sdenue57
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I'm wondering if maybe the flour gives the hop oils something more to cling on to? Similar to using flour to make gravy?
Treehouse Style IPA's
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Awesome article. I have been refining my White IPA recipe for 2 years now, and I completely agree with your sentiment about commercial beers falling flat. Marrying two styles of beer takes patience and practice and not just half of this and half of that.
Just curious, but where do you order your bulk hops from? And how long will they keep in a conventional freezer? I usually buy all mine from the LHBS and use them within a week so I'm not familiar with hop storage.
Thanks. Appreciate the feedback
I buy most of my hops from farmhouse brewing supply. They beat sites like northern Brewer and adventures in home brewing by literally 50%. I'll also occasionally get hops straight from yakima for experimental ones
I actually don't have room in my freezer for hops but I've found they keep very well for months in vacuum sealed bags. The food sealer I got has paid itself off over and over again
iijakii
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As far as storage if you vacuum seal them in the freezer they should last for a very long time. Ive used some close to a year later and they're nice and vibrant smelling still. There are calculators out there that'll estimate loss of AA%. Personally I've never bothered and haven't noticed less effectiveness, but that's not to say they dont degrade over time.
I've drank a good bit of beer from Tired Hands here in Philly, and the beers you describe sound very similar to their style. I've even tried my hand at a clone which came out pretty good but still a bit short. My brew was based on this great article: http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/08/tired-hands-hophands-clone-revisted.html
I think the keys are:
* Use flaked or golden oats for mouthfeel.
* Use English Ale yeast (Tired Hands uses Wyeast London Ale III and I do to) for the fruity character and cloudiness it brings.
* Use more hops than seems sane. If you aren't buying hops by the pound you shouldn't even attempt these styles because you will go broke. Get a cheap vacuum sealer, buy in bulk.
I think the keys are:
* Use flaked or golden oats for mouthfeel.
* Use English Ale yeast (Tired Hands uses Wyeast London Ale III and I do to) for the fruity character and cloudiness it brings.
* Use more hops than seems sane. If you aren't buying hops by the pound you shouldn't even attempt these styles because you will go broke. Get a cheap vacuum sealer, buy in bulk.
That's basically what I try to say in that article im working on. Only other things I added are:
- get FG as low as possible. mash low and use some cane sugar (esp for DIPAs)
- use some wheat if you arent using a decent amount of oats
- keep boil additions in check
OP
OP
jasonfitzg
Active Member
I have some interesting results from my last batch...The London III definitely made a difference, and also seems to have a fruitier nose (pineapple/mango). Below is the London III. I'll post 05 pics later. I did dry hop in the keg, but think dry-hopping at the end of active ferm would be better, and result in less clogged dip tubes, and less vegetal tastes (only slightly tasted in this case). Both beers were very, very good, and very treehouse/artisan craft house style...Thick, fruity, etc...Next time dryhop in 2 stages (end of ferm, and then pull hops and add second stage dry in primary bucket before transferring)
Really intrigued by the idea of adding flour. Think that'd work in other styles? I'm thinking of brewing a low IBU but hoppy (big hop stand at 180 degrees, just a little bittering) American wheat. Good fit for adding flour?
moreb33rplz
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I dunno. Flour in beer to make it intentionally cloudy? That seems far out man.
23 ounces of hops seems insane for 5 gallons. In my opinion, if you employ certain techniques, such as moving all your hops to a hop stand (except the bittering charge) at the right temperature, dry hopping 2-3 times (3-4 days contact), and flushing all vessels with CO2 when possible. Dry hop once towards the end of primary, again in secondary, and/or keg hop. I've never had to go over 8 ounces at the hop stand and usually use 4-6 ounces. Then 2 dry hop additions additions of 2-3 ounces each, once towards the end of primary and once in a flushed keg. I then will jump the keg off the hops into another flushed keg and carbonate. This method achieves the juiciness you seek. Keep your crystal malts at 2% or less, and 20% oats will be great for mouth feel appearance.
For cloudiness, try keeping your calcium to a minimum (just what is required for yeast health, as it will greatly aid in clarifying your beers). Though this can be a challenge with getting sulfate levels high. Also, as mentioned, yeast choice will greatly effect clarity, flavor, aroma, etc. One of the juiciest IPAs I make is a mixed ferment with brett and an english strain.
For cloudiness, try keeping your calcium to a minimum (just what is required for yeast health, as it will greatly aid in clarifying your beers). Though this can be a challenge with getting sulfate levels high. Also, as mentioned, yeast choice will greatly effect clarity, flavor, aroma, etc. One of the juiciest IPAs I make is a mixed ferment with brett and an english strain.
I convinced my local brewery to start using flour in their wheats since they clear within a week of kegging. My OJ inspired double IPA was still very cloudy after 4 weeks in the keg. I also think the flour helped with its body
Calichusetts
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I don't use flour and some of my IPAs take weeks to clear, some never really do.
henchman24
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When I was reading on adding flour... I read about people doing it to keep wits from clearing over weeks in the keg. If you want some haze in a beer I think it would work across styles. In the end it is just wheat (assuming people are just using normal all purpose flour). I've even read that Chimay uses flour in their beer.
All my IPAs have some haze and usually don't fully clear by the time I am done (most only last 2-4 weeks)... adding flour took it to a totally different level. If I still had one on tap, I'd take a picture... Next time I brew one, I'll be sure to snap a pic and post it up here.
All my IPAs have some haze and usually don't fully clear by the time I am done (most only last 2-4 weeks)... adding flour took it to a totally different level. If I still had one on tap, I'd take a picture... Next time I brew one, I'll be sure to snap a pic and post it up here.
BreezyBrew
IPA is my spirit animal
Okay, in your mind, are there appreciable differences in flavor?
That would be the only reason for me to do so.
This is a DIPA that I used 4oz of flour in the boil. 4 weeks in the keg. Also had flaked wheats and oats to help with the body since I spiked fermentation with a saison yeast to get nice and dry it to 1.006
I think the flour helped a bit with body, in addition to the oats/wheat
edit: whoops realized I put up the same pic already. cant unattach it....my bad
I think the flour helped a bit with body, in addition to the oats/wheat
edit: whoops realized I put up the same pic already. cant unattach it....my bad
henchman24
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There was. It had more body (this was easily noticeable) and the fruity part of the hops seemed to be more prominent (my theory is the flour gives them more to contrast off of). I brewed IPAs on back to back weeks with the same yeast (Conan), same grain bill minus flour (75% 2 row/20% malted wheat/5% flaked wheat), both had .75lbs of dextrose, and had the same hop schedule except the bittering at 90 min (Warrior vs Columbus... roughly the same calculated IBUs at 60). Obviously the flour bumped up the alcohol a touch, but the non floured was 1.074... floured 1.076 (part of that could be a minor efficiency variation). Both finished at 1.012.
henchman24
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That seems about right with my (limited) experience with it.
@M00ps was nice enough to trade some brews with me and I just tried the DIPA he is talking about. Took a photo in better lighting and the cloudiness looks great....didn't think it was possible to be so clear and cloudy at the same time if that even makes sense. The aroma and juicy flavor is not describable...fantastic!
@M00ps was nice enough to trade some brews with me and I just tried the DIPA he is talking about. Took a photo in better lighting and the cloudiness looks great....didn't think it was possible to be so clear and cloudy at the same time if that even makes sense. The aroma and juicy flavor is not describable...fantastic!
Looks nice. Can you compare the juice character or other aspects to any commercial brews?
iijakii
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Man I really need to brew an IPA with some flour now.
iijakii
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Might try adding some flour to one of my stouts and see if it makes a noticeable increase to the body as well.
Couldn't it be that these breweries aren't really concerend with filtering or cold crashing to clear the beer plus they prob use a ridiculous amount of late hops and dry hops which will leave a haze plus their yeast strain could all contribute to a more hazy beer. I actually prefer a cloud or hazy beer idk why its just me, I'm just trying to wrap my head around purposely hazing a beer by adding flour, kudos to moops for his experimentation, not knocking that, but I can't image the big guys are adding flour to their beer so shouldn't we be able to find the way they do it other than fabricate it?
henchman24
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That would go against the whole trying to keep it hazy thought, so no. Cold crashing happens in the keg regardless since it has to get cold at some point, but I wouldn't think about cold crashing in the fermentor if going after this style.
With my IPAs in general, but especially this style... I'm haven't been in the least concerned with filtering (I never have filtered) and cold crashing. I have used a ridiculous amount of hops and used yeast to closer replicate the style... I could get hazy, but not to the same level.
As I said earlier, I've read that Chimay actually uses flour in their beers... so Treehouse, Trillium, Tired Hand etc may not use flour, but some breweries do. When you get down to the brass tacks here wheat flour is ground up wheat without the husks (and obviously not malted). With enough flaked wheat, you could probably get the same result as I got. The flour just made it easier to achieve. When using flour in the boil, that doesn't allow the starch to get converted in the mash and will create some intentional starch haze... I haven't used more than a tablespoon yet in that area.
Calichusetts
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Chimay uses flour for head retention. They crash their beer for clarity
