved away from bottling mainly to reduce the workload, but I see the need for beers like this. Have you considered, kegging it to cold crash it? Then bottle?

Just be sure to keep some CO2 pressure on the keg as it cools, to avoid sucking air in.

Just an idea...
Click to expand...

Sorry I forgot to reply.
Problem with cold crashing for me is that I only have a small kegerator for 2 kegs and it's rarely not full.
I'll try to plan it in somehow, it might indeed be be an option to transfer to a keg from the bucket.
Then I would still have space to have at least one keg on tap.
However that would be an additional transfer step that I would like to avoid due to risk of oxidation as I will be bottling it.

Anyway, I finally ordered some licorice root and I will make some kind of version of this in the next few months.
Doesnt have to be an exact clone as I'm going to give MJ M31 a try.

Hopfully I'll have a tasy ice cold triple to drink in the Summer evenings.
A bit strong I know but still one of my favourite Summer beer styles with fries and chilli mayo 🤤
 
Hi, there.

I've alreay read all the post but still can't figure out why are they using a wine yeast to make beer. I'm kind of new in the brewing world, so there are some things that escape from me.

Is the crazy mash schedule of CSI intended to produce very fermentable sugars for the wine yeast?

Is that the issue? Or is it that stressed wine yeast can be useful in belgians?
 

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