Tincture Failures

[Architect-Dave]

I have been experimenting with several beers using spices. I made the Northern Brewer’s Grandma’s Secret Stash oatmeal raisin stout (vanilla, and cinnamon), I have made saison with black pepper (twice…once with 2 tsp of cracked pepper corns and the other time with 1-1/2 tbsp), and made a spiced Christmas ale (vanilla, cinnamon, and dried cherries). In all of these examples, I took the spices, added them to a mason jar and added about 6 ounces of Vodka. I would give it a swirl every day for about two weeks. When it came time to bottle, I added the tincture liquid to the bottling bucket just before packaging.

In each of these examples, the spice flavor did not come through…at all. I read that tinctures work, but I just cannot get any flavor out of them. What have all of you tincture makers done to make that flavor come through? Is it a question of adding mor spices just to saturate the Vodka more?

Do you get better results with a whirlpool or adding to primary as you transfer from the boil pot?

I am making a mole porter that will have Guarino, ancho and chipotle peppers (dried), an ounce of cocoa nibs, cumin seeds, cinnamon sticks, cloves, thyme and a star anise. i want to make sure these flavors come through - subtle, though…but there.

 

[odie]

did you crush everything up real good?

Also, I suggest everclear for more extraction.

 

[G_robertus]

Opening up vanilla and cracking corns will help extraction. I tend to use spent beans and they work well. Time also really helps. Depending on the ingredient I'll let jars stand up to months or longer. Vanilla especially improves over time.
Also don't be afraid to make very strong tinctures to adjust the dose very precisely at packaging. Cinnamon also typically works very well for me. I've had potent pepper tinctures as well.

Make sure your ingredients are fresh and fragrant/flavourful. If they don't carry flavour the can't add that to your beer either.

 

[Agent]

Piggybacking on @G_robertus , the beauty of tinctures is that you can immediately taste the results. So if your current tinctures aren't enough, your choices are more intense tinctures, or more volume of tincture (or both!)

When I did my Bacon Ale, it was a pound of bacon cooked and shoved into a quart jar topped up with vodka. Absolutely intense, but it still took the entirety of my liquid to produce the result I wanted.

And my real vanilla extracts aren't satisfactory until around the 6-9 month mark.

 

[Architect-Dave]

Yes, I crack whole spice berries into what would be about 5 to 10 pieces each. I will up the amount of solids going forward. Good to know that I am heading in a better direction.

 

[Skeeter686]

When I did my Bacon Ale, it was a pound of bacon cooked and shoved into a quart jar topped up with vodka. Absolutely intense, but it still took the entirety of my liquid to produce the result I wanted.

OK. I've been toying with a bacon beer and making my own bacon extract. Did you produce your extract at room temperature? Or did you keep it in the fridge because of the bacon?

I'm a bit leery of doing it at room temperature, but I would think that fridge temperature would really slow the extraction.

 

[G_robertus]

Yes, I crack whole spice berries into what would be about 5 to 10 pieces each. I will up the amount of solids going forward. Good to know that I am heading in a better direction.

It could be that you need more time because of the relatively low amount of material. More material gets you to a noticeable level faster, though I still think slow is better than fast.

OK. I've been toying with a bacon beer and making my own bacon extract. Did you produce your extract at room temperature? Or did you keep it in the fridge because of the bacon?

I'm a bit leery of doing it at room temperature, but I would think that fridge temperature would really slow the extraction.

If you add enough strong alcohol room temperature should be safe, especially when you've properly cooked the bacon. Most (dangerous) organisms die to ethanol (especially from 20+% ABV) and most toxins are denatured by heat.

 

[Architect-Dave]

It could be that you need more time because of the relatively low amount of material. More material gets you to a noticeable level faster, though I still think slow is better than fast.


If you add enough strong alcohol room temperature should be safe, especially when you've properly cooked the bacon. Most (dangerous) organisms die to ethanol (especially from 20+% ABV) and most toxins are denatured by heat.

I have made bacon bourbon. I used a sous vide. Placed the cooked bacon in 4-oz mason jars and topped with bourbon. Sous vide for a few hours, strain and refrigerate. Now, this gives me an idea for the spices…thanks for running away with. My thread, it actually pointed me in a potentially great direction!

 

[TBA]

Reading this over breakfast. Mmmm bacon. I now must brew a bacon beer. Does the bacon fat kill the head of the beer?

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

I've made tinctures with vodka, burbon and rum as the base, and spices charred wood chips or fruit as per the recipe, as noted here, the longer in the tincture,the better, I add tincture, 3-5 days before botteling, it makes a big difference instead of adding it the day you bottle.

 

[dmtaylor]

Some things I think are better boiled. I used to do a vodka or tequila tincture of jalapenos for my jalapeno porter. It's good, but these days I boil the jalapenos in a little beer for like 5 minutes and then add that instead, and skip the tincture. I enjoy this more. Same must be true of certain other spices. Or it's a matter of personal palate and/or opinion.

 

[odie]

Reading this over breakfast. Mmmm bacon. I now must brew a bacon beer. Does the bacon fat kill the head of the beer?

that's my question. fat/oils kill head retention...how was this addressed?

 

[Agent]

So for my bacon extract, I did keep that in the fridge, but mostly because it was 2-3 weeks before I was ready to keg.

I'll admit that my weakness is making beer with outstanding head, but my "fatty" beers usually fare just as well as my regular beers for head. With the bacon extract, I did run that through a coffee filter to catch any fat chunks.

And when I do my Black Walnut beers, I cold crash and the fat layer stays pretty intact on top.

And now I'm very intrigued with @dmtaylor method for boiling some things.

 

[G_robertus]

Some things I think are better boiled. I used to do a vodka or tequila tincture of jalapenos for my jalapeno porter. It's good, but these days I boil the jalapenos in a little beer for like 5 minutes and then add that instead, and skip the tincture. I enjoy this more. Same must be true of certain other spices. Or it's a matter of personal palate and/or opinion.

Interesting, I thought the exact opposite when using Surinamese and Caribbean peppers. I felt like boiling contributed mostly heat and no flavour, but tinctures give both. Reaper extract is not recommended though. Never tried boiling in beer though.

I have made bacon bourbon. I used a sous vide. Placed the cooked bacon in 4-oz mason jars and topped with bourbon. Sous vide for a few hours, strain and refrigerate. Now, this gives me an idea for the spices…thanks for running away with. My thread, it actually pointed me in a potentially great direction!

Adding heat will speed up the process of making tinctures, yes. I still wouldn't do it for all spices though. Vanilla and cacao are wonderful given enough time.

Regarding the bacon questions: there was a post on Reddit on making bacon extract and they also froze/chilled it to skim off fats. See.
You could also add a ton of wheat and tetra-iso extract if you really want to ensure head retention.

 

[Skeeter686]

If you add enough strong alcohol room temperature should be safe, especially when you've properly cooked the bacon. Most (dangerous) organisms die to ethanol (especially from 20+% ABV) and most toxins are denatured by heat.

I guess part of my concern is that the bacon fat floats to the top, so it isn't really "in" the high ABV ethanol. I think I need to research this more. I feel that the fridge should be safe, I just don't want to take 5x or 10x the time for the extraction because of the cold temperature. I have no idea how much it will slow the process.

 

[G_robertus]

I guess part of my concern is that the bacon fat floats to the top, so it isn't really "in" the high ABV ethanol. I think I need to research this more. I feel that the fridge should be safe, I just don't want to take 5x or 10x the time for the extraction because of the cold temperature. I have no idea how much it will slow the process.

You could keep shaking the jar to make sure the fat gets into contact with the alcohol or just decant/pipette it off. Fats are also not the most hospitable environment generally so I don't think it would be a major reason for concern. You could chill, scrape off the fat and return to room temperature as well.