Trading dregs?

[brownni5]

It seems that a common complaint on this forum is "I don't have access to commercial sours in my area/commercial sours are too expensive so I can only acquire commercial lab pitches." I encounter those same problems in my area, though sometimes I venture outside of my home range and come across some good sour beers. Next month, I'll be going to my niece's graduation party, and wouldn't you know, there's a Jolly Pumpkin brew pub just a short drive away (and another sour producer I'm excited to try). For something I know is going to be really good, and with the added bonus of collecting a few bugs along the way, price isn't the greatest impediment to me. However, beers like Jester King, 3 Fonteinen, Cantillon, Russian River, etc. still elude me. (but man, I can get all the Michelob Golden Light I want!)

Anybody interested in trading vials of collected dregs? Shipping a small vial within North America can't be that expensive, and much cheaper than shipping beers. I know MTF had a FB group for trading cultures/bugs (private group I just learned of and requested entry today), but I also know not everyone has or is interested in a FB account.

Anyhow, I'm willing when I have things if others are interested.

 

[redllama]

I'd be interested. I have a brewing neighbor who is French and every time he goes he brings back a full suitcase full of lambic. Not sure what his cellar looks like at the moment but I'd be happy to prop up some dregs and send out to people next time we crack open a bottle.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm in the MTF group, but Facebook irritates me so I don't go on there much. (It was cool back in 2005.)

I also wouldn't mind sharing cultures if people are in need. More funky beer all around!

I grow mixed cultures in hopped wort unless otherwise noted, so the LAB should maintain tolerance.
Here are the dregs currently in my ranch:

• Pretentious - Exultation
• Pretentious - Magnanimous
• Jackie O's - Hockhocking
• Jackie O's - Elle
• 3 Floyds - Deesko
• Shacksbury - Dry (propped in sugar, no hops)

I may also have a variety of wild cultures. I'm going to capture some more this weekend and I should be adding more dregs shortly. Unfortunately they don't always grow.

I can update with tasting notes later if this thread stays alive.

I'll be happy to trade, just post here or PM. Cheers!

 

[jimfire85]

I've got dregs cultured and slanted from
Firestone walker,
OEC brewing here in CT and Two Roads from their newly opened mixed culture barrel facility. Those are just my non commercial cultures, I've got another 15 or so slanted and frozen stocks of commercially available strains of clean and mixed cultures.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I've got dregs cultured and slanted from
Firestone walker,
OEC brewing here in CT and Two Roads from their newly opened mixed culture barrel facility. Those are just my non commercial cultures, I've got another 15 or so slanted and frozen stocks of commercially available strains of clean and mixed cultures.

What did you capture from Area 2? I just finished a bottle of the Urban Funk and captured the dregs, haven't tried them out yet though.

 

[brownni5]

Right now, most of my stuff is mixed with commercial cultures, but I can be sure to keep separate in the future. I'm excited to get more JP and am really excited about Speciation Ales - they look to have some interesting stuff.

I have mixed feelings about trading commercially available cultures - some of these labs are run by really cool people trying to carve out a niche - not sure I want to take away from them.

I'll get back to the thread this summer some time.

 

[jimfire85]

What did you capture from Area 2? I just finished a bottle of the Urban Funk and captured the dregs, haven't tried them out yet though.

Harvested dregs from a bottle of the blood peach lambic style ale. Might go down this weekend to see if they still have the whiskey sour bottles from the other weekend

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Oh that’s smart I drank mine without harvesting. I’m a newbie yeast rancher my first fresh ferment went bad on me I have to be more careful.

 

[jready]

I’d love to join in this. I have a decent little collection of sours from a good range of breweries but I need to drink and then culture them. Work work work!

 

[khannon]

Still working this out in my head, but here is what I am thinking along the lines of..

I have access to 3 Fontinen, Cantillon, Jolly Pumpkin, Draai Laag, and numerous other Sour, or wild beers, and while I have the stuff to step up starters, I don't know that I trust my ability to package and mail to others, so if someone was willing to do that side of the process, I would be happy if we got a small group, to ship(or meet in person if localish to western MA) someone a bottle or two of something, and have them ship out vial of yeast/bugs to those interested(including myself)?

It might give someone a chance to try something they might not otherwise be able to get their hands on something they might not otherwise try etc.. I am also not on Facebook, and have no desire to, so I haven't gotten into any of those groups..

Anyone got the desire to set something like this up?
Also does anyone have experience with the glycerin and freezing of wild cultures? Just starting to try this with some other yeasts, and wondering if something similar could be done?

Kevin

 

[Sandstorm]

Still working this out in my head, but here is what I am thinking along the lines of..

I have access to 3 Fontinen, Cantillon, Jolly Pumpkin, Draai Laag, and numerous other Sour, or wild beers, and while I have the stuff to step up starters, I don't know that I trust my ability to package and mail to others, so if someone was willing to do that side of the process, I would be happy if we got a small group, to ship(or meet in person if localish to western MA) someone a bottle or two of something, and have them ship out vial of yeast/bugs to those interested(including myself)?

It might give someone a chance to try something they might not otherwise be able to get their hands on something they might not otherwise try etc.. I am also not on Facebook, and have no desire to, so I haven't gotten into any of those groups..

Anyone got the desire to set something like this up?
Also does anyone have experience with the glycerin and freezing of wild cultures? Just starting to try this with some other yeasts, and wondering if something similar could be done?

Kevin

How far west? I’m fairly close to Boston and am a big yeast geek. I have a handful of dregs I feed every few months, a small frozen yeast bank with glycerine/ypd and some common yeast under wort in my fridge.

I love dregs and would be down!

 

[jimfire85]

Same! I'm off 84 in northern CT. Setup to do slants, glycerin frozen stocks and isotonic storage. I'll pm you once finals are over this week and I'm on days off from work.

 

[brownni5]

What about The Bruery Terreaux? Are those dregs viable? My guess is they are, but I also read that they centrifuge their "clean" beers, and that's only within the past couple years, I believe since The Mad Fermentationist has updated his list of bottles with good dregs.

 

[Amadeo38]

This should help:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html

Edit: haha I just read the last sentence of your post, @brownni5 , but the link should be helpful regardless.

 

[khannon]

OK, putting this together sometime next week.. in Amherst MA, so not close to Boston, but not too far away(even though the world fall off at least twice

 

[RPh_Guy]

It seems like someone would keep a current list of bottles with live dregs.

I'd be interested in trading for Cantillon and Drie!

 

[jready]

I have some really good ones but sounds like this is more of an area specific deal so guess I’m out.

 

[khannon]

I don't think it is too area specific, there are plenty of ways to get things from one place to another without having to go there yourself these days. I think the idea is more sour beer for all, and that includes people who don't live super close to the center of the universe that is New England.

 

[j1laskey]

I am also interested in this share.

I currently culture/spin my dregs in 300ml of DME for 3-4 days (depending on the seed volume) at room temp.

I then pour the culture into a 250ml Corning conical tube. The pellet forms at the bottom, and is stored under wort at 4 degrees.

Currently I have Trillium (wild), Paradox (machine gun funk), Orval, Cambridge Brewing Company (Cerise Cass'ee), Alchemist (Conan), The Veil (Broz Nightout), and a few more I would have to go home at look to remember (I'm at work at the moment).

As for sours in my cellar, that I still need to drink, and then culture I have 3 Fontinen, The Bruery Terreaux, The Veil, more Trillium strains, Pure Project, Austin Street, Norway Brewing Company, Oxbow Brewing Company, and more that I'll need to wait until I get home to make complete list.

I will be receiving dregs from RR soon also. A buddy of mine got a few bottles in a trade. When he drinks them he will save the dregs for me.

I work in Boston, but live just north of the city.

I have shipped in the winter months before and have not worried about temperature/viability issues. I am curious if anyone has any experience with shipping stocks in the warmer months?

Also, I am very curious on glycol/freezing procedures! I would love to be able to store smaller aliquots at -20.

 

[brownni5]

I'd be interested in trading for Cantillon and Drie!

Wouldn't we all.

Of course I don't have that stuff, but I'll wait until at least this summer to start asking around - nothing built up and separated out right now. Glad to see so many willing parties though.

 

[brownni5]

I have some really good ones but sounds like this is more of an area specific deal so guess I’m out.

Not at all! Unless you're in Korea or something - and even then, maybe!

 

[jready]

Ha! Just in Tennessee so not too bad. I need to work on some culturing procedures. I have Jolly Pumpkin, Jester King, Wicked Weed, Burial, The Vail, Yazoo, Russian River, Alligash, Odd Story, West 6th, Mantra, Cigar City and a few others. I travel a ton for work so I always try to grab a few local bottles when I can.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Here's my advice for handling dregs:

1. Save the last bit of beer from a bottle. You don't need to use it right away, you can cover and put it back in the fridge if you don't have time right at that moment to make a starter.
2. Make hopped starter wort. 100g DME and 1.5g low AA hops per liter brought to a boil and chilled.
3. I like using 8oz Mason jars. Add about 100-150mL of the wort per jar. You can get a 12-pack of jars at Walmart or other stores that have kitchen items.
4. Swirl the dregs in the bottle and add to the jar.
5. Put on the lid and leave it a little loose. About 1/4 turn from closed so there's wiggle room.
6. Leave at room temp. You should see activity within a couple weeks.
7. Every 3-6 months tighten the jars, give it a good shake to mixed up all the sediment. Pour out 80-90%. Add 100mL of new hopped starter wort. Even after sitting for 6 months you'll see activity within 24 hours of feeding.

Tips:
- Cold storage, slanting, or anything more fancy than leaving it in a jar at room temp is not necessary.
- Don't fully tighten the jars; we don't want explosions.
- This same procedure can also be used for capturing wild yeast, except add 0.5-0.6mL of 88% lactic acid per liter to the starter wort.
- If you're out at a restaurant or bar and want to save some dregs, see if they can give you a to-go sauce cup with a lid. Don't tell them it's for beer.
- Whenever you want to add the culture to a batch, just mix it up and dump in a little bit. Cell count is irrelevant. Easy peasy.

Shipping:
1. Make a normal saline solution: 9g salt per liter of water.
2. Add 1mL of sediment from the jar and 4mL of saline to a 5mL plastic vial.
These look OK and are already sterile but I haven't used them:
https://www.amazon.com/5-0-Sample-Tubes-sterile-Pack/dp/B014RWP3FI/
These are cheaper but still look ok:
https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Frozen-Calibration-Scientific-Experiment/dp/B074GZJYVW/
3. Put tape around the cap and you're ready to ship. Ice pack and insulation are optional depending on the season.

In my experience, freezing doesn't reduce culture viability enough to matter. Extreme heat might.

Cheers

 

[brownni5]

I've got a lot of these leftover from our youngest - bigger than is necessary for shipping dregs, but very versatile for yeast endeavors otherwise. I freeze yeast in them, store small starters in them, store small cultures, etc. Insert jokes as you see fit.

https://kiinde.com/product/6oz-twist-pouch/

 

[jready]

Here's my advice for handling dregs:

1. Save the last bit of beer from a bottle. You don't need to use it right away, you can cover and put it back in the fridge if you don't have time right at that moment to make a starter.
2. Make hopped starter wort. 100g DME and 1.5g low AA hops per liter brought to a boil and chilled.
3. I like using 8oz Mason jars. Add about 100-150mL of the wort per jar. You can get a 12-pack of jars at Walmart or other stores that have kitchen items.
4. Swirl the dregs in the bottle and add to the jar.
5. Put on the lid and leave it a little loose. About 1/4 turn from closed so there's wiggle room.
6. Leave at room temp. You should see activity within a couple weeks.
7. Every 3-6 months tighten the jars, give it a good shake to mixed up all the sediment. Pour out 80-90%. Add 100mL of new hopped starter wort. Even after sitting for 6 months you'll see activity within 24 hours of feeding.

Tips:
- Cold storage, slanting, or anything more fancy than leaving it in a jar at room temp is not necessary.
- Don't fully tighten the jars; we don't want explosions.
- This same procedure can also be used for capturing wild yeast, except add 0.5-0.6mL of 88% lactic acid per liter to the starter wort.
- If you're out at a restaurant or bar and want to save some dregs, see if they can give you a to-go sauce cup with a lid. Don't tell them it's for beer.
- Whenever you want to add the culture to a batch, just mix it up and dump in a little bit. Cell count is irrelevant. Easy peasy.

Shipping:
1. Make a normal saline solution: 9g salt per liter of water.
2. Add 1mL of sediment from the jar and 4mL of saline to a 5mL plastic vial.
These look OK and are already sterile but I haven't used them:
https://www.amazon.com/5-0-Sample-Tubes-sterile-Pack/dp/B014RWP3FI/
These are cheaper but still look ok:
https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Frozen-Calibration-Scientific-Experiment/dp/B074GZJYVW/
3. Put tape around the cap and you're ready to ship. Ice pack and insulation are optional depending on the season.

In my experience, freezing doesn't reduce culture viability enough to matter. Extreme heat might.

Cheers

This I can follow. I have 4 Jester King bottles that I will fall on the sward and use this method to culture. I have used bottle dregs as a add to my long term sours but not to culture. I have several Russian River, De Garde, and Burial that I could do the same. Once I nail that I can tackle some of my one off bottles

 

[khannon]

I've got a lot of these leftover from our youngest - bigger than is necessary for shipping dregs, but very versatile for yeast endeavors otherwise. I freeze yeast in them, store small starters in them, store small cultures, etc. Insert jokes as you see fit.

https://kiinde.com/product/6oz-twist-pouch/

I feel like there is a fokkers "If it's got a nipple, you can milk it" joke here, but hate to be "that guy"...
Meanwhile over in HBT..https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/random-picture-thread.579534/page-173#post-8593454 there is this going on..

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I'll have to try that protocol. I have a couple Hill Farmstead bottles left as well as La Terrier and La Folie from New Belgium. I'd love to have an HF and NB culture for playing with.

 

[j1laskey]

Well let’s start the trading already !

 

[brownni5]

Well let’s start the trading already !

I thought RPHguy already had - he wants some Belgian stuff Drei and Cantillon. I'll second that! Here's what I'm looking for:
- Jester King
- 3 Fonteinen
- Cantillon

Here's what I can offer:
- New Belgium (C&C, not pasteurized)
- Schell's Noble Star
- Lindeman's Gueuze
- Cascade (maybe - haven't tried culturing it just yet)
And soon:
- Jolly Pumpkin
- Speciation Ales (spontaneous ferment)

Edit: Fair State Sacch Trois/Brett Drie blend (no bacteria) too

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I have a bottle of 3 Fonteinen Oude Geueze in my bottle collection, if there is a demand when I open it I can prepare a couple vials to send into the great unknown.

 

[RPh_Guy]

La Terrier and La Folie

Check that they're newer and unpasteurized.

3 Fonteinen Oude Geueze

That's one of my favorites

I just ordered some of the vials I linked, so I'll be ready to go shortly.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

I picked up the La Folie and La Terrior from the brewery about a month ago. Haven't checked the bottle will it say if it's pasteurized or should I just shoot the brewery an email?

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

That's one of my favorites

My girlfriend did not like it at all, but it is one of the more complex beers I have ever had, really pleasant all the way through the complexity, wish the bottle limit was higher when I picked them up at Hill Farmstead .

 

[RPh_Guy]

I picked up the La Folie and La Terrior from the brewery about a month ago. Haven't checked the bottle will it say if it's pasteurized or should I just shoot the brewery an email?

My understanding is that the new corked+caged bottles are unpasteurized.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Cool, these both fit that bill. I'll shoot the boys an email and see if they confirm anyway. In any event I wanted to harvest from the "first American sour beers" so hopefully this is correct.

I'll have to buy some vials or containers and start fridging some of these. Emailed Hill Farmstead too to see if their bottle I have are pasteurized. they aren't C&C so maybe not.

 

[jready]

My understanding is that the new corked+caged bottles are unpasteurized.

I was at NB in Asheville last week and purchased a couple of bottles that are corked and caged I will see if it says anything on the bottles

 

[jready]

I thought RPHguy already had - he wants some Belgian stuff Drei and Cantillon. I'll second that! Here's what I'm looking for:
- Jester King
- 3 Fonteinen
- Cantillon

Here's what I can offer:
- New Belgium (C&C, not pasteurized)
- Schell's Noble Star
- Lindeman's Gueuze
- Cascade (maybe - haven't tried culturing it just yet)
And soon:
- Jolly Pumpkin
- Speciation Ales (spontaneous ferment)

I gotcha covered on Jester King. I am out of town next week but plan to drink my bottles next weekend and start the culturing

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

Vials ordered.

 

[j1laskey]

I also have more sours In the cellar after I checked....Plan Bee (Barn Beer) Barrel and Beam, (Spooky Kriek) Tired hands (Omelas and Prayer Group) Alchemist (wild child), Lindemans (Cuvée Rene)

 

[brownni5]

Cool, these both fit that bill. I'll shoot the boys an email and see if they confirm anyways

.

I can save you the trouble - checked in with them a month or so ago and the C&C bottles for NB are NOT pasteurized. But, just because that is the way they do things doesn't mean all breweries are like that. Lots of bottles with crowns have good bugs.