Totally Lost

[kcmobrewer]

So, let me preface this by saying that I have read the primer, Bru'n Water's page of information, and Palmer's Water book. I am trying to get this water thing figured out and I feel very lost.

This is my water profile in ppm:
Na - 4
Ca - 4
Mg - 0
Hardness as CaCO3 - 10
SO4 2
Cl - 4
HCO3 - 14
Alkalinity as CaCo3 - 11
pH - 7.6

I am brewing a dry-ish stout (fg 1.016 or so). So I started in Bersmith figuring I would aim for the Dublin water profile. So I would be aiming for:

Ca 115
Mg 4
Na 12
SO4 55
Cl 19
HCO3 200

I just had beersmith calculate my salt additions because I do not have total confidence in that area yet but I want to get into this and try it out. I normally fill my HLT to 7 gallons for strike water and 7 gallons again for sparging. Just so I have more than enough water.So for 7 gallons of water this is what beersmith came up with: CaSO4 0.9g MgSO4 2.2g CaCl 0.7g NaHCO3 1.3g CaCO3 6.5g.

So here are my questions:

6.5g of chalk seems like a lot, and in the texts I read I got the impression that wouldn't even dissolve in water. Is that true?

My line of thinking of when to add the salts was in the strike and sparge water, figuring all the mineral content would transfer over and it would be good for the mash. Is that correct?

I put my recipe in Brewer's Friend to calculate the mash pH and determine my acid addition to achieve the correct mash pH, it predicted a mash ph of 5.59, I think this is good for a stout. Does anyone have experience with this calculator and its accuracy?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[Yooper]

You have great water for brewing! I have water envy- I had to buy an RO system to have such nice water.

As far as your stout, first ditch the chalk and never use it in your beer. It doesn't dissolve properly. If you need to add alkalinity to get a proper mash pH, use baking soda or pickling lime.

Beersmith is not good at calculating additions, so use a brewing spreadsheet like bru'nwater, or the one in brewer's friend, and instead of shooting for an impossible "profile", aim for a mash pH of 5.4 or so. Brewer's Friend has been very accurate in predicting mash pH for me.

 

[ajdelange]

You have water that good at Fort Mead? I never knew.

You are starting out, have read all this material, got entangled with a couple of spreadsheets and are confused. No surprise there. You need to start KISS. Just put a half tsp of gypsum and a half tsp of calcium chloride in your tap water and you will be fine. Some people will tell you you need alkali (that why the chalk, and that is an absurd amount) is in the recipe from beersmith. You don't for dry stout.

It is not necessary to match a profile to make a good beer and trying to follow one is only going to lead you further into confusion at this point in your career.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Thanks! Yeah I got really lucky with my water it seems.

Thanks for the tips, will definitely ditch the chalk.

I know sulfates are good for IPAs, what's good to aim for in stouts?

Chloride I think is good for maltiness and body, correct? Something like 50-75ppm?

Judging by your tips I should use just regular water for strike and sparge except for what is needed to adjust ph and ra. Then add things like CaCl to the bk. Is that right?


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[icebob]

double post

 

[icebob]

You have water that good at Fort Mead? I never knew.

You are starting out, have read all this material, got entangled with a couple of spreadsheets and are confused. No surprise there. You need to start KISS. Just put a half tsp of gypsum and a half tsp of calcium chloride in your tap water and you will be fine. Some people will tell you you need alkali (that why the chalk, and that is an absurd amount) is in the recipe from beersmith. You don't for dry stout.

It is not necessary to match a profile to make a good beer and trying to follow one is only going to lead you further into confusion at this point in your career.

Bien dit!

 

[kcmobrewer]

Yeah I was a little surprised by what Ward Labs sent me. I almost didn't believe it. Our water on base has it's own treatment plant. It's very good tasting water.


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[kcmobrewer]

What kinds of pH meters do you guys use? Also, do you bother with acidifying sparge water?

 

[Hermit]

You basically have water close to RO so the primer should work for you. What AJ is recommending is a balance of chloride/sulfate. Personally, I push all my beers to the malt side but that is my personal preference.

You just really need to push the chloride and/or sulfate up to to a meaningful level. This also has the benefit of raising calcium if you use calcium chloride and gypsum. Then worry about the mash pH. Really it need not be any more complicated than that to start.

Meter choice is a little tricker and depends on budget. 'Acceptable' appears to have come down to the $100 range. I use the MW102. Not the greatest meter but seems to work well enough once you get used to it. Mash pH at room temperature should generally be around 5.4 to 5.6. That said, there is a difference between 5.4 and 5.6. If you want to be able to reliably use that to your advantage then that will factor into your meter purchase. The debate right now is how good is good enough. At minimum you want a meter that you can shoot for 5.5 for all beers and feel confident you get in that 5.4/5.6 window. To be perfectly honest though, we really have no consensus on the less expensive meters right now and it may be able to reliably get good information.

 

[ajdelange]

I know sulfates are good for IPAs, what's good to aim for in stouts?

My standard advice is to start with it low or 0 and then comparatively taste the beer as is and with some gypsum added in the glass. Hot hops are characteristic of some stouts but not of others and you'll have to decide which you like better.

Chloride I think is good for maltiness and body, correct? Something like 50-75ppm?

Yes, it improves body and rounds the beer. Maltiness is obtained by using more malt.

Judging by your tips I should use just regular water for strike and sparge except for what is needed to adjust ph and ra.

You would use water that has been treated with some calcium chloride ( 1 tsp per 5 gal is more than enough) for strike and sparge. RA is something you should forget about for now.

Then add things like CaCl to the bk.

You could add the calcium chloride to the kettle if you were afraid of the pH lowering effects of calcium in the mash but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[ajdelange]

What kinds of pH meters do you guys use? Also, do you bother with acidifying sparge water?

I personally use Hach meters. The Milwaukee 102 seems OK too.

With the water you have it would take so little acid to get it to pH 6 that there is no need to do this.

 

[kcmobrewer]

Wow thanks for all the great tips. Definitely gonna forget about ra for now.

I was looking at one of those Hanna meters that theelectricbrewery.com recommends. I think I may look at the Milwaukee one now.

The meters with ATC, the reading you get is a mash temp reading right? Not a corrected reading for room temp?


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[ajdelange]

All ATC does is insure that the displayed pH is correct at whatever temperature you measure it. All modern meters have it. You should measure at room temperature even though your meter is ATC equipped. Electrode life will be extended and all measurements you see here and elsewhere are room temperature measurements.

There is a sticky here on pH meter calibration which discusses ATC

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[kcmobrewer]

Awesome, thank you for all your helpful information and tips!


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