To stabilise or not, that is the question.

[sheffield_homebrewer]

Hi everyone,

I am new to wine making and currently pressing ahead with a blackberry wine recipe that I found in a book. The wine is currently bubbling away in the demijohn and the recipe says that it will take about a month before it is ready to rack.

What I want to know is, should I buy some Campden Tablets and Stabiliser to use on the wine before I rack? The book makes no mention of these, but I have found articles that give the impression that the process is important. I have also read that the chemicals can impart a 'taste' to the wine that gets stronger with age.

Is it always important to 'stabilise' the wine before bottling? Experiences/opinions either way would be helpful.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Chris,
Hi! Welcome to wine making!
First off, you need to get a hydrometer, wine doesn't know time, so the recipe that says it will take a month before you need to rack is a little deceiving, although yes, it will need to be racked, but if you take a starting gravity reading and another in a week or two, it's possible that you might need to rack much sooner, can you share the recipe?

Once you rack the wine, you'll want to stabilize with potassium metabisulfite, this can be in the form of campden tablets, or in powder form, this is usually referred to as "Meta", personally, I prefer the powder form, but it is really a matter of preference, both work great.
Potassium metabisulfite is used to prevent spoilage and further fermentation by removing oxygen, by removing the oxygen it chokes off micro-organisms and will prevent them from reproducing. It will not stop a fermentation.

The only reason to add Potassium Sorbate, also known as "Sorbate" is if you plan on back sweetening the wine when fermentation has completed, it does not stop fermentation, but is used to keep wines from starting to ferment again after the fermentation has been completed, it does this by rendering micro-organisms unable to reproduce.
Sorbate should never be used on a wine that has gone through Malolactic Fermentation, it has a negative reaction with lactic acid bacteria, it can produce strong geranium odors which I'm sure that most people would try to avoid.

Normally, once the wine ferments to dry, 0.990, you should rack to a another carboy or demijohn and at this time add the appropriate amount of meta or campden tablets. I usually won't add anymore for several months during the aging process, if you keep the wine topped off and sealed with a stopper and airlock you should be fine for 4-6 months.

As far as any off flavors left in the wine, don't sample the wine right after adding meta, it needs a little time to to bond with the oxygen, and Sorbate, over time breaks down into ethyl sorbate which can add notes of pineapple or celery to your wine, some wine makers say that it leaves a bubble gum like taste in the wine, either way, none of these are good.

I hope that this helps, feel free to ask more questions.

 

[siletzspey]

I started doing raspberry, strawberry and plum wine in 2012 without any k-meta during rackings or at bottle-up. By 2014, the remaining bottles started to get funky, and by 2015, they were severely spoiled (oxidized). I use flip-top glass bottles with < 1/4" head-space.

Based on forum feedback, I started adding k-meta at bottle-up in 2014, and I'm anxious to see if the 2014 batch will stay good for 3+ years. I did adjust the k-meta dose downward based on acid level, so I was only dosing at 1/3rd - 1/2 normal.

As of this year, I started adding k-meta at each racking, and this has been the most trouble-free season when it comes to minor infection flare-ups, and I've noticed no impact on fermentation activity.

Others could/should comment if k-meta adds any off smells and flavors at serving time. I'm led to believe decanting will quickly remove any remaining SO2 at serving time.

--SiletzSpey

 

[MichaelCfffg]

Chris,
............. Once you rack the wine, you'll want to stabilize with potassium metabisulfite, this can be in the form of campden tablets, or in powder form, this is usually referred to as "Meta", personally, I prefer the powder form, but it is really a matter of preference, both work great.
Potassium metabisulfite is used to prevent spoilage and further fermentation by removing oxygen, by removing the oxygen it chokes off micro-organisms and will prevent them from reproducing. It will not stop a fermentation.

The only reason to add Potassium Sorbate, also known as "Sorbate" is if you plan on back sweetening the wine when fermentation has completed, it does not stop fermentation, but is used to keep wines from starting to ferment again after the fermentation has been completed, it does this by rendering micro-organisms unable to reproduce.
Sorbate should never be used on a wine that has gone through Malolactic Fermentation, it has a negative reaction with lactic acid bacteria, it can produce strong geranium odors which I'm sure that most people would try to avoid.

Normally, once the wine ferments to dry, 0.990, you should rack to a another carboy or demijohn and at this time add the appropriate amount of meta or campden tablets. I usually won't add anymore for several months during the aging process, if you keep the wine topped off and sealed with a stopper and airlock you should be fine for 4-6 months.

As far as any off flavors left in the wine, don't sample the wine right after adding meta, it needs a little time to to bond with the oxygen, and Sorbate, over time breaks down into ethyl sorbate which can add notes of pineapple or celery to your wine, some wine makers say that it leaves a bubble gum like taste in the wine, either way, none of these are good.

I hope that this helps, feel free to ask more questions.

Another newby here! I've got 5 gal. of Elderberry wine that has been done for several months now, and is very dry. I racked it to another carboy a long time back, but didn't add anything to it at the time. I drew a bottle off for Thanksgiving, and it tastes alright, but is too dry.

I need to bottle it, and I'd like to sweeten it up a bit, but am not sure just how to proceed. It sounds like I should rack it again to add stabilizers, sweetener, etc. Do I add both Camden and sorbate since I want to sweeten it? What should I use for sweetener? You say it should sit awhile again after adding meta, but for how long? If I add sorbate you say it will go bad over time, but how long before it does that? I seriously want to avoid risking any bad flavors with this.

Thanks a lot for your help. It is very much appreciated.

 

[Yooper]

Another newby here! I've got 5 gal. of Elderberry wine that has been done for several months now, and is very dry. I racked it to another carboy a long time back, but didn't add anything to it at the time. I drew a bottle off for Thanksgiving, and it tastes alright, but is too dry.

I need to bottle it, and I'd like to sweeten it up a bit, but am not sure just how to proceed. It sounds like I should rack it again to add stabilizers, sweetener, etc. Do I add both Camden and sorbate since I want to sweeten it? What should I use for sweetener? You say it should sit awhile again after adding meta, but for how long? If I add sorbate you say it will go bad over time, but how long before it does that? I seriously want to avoid risking any bad flavors with this.

Thanks a lot for your help. It is very much appreciated.

Yes, you will need sorbate along with the campden to inhibit yeast reproduction.

What I would do is rack into a solution of 1/2 teaspoon sorbate per gallon of wine, and 1 campden tablet per gallon, crushed and dissolved in a little water. Let that sit a few days, and then sweeten to taste. Let it sit a few more days, to ensure no fermentation recurs, and then bottle.

Sorbate doesn't "go bad". It does impart a slight taste to the wine that some folks can pick up, but others can.

You can sweeten with anything you like, but a simple syrup is generally the easiest. One tip is to pull a sample of the wine and sweeten it in several different glasses. Try 1.008, 1.012, etc, and see what you like best. Then sweeten the whole batch to just under the one you like the best- it tends to get a bit sweeter tasting in the bottle.

That's about it- it's really easy and straightforward to do.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Great Advice Yooper!

 

[MichaelCfffg]

You can sweeten with anything you like, but a simple syrup is generally the easiest. One tip is to pull a sample of the wine and sweeten it in several different glasses. Try 1.008, 1.012, etc, and see what you like best. Then sweeten the whole batch to just under the one you like the best- it tends to get a bit sweeter tasting in the bottle.

That's about it- it's really easy and straightforward to do.

Thanks Yooper! I does sounds pretty easy the way you've explained it.

Just a couple more questions. By simple syrup, are you talking about something like Karo Light Corn Syrup? If so, would there be any harm in using Karo Lite Corn Syrup (33% less calories)?

Also, I've already pulled a bottle off of this carboy, leaving a pretty good air space. Now you're talking about letting it settle a few more days after adding the Camden and sorbate, and then another few days after sweetening. I'm afraid of too much exposure to oxygen with this delay. Short of adding a bunch of water, is there anything else I can do to keep this batch separated from oxygen exposure until I bottle it?

Thank you so much for your advice and expertise.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks Yooper! I does sounds pretty easy the way you've explained it.

Just a couple more questions. By simple syrup, are you talking about something like Karo Light Corn Syrup? If so, would there be any harm in using Karo Lite Corn Syrup (33% less calories)?

Also, I've already pulled a bottle off of this carboy, leaving a pretty good air space. Now you're talking about letting it settle a few more days after adding the Camden and sorbate, and then another few days after sweetening. I'm afraid of too much exposure to oxygen with this delay. Short of adding a bunch of water, is there anything else I can do to keep this batch separated from oxygen exposure until I bottle it?

Thank you so much for your advice and expertise.

No, not Karo (yuck). I meant a simple syrup in the cooking sense- water and sugar.

You can also use honey or something if you'd rather.

Campden (sulfite) is an antioxidant and it'll be ok for a couple of days before you add your sweetener.

 

[MichaelCfffg]

Hi Yooper! I just wanted to say another quick thanks for all your help. That bottle I had pulled off of my 5 gal. had never gotten drunk (too many other bottles of wine available on Thanksgiving I guess), so we experimented with that. The ladies liked it with just 3 1/2 tsp of sugar dissolved in the wine from that bottle, which only gave it a hydrometer reading of .995. That still pretty dry, but I guess that's the target for when I sweeten the whole batch later.

The main batch still tastes like wine, so my not stabilizing it when I last racked it about 10 months ago has apparently not screwed it up. I racked it today to another carboy with the Camden and sorbate dissolved in a cup of water, and plan to barely sweeten it to that .995 hydrometer reading after about a week.

Any guidance on further aging, when to bottle, further aging in the bottle, etc. would be most welcome. When I get past this one, we're going to try a peach wine next. I've already got the can of fruit base ready to go.

Thanks again!

 

[sheffield_homebrewer]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys - really appreciate it!

Chris

 

[DoctorCAD]

One thing to keep in mind, someone mentioned that sorbate doesn't go bad...I have a very purple and sticky section of floor that will disagree. It may not go "bad" but it does lose potency.

OSS, old sorbate syndrome.