to stir or not to stir

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Hose

Hose

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After adding the beer to the priming sugar solution (in the bottling bucket) do you stir? Thanks.
 
Hose said:
After adding the beer to the priming sugar solution (in the bottling bucket) do you stir? Thanks.
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I stir. First batch where I didn't had some unever carbonation issues. Just be gentle and there is no harm, and it allows you to be confident that the sugar soln (which is denser than your fermented beer) is fully mixed.
 
you don't need to as long as you add the beer to the priming solution, and not the other way around. the racking stirs it up plenty.
 
turtle said:
you don't need to as long as you add the beer to the priming solution, and not the other way around. the racking stirs it up plenty.
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I would disagree, it stirs it, but stirs it up plenty? Not in my experience. For an example think about how hard it is to get an even mix of wort and top off water. Racking on top of your priming syrup will mix it, but not evenly. If you want it evenly mixed you have to stir. Don't fear the Oxygen boogie man. If you stir gently it will not harm your beer a bit.
 
This is my second batch and I did notice some uneven carbonation in the first. I'll give it a gentle stir. Thanks all.
 
turtle said:
you don't need to as long as you add the beer to the priming solution, and not the other way around. the racking stirs it up plenty.
Click to expand...

This is what I do. No need to stir. Put the priming liquid in the bottling bucket, put the end of the syphon in the priming liquid, and when it syphons it creates a whirlpool and stirs everything. A spoon doesnt need to be brought into this.
 
Most people use the no-stir method with no problems. A few claim to consistently have uneven carbonation issues with that. I don't know that anyone has figured out the discrepancy...
 
Sacreddog717 said:
I have never stirred and always have even carbonation, but I also don't see any harm as long as you are careful.
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Me too. I just rack, and put the tubing in a circle on the bottom, and it mixes just fine. But if you are very careful to very gently stir, maybe it wouldn't increase the risk of oxidation.
 
When I siphon the beer on top of the priming sugar, I make sure the siphon tube is perpendicular to the bucket, producing a swirling spinning of the wort and priming solution. That seems to produce adequate mixing. So far, no problems with carbonation.

NRS
 
turtle said:
you don't need to as long as you add the beer to the priming solution, and not the other way around. the racking stirs it up plenty.
Click to expand...

i disagree. when i used to not stir, i bottles 3/4 of my batch and then took a gravity reading and it was way higher at the bottom of the bucket. making for inconsistant carbination
 
turtle said:
you don't need to as long as you add the beer to the priming solution, and not the other way around. the racking stirs it up plenty.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree, from personal experience. My first few batches I always did this because it was recommended to me by others and there was a definite inconsistency between bottles. Took me a few batches to realize, but it was because I wasn't stirring. Now I always stir, slowly and carefully :)
 
 
I stir, just not vigorously, I don't worry about oxidation and use white table sugar in a cup of boiling water then cooled.
 
thezepster said:
This is what I do. No need to stir. Put the priming liquid in the bottling bucket, put the end of the syphon in the priming liquid, and when it syphons it creates a whirlpool and stirs everything. A spoon doesnt need to be brought into this.
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Righty-o.
 
I always have let the bottling bucket get 2 inches or so of beer into it and then gently pour in the priming solution and so far so good. I don't know why I started to do that, but I think I was just afraid that maybe the sugar water would stick at the bottom if I poured it in first. In my mind I'm trying to get it suspended though it's probably just a crazy notion. Now I've probably jinxed it, haha.
 
I boil my sugar in 2 cups of water, put in bucket, siphon beer with hose against the side of the bucket so that I get a good mixing swirl and I've never had problems with uneven carbonation. I'd guess a bottle with less carbonation than others might have something to do with a poor seal on the cap than anything else.
 
turtle said:
perhaps the inconsistency is coming from the priming medium used. I dissolve the priming sugar in a small amount of liquid before racking onto it, are the 2 or 3 of you that reported always having to stir dissolving, or simply dumping the powder form of priming sugar?
Click to expand...

Boiled and cooled in ~ 1pt of water, added to bucket and racked on top of.

I had inconsistent carbonation until I started stirring. Some bottles would be nearly flat, others overcarbed. When I started stirring, the problem went away.

Why is this so hard for you to believe?

rancidcrabtree said:
I'd guess a bottle with less carbonation than others might have something to do with a poor seal on the cap than anything else.
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Italian benchtop capper. No problem with the seal on my caps.

BTW, been stirring for over 3.5 years (probably ~ 50 all-grain batches) now and not one oxidized bottle.
 
RCCOLA said:
Why is this so hard for you to believe?
Click to expand...

I believe it. But I think the reason people resist so much is that nobody's been able to identify what makes the difference. Clearly, some people simply rack on top of the sugar and have been doing so for years and years and years and have never had a problem. And just as clearly, at least a handful of people have had consistent problems doing it that way, which went away as soon as they started stirring.

I do not believe it is "magic", there must be some factor that is different, whether it's process, ingredients, equipment, or hell maybe even something esoteric like water chemistry or elevation or ambient temperature at bottling time or what have you.

I work as a software engineer on the controllers for high speed printers. A few years ago, I was working on uncovering some weird timing bug -- things that are timing related can happen randomly, or can sometimes be triggered by just weird unrelated things because it changes the timing of something else. There was a tech who could reproduce the bug every 20-30 minutes or so. I carefully watched exactly what he did, and then tried to replicate it exactly, even stupid apparently irrelevant stuff like opening and closing the paper tray at a particular time. I tried for hours and hours to reproduce the bug with no luck. We called the tech back in, and he made it happen in 5 minutes. I had him watch my process, and he couldn't spot any differences either. And yet, even when I tried again, no luck.

Nothing magical was going on here, clearly there was just something subtle he was doing differently that neither of us could spot. I eventually narrowed down the bug -- unfortunately it didn't shed any light on this mystery, since like I said it was just some timing issue; it could have been triggered by anything.

I gotta believe something similar is going on here, since different people are reporting such consistent (and yet divergent) results. It's a mystery as to what is going on though... all the usual bases have been covered, and yet still a handful of people report bad carbonation if they don't stir. Go figure.
 
jsweet said:
there must be some factor that is different, whether it's process, ingredients, equipment.
Click to expand...

The thing most different in my racking technique than other's is that I have spigots on my fermenters. I dont need a hose at all, and rack straight down into the bucket with a straight racking tube connected with a 2 inch piece of hose. So, no X-tra swirling action.

Also, my racking tube is 1/4". I once used my buddy's 1/2" racking cane and there was a huge difference in the speed of the flow. I saw no need to stir that batch.
 
I started out letting the whirlpool mix cooled priming solution with the wort but had some batches with inconsistent carbonation so decided to stir. Haven't had a problem since.
 
Same as Bithead. The whirlpooling seemed to give varied carbing so I just use a very gentle stir to move the sugar around.
 
RCCOLA said:
Boiled and cooled in ~ 1pt of water, added to bucket and racked on top of.

I had inconsistent carbonation until I started stirring. Some bottles would be nearly flat, others overcarbed. When I started stirring, the problem went away.

Why is this so hard for you to believe?



Italian benchtop capper. No problem with the seal on my caps.

BTW, been stirring for over 3.5 years (probably ~ 50 all-grain batches) now and not one oxidized bottle.
Click to expand...

Ditto. Trust me, it was ALWAYS inconsitent until I started stirring. It's not a capping issue either because the beers are great now and I use the same capper with the same bottles.
 
Maybe the problem is that all the people who claim consistency without stirring are actually mistaken and their beers aren't carbonated evenly...
How do ya like them apples??? :drunk:


Also, "a handful?" Looks like it's almost split down the middle so far to me...
 
rancidcrabtree said:
I boil my sugar in 2 cups of water, put in bucket, siphon beer with hose against the side of the bucket so that I get a good mixing swirl and I've never had problems with uneven carbonation. I'd guess a bottle with less carbonation than others might have something to do with a poor seal on the cap than anything else.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with the caps, it's simple physics. You have 2 soln, one much denser. A gentle swirling from racking is not enough kinetic energy to give you a homogenous mixture and you will have a density gradient to some degree. For some this isn't enough to detect by the degree of carbonation in their bottles, for others (myself included) it is. But if you want to get closer to an even mixture you will need to stir.
 
I'm a stirrer.

I wasn't for my first 3 batches, and 2 of them were evenly carbonated (at least I think, they were my first 2 so I could have just not noticed). But my 3rd batch I had 1 bomb, several gushers, and several completely flat bottles. Since then I have always given it a gentle couple of stirs to get it spinning, put the top on, go outside and have a cigarette, come back in and bottle.

I haven't had any problems since I started stirring, and I read somewhere on here that sounded reputable, that oxidation is an overstated thing in the homebrew world. The thread was saying that you would basically have to try to oxidate your beer in order to do it. Regular processes such as transferring your beer and moving it and bottling it don't introduce anywhere near enough oxygen to make any effect. I could only assume a gentle swirl would be alright.

But then again what do I know. If just siphoning works for you I see it as one less step and you don't have to sanitize a spoon
 
Last year I made Denny's Bourbon Vanilla Porter where I added straight Bourbon to the beer at bottling time and then primed and bottled 2-1/2 gals.....After 5 months and tasting several bottles I noticed some were perfect and others had a distinct alcohol burn and different pop when opened...I did not stir the beer after adding this and the priming sugars. This January I repeated the batch only this time I stirred and the beer has an even homogenous mix and consistent flavor profile...Lessen learned
 
I think I best summed it up just now when I said stir (gently) if you've had uneven carbonation issues in the past (without stirring of course) and, if you have not had this issue (which has been my experience--never stirred), then don't stir. :mug:

Like the Isley bros. said, "It's your thing, do what you want to do."
 
I wonder if there is something to the "those who don't stir and say they don't have problems just don't notice the uneven carbonation." Certainly that can't be all of it, because some people have claimed bottle bombs if they don't stir, and uh, I'm pretty sure nobody's going to fail to notice a bottle bomb. And people as experienced as Yooper and Revvy do no-stir... but I could imagine if some people are really persnickety about getting exactly the same level of carbonation per bottle, maybe they notice it more?

I also now wonder how much siphon tube size matters. I also have a small siphon (1/4"), but I do the whirpool thing and so far haven't had a problem. We shall see...
 
With me it wasn't a question of maybe this bottle was a wee bit less carbonated then the other, it was more like holy $hit this bottle has near zero carb and the other was way over carbed.
 
I did the following:
Added the boiled sugar water to my clean, CO2 purged keg
Racked my beer into the keg
Purged air out with CO2 a few times
Pressurized to 20PSI and mixed by shaking
Hooked up my out tap to the bottle filler
Released extra pressure and set keg to 2psi for bottling.

I felt there was less O2 contact with this method; but I wish I had a setup to allow me to purge the bottles first.
 
I made it through about 12 batches without stirring with no problems in distributed carbonation. Then I had one that had 1 case of explode 10oz of the 12oz of beer in your face when you open and 1 case of flat crap. Since then a gentle stir has become my standard, just for that 1 in 12 that it might happen again.
 

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