To freeze or not to freeze (grains)...?

[Gravity]

Hi

I bought in bulk again and after my last weevil infestation (see previous post) you guys recommend to freeze the grains to kill all would be insects

Well, it just so happens my chest freezer is free and big enough to fit a bunch of sacks

A couple of questions come to mind that aren’t really answered in similar posts- or perhaps I missed them

Briess doesn’t not recommended freezing grains(taking them through freeze cycles) freezing and unfreezing), however, there’s a lot of contradicting info on freezing grains.

To be clear, I only want to freeze them to kill insects and not for long term storage. I figure, per similar posts, that 5 days ought to do it and at what temperature?

Right now I have it set for -10c (about 14f)

My questions/concerns are : can I freeze unmilled grains for like 4-5 days, then take them out of the freezer, and then into buckets or the sort without the fear of them somehow going bad- moisture might take hold once stored in a container after be thawed

Would the sacks themselves be fine to simply put in the freezer or should I put a plastic bag over them?

Then, lastly, if the initial freeze where to kill the insects, i’m assuming they’re still at risk and may need to be refrozen down the line to kill anything that may pop up

Thoughts?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Sucks you have to tackle this, maybe look at some air tight plastic storage bins like the vittles vault to prevent another infestation.

Preventing moisture from condensing in the thawing grains is going to be a challenge, luckily grain bags have a plastic lining which should help. I'd load up the freezer and avoid opening the lid at all costs during the feeeze-thaw cycle to limit how much atmospheric moisture reaches the grain. Add moisture absorbers to the freezer when you put the grain in there, and after the freezing period slowly bring the grain up to room temp inside the freezer without opening the lid. Do you have a programmable temp controller? Inkbird makes a nice one, that would allow you to creep the temp up 5-10 degrees per day, allowing it to thaw without picking up water from the air. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

When I rip a bag of grain I throw it in the freezer and take it out and run it through my mill ice cold but I also crush very fine I am not worried about the hulls (not sure if the temps would matter to the hulls). This seems to have no impact on my brewing the 2 times it I used frozen grain

 

[Gravity]

Sucks you have to tackle this, maybe look at some air tight plastic storage bins like the vittles vault to prevent another infestation.

Preventing moisture from condensing in the thawing grains is going to be a challenge, luckily grain bags have a plastic lining which should help. I'd load up the freezer and avoid opening the lid at all costs during the feeeze-thaw cycle to limit how much atmospheric moisture reaches the grain. Add moisture absorbers to the freezer when you put the grain in there, and after the freezing period slowly bring the grain up to room temp inside the freezer without opening the lid. Do you have a programmable temp controller? Inkbird makes a nice one, that would allow you to creep the temp up 5-10 degrees per day, allowing it to thaw without picking up water from the air. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

I do have a programable theromast, however, 5-10 degrees per day till room temp sounds like a pain when you have the hankering for some brewing

I’m scouting a couple of container now

From what I understand the moisture would only matter if the grain were crushed, mine is whole husk - this is where things get dicey for me; Some people say yay, others nay

In practice I see myself taking them out of the bag and grinding them immediately after taking them out of the freezer

I have a lot of sacks and would hate to lose more inventory and $$$$- it adds up

 

[Gravity]

When I rip a bag of grain I throw it in the freezer and take it out and run it through my mill ice cold but I also crush very fine I am not worried about the hulls (not sure if the temps would matter to the hulls). This seems to have no impact on my brewing the 2 times it I used frozen grain

It sounds like you long term store yours in the freezer, I’m not trying to do that as it will become my fermentation chamber again

After taking the amount to be milked our, do you put the rest back in the freezer?

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

It sounds like you long term store yours in the freezer, I’m not trying to do that as it will become my fermentation chamber again

After taking the amount to be milked our, do you put the rest back in the freezer?

Nagh they only go in the freezer if I rip the bag I let them hang out there until I brew. I always used the whole bag to brew when this happened they were 5 lb bags

 

[Gravity]

Well- put all my base malt in my chest freezer: pale ale, wheat, Pilsen, Vienna, left all the specialty grain i the coolest room; I’ll probqbly cycle
These out with the frozen ones later on

I’m going away for the weekend (about 3 days), and will take them out when I get back

I noticed the temperature increases almost instantly, hopefully it will come back down

Some bags had an extra layer of packaging- like another malt bag - and others i took out of the extra packaging and put them inside with their original bag

I’m going to brew up a storm when I get back


Hopefully it all goes well- it’s my first time freezing grain

 

[Staticsouls]

I was concerned about moisture freezing and thawing the grains so I opted to put them into a sealed bucket before freezing to limit any moisture pick up from the freezer itself. After freezing them for a few days I pull the buckets and store like normal.

 

[Gravity]

I was concerned about moisture freezing and thawing the grains so I opted to put them into a sealed bucket before freezing to limit any moisture pick up from the freezer itself. After freezing them for a few days I pull the buckets and store like normal.

Pulled the sacks yesteday , the freezer did a really nice job - I didn't' notice any moisture etc.

I'm putting the grains in air-tight containers, adding a couple of packets of desiccants, and flushing the containers with C02.

Heres a couple of questions, which grains take priority?
Which grains should i do this too?

In other words weevils like the lighter stuff (Pale Ale, Pilsner, Wheat) and tend to ignore the darker stuff like Carafa (at least from what i've noticed)

I have:
Wheat (stored as above)
Pale Ale (stored as above)
Pilser (stored as above)
Vienna (stored as above)
Carahell (stored as above)
Carapils Stored as above
Munich ?
Caramunich?
Rye?
Carafa?
Caraaroma?

I reckon I can do all ; pain in the butt though

 

[Soulshine2]

Hi

I bought in bulk again and after my last weevil infestation (see previous post) you guys recommend to freeze the grains to kill all would be insects

Well, it just so happens my chest freezer is free and big enough to fit a bunch of sacks

A couple of questions come to mind that aren’t really answered in similar posts- or perhaps I missed them

Briess doesn’t not recommended freezing grains(taking them through freeze cycles) freezing and unfreezing), however, there’s a lot of contradicting info on freezing grains.

To be clear, I only want to freeze them to kill insects and not for long term storage. I figure, per similar posts, that 5 days ought to do it and at what temperature?

Right now I have it set for -10c (about 14f)

My questions/concerns are : can I freeze unmilled grains for like 4-5 days, then take them out of the freezer, and then into buckets or the sort without the fear of them somehow going bad- moisture might take hold once stored in a container after be thawed

Would the sacks themselves be fine to simply put in the freezer or should I put a plastic bag over them?

Then, lastly, if the initial freeze where to kill the insects, i’m assuming they’re still at risk and may need to be refrozen down the line to kill anything that may pop up

Thoughts?

I'll answer this like I answered your other post.
Since we can not extract 100% moisture out of the grain (just like cased tobacco leaf), theres still some there .in what % I dont know. A one time freeze long enough to kill bugs should be ok , just dont re-freeze it more than once. Like, once frozen ,either leave it frozen or take out what you need and leave the rest there. Once it thaws ,you will see the bags moisture content on the inside of the bag,condensed and frozen . Once it thaws out and at room temp , you could get mold.

 

[mongoose33]

When I rip a bag of grain I throw it in the freezer and take it out and run it through my mill ice cold but I also crush very fine I am not worried about the hulls (not sure if the temps would matter to the hulls). This seems to have no impact on my brewing the 2 times it I used frozen grain

I am not a believer that freezing grain kills the eggs and such. Live insects, sure, but not the eggs.

However, storing grain under cold/freezing conditions will prevent the eggs from hatching, if there are any, and as @OG-wan Kenobi does, just crush right out of that (or thaw first if you want).

 

[Soulshine2]

I am not a believer that freezing grain kills the eggs and such. Live insects, sure, but not the eggs.

However, storing grain under cold/freezing conditions will prevent the eggs from hatching, if there are any, and as @OG-wan Kenobi does, just crush right out of that (or thaw first if you want).

freezing can in fact cause the eggs of certain insects to crack (expansion of moisture as it goes from a liquid to a solid) and therefore kills the egg. I know tobacco beetles are killed off this way... grain bugs, Idk,but its worth a shot

 

[Gravity]

Meanwhile....

 

[Gravity]

#not sure how to delete double posts

 

[grampamark]

Non farmers, who make up about 90% of the population, have a great many misconceptions about agricultural produce. That's not surprising; unless one is exceptionally curious about how the world works, and wants to learn as much as possible about as many things as possible, there's no reason to delve into the unknown.

I'm a grain farmer. Our farm is along the Canadian border in an area with a sub-Arctic climate. Grain stored over the winter here is going to freeze. It may go through several freeze-thaw cycles, depending on how long it's in storage. Our grain storage bins are equipped with large fans which can circulate ambient air through the stored grain. We normally operate the fans at various times when grain is stored to minimize the difference between the temp of the grain and the ambient temp. This minimizes the chances of moisture in the grain condensing, which can create "hot spots" in the grain if the temp is warm enough to allow the wetter grain to germinate. If this happens, spontaneous fermentation can occur, whch is not a good thing. (Parenthetically, this is the process which led to the discovery of fermented beverages by early civilizations many millennia ago.)

Malted grain has already been germinated. It has also been dried to less than 5% (often as low as 2%) moisture, by weight. There's nothing there to freeze, unless there are bugs, or viable eggs, present. That's the best reason to freeze your malt, to get rid of insects. But, if you have room, and want to keep it in the freezer long term, go ahead. It won't hurt anything.

 

[Gravity]

Non farmers, who make up about 90% of the population, have a great many misconceptions about agricultural produce. That's not surprising; unless one is exceptionally curious about how the world works, and wants to learn as much as possible about as many things as possible, there's no reason to delve into the unknown.

I'm a grain farmer. Our farm is along the Canadian border in an area with a sub-Arctic climate. Grain stored over the winter here is going to freeze. It may go through several freeze-thaw cycles, depending on how long it's in storage. Our grain storage bins are equipped with large fans which can circulate ambient air through the stored grain. We normally operate the fans at various times when grain is stored to minimize the difference between the temp of the grain and the ambient temp. This minimizes the chances of moisture in the grain condensing, which can create "hot spots" in the grain if the temp is warm enough to allow the wetter grain to germinate. If this happens, spontaneous fermentation can occur, whch is not a good thing. (Parenthetically, this is the process which led to the discovery of fermented beverages by early civilizations many millennia ago.)

Malted grain has already been germinated. It has also been dried to less than 5% (often as low as 2%) moisture, by weight. There's nothing there to freeze, unless there are bugs, or viable eggs, present. That's the best reason to freeze your malt, to get rid of insects. But, if you have room, and want to keep it in the freezer long term, go ahead. It won't hurt anything.

Cool

I'm definitely the 90% - however also the type to learn for the sake of learning

I may rotate the bins in and out of freezer periodically then

From what I understood, freeze cycles aren't an issue then? - did i understand that right
Briess (on their website) says to avoid freeze cycles

I don't have large fans to circulate air, however, I imagine I can spread it out and dry it in the sun - rice farmers do this all the time; or at least something similar

Do you recommend thing for homebrewers? or at least for people with no silos and fans?

 

[grampamark]

Manufacturers publish all sorts of disclaimers as a CYA exercise, even if there is little basis for them.

(That's not Photoshop; that is an actual warning label on a small motor used to power a liquid transfer pump on our farm).

I don't recommend freezing malt, unless it's briefly, to deal with an insect issue. Freezing isn't necessary, but it also won't hurt anything.

We spill small amounts of grain in the process of handling it. It's hard to clean up every last kernel, and it's biodegradeable, so a little of it will remain for months. That grain gets wet, frozen, thawed, frozen again, peed on by animals, buried under the snow, and when the snow melts in the spring and the ground warms up, any remaining kernels germinate and start growing. The stuff was made to grow outdoors and it's almost impossible to render it completly inert.

 

[Gravity]

Manufacturers publish all sorts of disclaimers as a CYA exercise, even if there is little basis for them.

(That's not Photoshop; that is an actual warning label on a small motor used to power a liquid transfer pump on our farm).

I don't recommend freezing malt, unless it's briefly, to deal with an insect issue. Freezing isn't necessary, but it also won't hurt anything.

We spill small amounts of grain in the process of handling it. It's hard to clean up every last kernel, and it's biodegradeable, so a little of it will remain for months. That grain gets wet, frozen, thawed, frozen again, peed on by animals, buried under the snow, and when the snow melts in the spring and the ground warms up, any remaining kernels germinate and start growing. The stuff was made to grow outdoors and it's almost impossible to render it completly inert.

Lol - point taken

My previous stockpile was infested with weevils, and i dumped the whole lot. I restocked and froze these sacks to kill whats there - for about 4 days - now they're in airtight containers that I flushed with C02 and put desiccants nside the box

If I suspect that the weevils might be back (from what i hear they are near impossible to get ride of), I will cycle the boxes into the freezer temporary only to kill them again