Tips on my HIPA

[madams]

Long time listener, first time caller.

Little background. Been brewing about 6 months. I have brewed 4 batches so far, 3 extracts and 1 mini mash. Really like the mini mash right mainly because I'm striving for AG just don't have the funds to upgrade equipment. Designed my first recipe for this batch and just thought I would see what "on-paper" feedback I could get back. Doing an IPA and adding some local honey from my area.

5 gal batch
6.21 boil

6 lbs 2-row 54.5%
1 lb Honey malt 9.1%
8 oz Crystal 20 4.5%
8 oz Crystal 40 4.5%
3 lbs Pale LME 27.3% (Late addition)

Mash in 10 qts at 163.7 Step Temp 152 60 Min
Batch Sparge 2 Step (1.56 gal, 3.11 gal) at 168

.5 oz Centennial 60 min
.5 oz Citra 45 min
.5 oz Simcoe 30 min
.5 oz Centennial 15 min
.5 oz Citra 10 min
.5 oz Simcoe 5 min

Yeast: WLP001 w/ starter and stir plate

Dry hop w/ 2 oz Citra

Going to add the honey after day 3 of fermentation. The honey is where I'm having most trouble I guess. Not sure of the amount, thinking a pound or so.

Any feedback would be great! Thanks everyone! CHEERS

 

[JimRausch]

As you seem to know, if you add the honey during the boil, you'll lose the flavor/aroma components. So, yes adding it after 3-4 days into the fermentation is a good idea if you want to retain some. And 1 lb is right, in my opinion. 1lb. of honey in a 5G batch will give you about 8 additional gravity points.

 

[madams]

As you seem to know, if you add the honey during the boil, you'll lose the flavor/aroma components. So, yes adding it after 3-4 days into the fermentation is a good idea if you want to retain some. And 1 lb is right, in my opinion. 1lb. of honey in a 5G batch will give you about 8 additional gravity points.

Thanks for reaffirming my original thoughts. Does the grain bill look ok? Wasn't sure if I need any carapallis since I was using some extract.

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[Rivenin]

thats already 9% crystal malt with whatever is in the LME as well, so i wouldn't worry at all about more caramel malts, you may actually wanna back it down a bit as well considering you have honey malt... that alone is a sweet malt too.
so you're at about 18% sweetening malts. i'd be cautious on that if i was you, i'd honestly cut out one of the crystal malts and tone down the honey malt a bit.
thats all my opinion of course

 

[madams]

thats already 9% crystal malt with whatever is in the LME as well, so i wouldn't worry at all about more caramel malts, you may actually wanna back it down a bit as well considering you have honey malt... that alone is a sweet malt too.
so you're at about 18% sweetening malts. i'd be cautious on that if i was you, i'd honestly cut out one of the crystal malts and tone down the honey malt a bit.
thats all my opinion of course

Thanks a lot. What about hop timing. Been reading some things about types and timing. Played with the times a little and still might. Think any should be sooner or you have anything you look for that helps you decide. Always looking to learn something new. That's why we do this right? Well and for the beer lol

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[Rivenin]

well with this
----------------------------------------
.5 oz Centennial 60 min
.5 oz Citra 45 min
.5 oz Simcoe 30 min
.5 oz Centennial 15 min
.5 oz Citra 10 min
.5 oz Simcoe 5 min
----------------------------------------

with the 45 minute citra, you're losing all of the awesome aroma and flavor that it has and just adding mainly bitterness while adding maybe some flavor if any. same with the 30, while that'll add more, it'll stll just kind of take out the aroma of the awesome hop combo.
if you have no other hops, i'd go for like...

Centennial FWH
1oz simcoe at 15
1oz citra at 5 or 1oz at flameout and let them steep for like 20 minutes? it'll add a bit of bitterness, so be careful on that one. but if the centennial doesn't add the IBUs that are needed, the hop stand will help a fair bit.
if you have something like warrior, nugget or columbus, i'd bitter with those and throw the centennial in toward the end as well with the others.

Hopefully that helps a bit!

 

[madams]

well with this
----------------------------------------
.5 oz Centennial 60 min
.5 oz Citra 45 min
.5 oz Simcoe 30 min
.5 oz Centennial 15 min
.5 oz Citra 10 min
.5 oz Simcoe 5 min
----------------------------------------

with the 45 minute citra, you're losing all of the awesome aroma and flavor that it has and just adding mainly bitterness while adding maybe some flavor if any. same with the 30, while that'll add more, it'll stll just kind of take out the aroma of the awesome hop combo.
if you have no other hops, i'd go for like...

Centennial FWH
1oz simcoe at 15
1oz citra at 5 or 1oz at flameout and let them steep for like 20 minutes? it'll add a bit of bitterness, so be careful on that one. but if the centennial doesn't add the IBUs that are needed, the hop stand will help a fair bit.
if you have something like warrior, nugget or columbus, i'd bitter with those and throw the centennial in toward the end as well with the others.

Hopefully that helps a bit!

Definitely helps. I was just reading last night about the citra for sure. Was saying pretty much never put in earlier that 30 min. I think I may get home and play with some more beersnob and see what IBUs come out too. Even tho I love love love super high IBU stuff, my wife isnt much of a fan. Boy would I hate to make a beer she won't drink. *wink wink* haha

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[madams]

Well, decided to go ahead and build my mash tun because I came across a 10 gallon industrial igloo cooler for cheap so thought, why not? Now I'm contemplating doing a MM (Mainly Mash) lol as long as I can fit some more grain, why not do more grain? Add another hop addition maybe?

6.2 boil
5 batch

12 lbs 2 Row
1 lb Honey Malt
8 oz Crystal 20;
8 oz Crystal 40
3 lbs Pale Ale LME (Late addition)

17.5 qts Mash around 152. Batch Sparge.

1 oz Magnum FWH
1 oz Centennial 30 min
.5 oz Citra 15 min
1 oz Simcoe 10 min
.5 oz Citra 5 min

Dry Hop 1 oz Citra 5-7
Add lb of Honey about day 3 of fermentation

WLP001 w/ starter and stir plate

 

[Yooper]

There are some free online brewing software tools out there. I like brewersfriend.com, but there are others. At a glance, this beer looks unbalanced by a very very high OG and not enough hops.

With such a high OG, the FG will be too high as well, and with all of those caramel and honey malts, this is more of a very sweet dessert barley wine type of beer.

I'd shoot for an OG of 1.075ish (with the later honey addition calculated in) and cut out half of the honey malt. If you take out the LME then you might get there. Then, it would be an AG batch. You'd want IBUs of about 80.

 

[MrHadack]

A few months ago, a friend who raises honey bees gave me a pound of their honey and asked for an IPA. I made the mistake of trying to add a fairly good dose of Munich malt to try to compliment the honey flavors (I added the honey into the primary). It didn't work out all that well. I ended up with less of an IPA and something that had some hop character, but was mostly too sweet. And the sweetness really hid the hop flavors. Still drinkable, but not what it could have been.

This past fall I was given another pound of honey (tinged red because the bees spent most of the fall in Cape Cod's cranberry bogs) and opted to use it in a Maibock. I just bottled it and it is MUCH better. I used the honey in secondary again, but this time the malt bill was considerably different. Mostly pilsner malt with just a touch of Vienna and some caramunich for color.

So I'm with Yooper on this one. Not to second guess her, but I might even cut the honey malt back to 0.25# simply because I wouldn't want it to outshine the actual honey you're using.

 

[tagz]

I agree with the folks above that the amount of honey malt and crystal malt you are using is going to mask your hop profile. I would drop your crystal and honey malt to 1lb total. If you can get a hold of more hops I would up your late additions and dry hop. You can make a solid hop forward pale ale with 5 oz of hops but a high gravity ipa with crystal is going to need more hops... IMO.

 

[madams]

What if the original recipe was already ordered and the person ordering it had it milled and pre-mixed? Haha! What can I add to dumb down the too much honey and crystal malts? A little more 2row? Hops? Cut the extract out?

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[Rivenin]

dump it out on a big table and see if you can find the slightly darker grain.... haha, did that once when i ordered 1oz of black barley and they gave me 1lb i had chocolate malts in there too, so i think i got about 20 minutes into sorting between chocolate malt and roasted malt and gave up.
i ended up taking out half of the roasted grains for my porter and it became this weird stout.
If you have access to two row, you could mix up the stuff you ordered really well and half it, and add in the same 1/2 weight of just 2row?

 

[tagz]

If you have access to two row, you could mix up the stuff you ordered really well and half it, and add in the same 1/2 weight of just 2row?

That's a good solution. You could use a portion f the grain bill that will get you the percentage of crystal you want. Then, sub in 2 Row to ht the gravity you want. Then just use the remaining grains on your next batch. If you need some help with calculations, I'm sure we could figure it out.

 

[madams]

So ya think if I take my 8lbs mixed grain, half it and add 4 lbs of 2row it may even it out? Or at least my best shot? Think I should maybe throw some more hops in also to help with some flavor? I love to make things easy on myself haha

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[madams]

dump it out on a big table and see if you can find the slightly darker grain.... haha, did that once when i ordered 1oz of black barley and they gave me 1lb i had chocolate malts in there too, so i think i got about 20 minutes into sorting between chocolate malt and roasted malt and gave up.
i ended up taking out half of the roasted grains for my porter and it became this weird stout.
If you have access to two row, you could mix up the stuff you ordered really well and half it, and add in the same 1/2 weight of just 2row?

Would you suggest dropping the LME also and adding more 2row might help too? I finished my MLT this week so now I have my AG setup pretty much finished so going AG isnt an issue with this one.

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[madams]

Would you suggest dropping the LME also and adding more 2row might help too? I finished my MLT this week so now I have my AG setup pretty much finished so going AG isnt an issue with this one.

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That's with also splitting what I have now and adding 2row.

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[MrHadack]

Well, theoretically, if everything was already milled and mixed uniformly, removing half and adding the extra 4# of 2 Row would give you:

10# 2 Row
8oz Honey Malt
4oz crystal 40
4oz crystal 20

1# Real Honey into primary

On a 5 gallon batch that gives you 1.070 SG or thereabouts (including the late honey addition and depending on mash efficiency.) All things considered, that should be pretty good.

With your initial hop schedule you'll be up around 100 IBU or a little higher. I'd take Yooper's advice and bring that down a bit to 80. If you cut your Magnum addition to 0.5oz for the full hour that would do it.

 

[madams]

Well, theoretically, if everything was already milled and mixed uniformly, removing half and adding the extra 4# of 2 Row would give you:

10# 2 Row
8oz Honey Malt
4oz crystal 40
4oz crystal 20

1# Real Honey into primary

On a 5 gallon batch that gives you 1.070 SG or thereabouts (including the late honey addition and depending on mash efficiency.) All things considered, that should be pretty good.

With your initial hop schedule you'll be up around 100 IBU or a little higher. I'd take Yooper's advice and bring that down a bit to 80. If you cut your Magnum addition to 0.5oz for the full hour that would do it.

The recipe from my OP is what I have right now. The magnum was in my "maybe I can fix it recipe". Ha! Also only have 6lbs of 2row in OP, but i get what you are saying. If theoretically split in half will have 3lb 2row, 8 oz honey malt and 4 oz of each Crystal. I just need to get 7 lbs of 2row.
I have downloaded BeerSmith and have been playing with it. I'm thinking I take my LME and make this full AG instead of a PM.

13 lbs 2row
8 oz Honey Malt
4 oz Crystal 20
4 oz crystal 40

1 oz Centennial FWH
1 oz Citra 15 min
1 oz Simcoe 1O min
1 oz Citra 5 min

Dry Hop w/ 1 oz Citra (Maybe a 2nd oz if y'all think that won't be too much, have never dried hopped before)

That brings me 1.073 OG and 79 IBUs.

Does this look any better? Thanks again everyone.


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[madams]

Played around with BeerSmith for a while and here is what I came up with, let me know how it looks. Thinking that I theoretically split my original grain bill in half I will have the 3 lbs 2Row, 8 oz Honey Malt, and 4 oz each of Crystal 20 and 40.

5 gal Batch
6.2 gal Boil

1.077 OG
83.6 IBU
7.8 SRM

11 lbs 2row
8 oz Honey Malt
4 oz Crystal 20
4 oz Crystal 40

Going to go ahead and keep the 3lbs LME in since I already have it and am pinching pennies to fix my screw up.

60 min 1 oz Centennial
15 min 1 oz Citra
10 min 1 oz Simcoe
5 min 1 oz Citra

WLP001 w/ starter and stirplate (1.5-2 L)

Honey still after day 3 of fermentation. 1 lb.

Dry Hop 1 oz Citra 5-7 days.

Does this look any better? Am I over looking anything? What about an extra ounce at dry hop? Any more late additions?

 

[MrHadack]

I'm thinking you'd be pretty happy with that recipe. As for the dry hopping, go ahead and toss that extra ounce in if you have it. Maybe more. I just did an IPA with 4 oz of dry hops, but I think 2 would have been fine.

 

[madams]

Thanks a lot. Part of me still wonders if taking the LME out and adding a few more lbs of 2row would make me even happier. Lose the crystal that's in the LME also. Have any thoughts or opinions on that. The money isnt going to be as much an issues as expected. (Thank you IRS for giving me MY money back) Ha! Thanks again MrHadack.

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[madams]

I'm thinking you'd be pretty happy with that recipe. As for the dry hopping, go ahead and toss that extra ounce in if you have it. Maybe more. I just did an IPA with 4 oz of dry hops, but I think 2 would have been fine.

Thanks a lot. Part of me still wonders if taking the LME out and adding a few more lbs of 2row would make me even happier. Lose the crystal that's in the LME also. Have any thoughts or opinions on that. The money isnt going to be as much an issues as expected. (Thank you IRS for giving me MY money back) Ha! Thanks again MrHadack.

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[MrHadack]

I'm not sure if I am missing something, but if I enter your recipe into Beersmith *with* the LME included, I get something different. I'm assuming a 70% efficiency:

11# 2 Row
8oz Honey Malt
4oz Crystal 40
4oz Crystal 20
3# LME

1.094 OG
69 IBU
9.2 SRM

That seems to make the OG a bit high and subsequently you lose some IBU. Without the LME, this is what I get:

1.068 OG
83.5 IBU
7.0 SRM

I think that's closer to what you're looking for. Adding a couple pounds of 2 Row instead of the LME as you suggest might make it even better, I think, but it is up to you:

13# 2 Row
8oz Honey Malt
4oz Crystal 40
4oz Crystal 20

1.078 OG
77.5 IBU
7.4 SRM

 

[madams]

I'm not sure if I am missing something, but if I enter your recipe into Beersmith *with* the LME included, I get something different. I'm assuming a 70% efficiency:

11# 2 Row
8oz Honey Malt
4oz Crystal 40
4oz Crystal 20
3# LME

1.094 OG
69 IBU
9.2 SRM

That seems to make the OG a bit high and subsequently you lose some IBU. Without the LME, this is what I get:

1.068 OG
83.5 IBU
7.0 SRM

I think that's closer to what you're looking for. Adding a couple pounds of 2 Row instead of the LME as you suggest might make it even better, I think, but it is up to you:

13# 2 Row
8oz Honey Malt
4oz Crystal 40
4oz Crystal 20

1.078 OG
77.5 IBU
7.4 SRM

Do you think it could possibly be difference in efficiency? Being my first AG, I have it set at 60%. I always realized this morning i have it set for 5.25 gallon batch and not 5. What is a realistic efficiency number? On my PM I was getting in the 70s. Should I expect that in my AG? This will be first time using my MLT.

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[MrHadack]

There are a lot of things that can affect efficiency, but I think expecting 70% on your first try is acceptable. When you say this is the first time using your MLT, does that mean this is your first all-grain mash?

Also, while on the topic, are you using distilled / RO water, or water directly from your kitchen sink?

 

[madams]

There are a lot of things that can affect efficiency, but I think expecting 70% on your first try is acceptable. When you say this is the first time using your MLT, does that mean this is your first all-grain mash?

Also, while on the topic, are you using distilled / RO water, or water directly from your kitchen sink?

Yea. First AG, have done a couple Partials. And as of right now I have been using tap. I have done some top off water with distilled. Wasn't sure about all the water chemistry stuff yet.

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[MrHadack]

The main reason I was asking about the water was because of the efficiency of the mash and how it pH can affect it. I can help with that a little bit if you like. Water chemistry doesn't have to be really complex. But if you'd rather put that off and just focus on doing your first mash, it won't be the end of the world.

 

[madams]

I plan on brewing this Saturday. If i were to go and buy some water. Any suggestions on type, brand, things to look for?

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[MrHadack]

I typically use ordinary distilled water that you can buy in a gallon jug at the local supermarket. Nothing special. But if your tap water has been making fine tasting beer already with partial mashes, don't do anything special this time around.

If you like, I can have a look at your water profile (as long as you aren't on well water.) What city do you live in?