Thoughts on Partigyle grain bill

[clarksc4]

I want to do a partigyle brew that will make a rye barleywine and a rye IPA. I haven't done the individual recipes in beersmith, but this is what I've come up with for the mash so far.
The total OG will be 1.070 and I will collect wort for 2.5 gallons @ 1.105 and 5 gallons @ 1.053 (post boil gravity)
16# 2 row
4# rye
1# crystal 80
.5# flaked wheat
.25# chocolate malt

I will probably have to tweak the numbers a bit for volumes but I'm just looking for feedback on the grain bill to start.
Thanks

 

[skunkfunk]

Have you done this before? I might be interested in trying something like this myself.

 

[clarksc4]

I have done partigyle before, haven't made many recipes on my own. I can answer some general questions as far as the process goes though

 

[skunkfunk]

After having read what I can find online about it, I still don't see how to calculate the gravity of the first and second runnings. Seems like there's a bit of guesswork as to how much extraction you get with the first runnings.

 

[clarksc4]

I used this for my OG estimate http://www.astrocaver.com/java/Parti-Gyle.html
I'm doing 2.5gal and 5gal, so my OG for the smaller volume is twice the OG of the large volume. Im going to drain my tun until I have the correct sugar extraction and adjust volume as needed. Then sparge to collect wort for second beer. I have not done an equal volume partigyle

 

[clarksc4]

I'm mashing 22.75# of grain and want to collect 4.5 gallons of wort to boil down to 2.5 gallons @1.105 OG. I calculate that the grain will absorb ~11.5 qts and I want to collect wort without any sparging so it's not diluted. My strike volume will be 30 qts so I should collect 30-11.5=18.5qt
2.5 gallons x 105 ppg is 263 gravity points. I will check the gravity and volume to see when I have enough. If I have to sparge a little, I boil longer. If I collect a higher density wort before reaching my target volume I can decrease boil or add water to kettle

 

[roastquake]

Here's my experience with partigyle:

http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/140-wee-heavy-double-mash

Hope it helps!

 

[clarksc4]

Does anyone have any recommendations on the grain bill as far as style and flavor? I'm comfortable with the raw numbers, but I want to know if that grain bill will taste good as a barleywine and an IPA

 

[RonPopeil]

what you're doing is also referred to combined grist brewing. when you call it that it becomes a lot easier to figure out how much grain you're going to need.

formulate the recipes for each beer you're making seperately and then combine the grainbills and mash them all at once. collect two boil volumes. if you're second run is coming out weaker then expected you can add some DME to it when you boil or steal some of the higher OG wort from your first run to compensate.

sparging could become an issue because you could have close to 30# of grain in a 10gal cooler. meaning you're going to mash with about 7 gallons of strike. fly sparging is going to be your best answer or replicating something similar. i would heat up 7 gallons of sparge water in the kettle and keep adding it with a pitcher until i collected all the wort i need.

realistically you're probably going to be able to blend the two runs because your first run is going to come out high since you have so much grain in the tun.

 

[clarksc4]

I've done partigyle before, I know the quantity of grain I need, I'm asking about the quality. I have an 18 gallon mash tun and I'm mashing 22.75#, not 30. I will be using 30qt of strike water for reasons I explained in previous post.
I don't want to blend them, I intend to have a smaller volume strong beer and a larger volume regular beer.

 

[roastquake]

Does anyone have any recommendations on the grain bill as far as style and flavor? I'm comfortable with the raw numbers, but I want to know if that grain bill will taste good as a barleywine and an IPA

Looks good to me, if I didn't know better I would say lower the chocolate malt, but from my experience I posted above, I found that the color will mostly only make it into the first big beer as my small beer from that brew came out golden while the big beer was deep red

 

[clarksc4]

Yeah the chocolate is there mainly for some color. 4 oz in 23# is not much! I'm hoping the rye will be enough to make the IPA a little red and the chocolate will help make the BW a bit darker as it's going to be darker since it's the first runnings. I'm planning on a 90 minute boil for both. The experience I've had with PG brews is that you need to be able to adjust and take good notes. I'm more focused on getting the BW right. My friend is visiting from Japan and we're going to brew this for the next time he visits. The last time he was stateside was two years ago, so it may be a while before I know how it turns out. I need to pick up a 3 gallon carboy/better bottle for secondary, don't want a ton of headspace.

 

[clarksc4]

So I have the two beers that I will be making from the mash listed above. The mash will be 90 minutes at 153*F
I bought a pound of Brewers Gold a few weeks back so I plan on using a good amount of that. I need to double check my boil off, but right now I'm assuming 1.25 gallons per hour

Rye Barleywine:
OG=1.105 FG=1.025 IBU=48 SRM=18
Collect 4.5 gallons of first runnings, gravity should be 1.06 preboil. Boil for 90 minutes
Hop Schedule:
1 oz Brewer's Gold FWH
1 oz Brewer's Gold 90 min
1 oz Brewer's Gold 60 min
1 oz East Kent Goldings 30 min
.3 oz Columbus 15min
.6oz Mt Hood 15 min

Yeast will be US-05, need to check pitching rate when I'm on my computer at home.
After fermentation is complete, dry hop with 1oz Cascade for 14 days, then cold crash and rack to secondary to age for 60 days before bottling, adding yeast at bottling.

Rye IPA
OG= 1.052 FG=1.011 IBU=45 SRM=11
Sparge mash to collect 6.75 gallons of second runnings, preboil gravity should be 1.04. 60 minute boil
Hop Schedule:
.5 oz Brewer's Gold FWH
.5oz Magnum 60 min
.5 oz Brewer's Gold 30 min
1 oz Cascade 0 min

Yeast will be US-05, as above
After fermentation, dry hop with 1oz Cascade for 7 days, then cold crash and bottle.

Any suggestions are welcome, this is the first partigyle that I've made myself, so if there's something that's really odd/weird, I won't take offense at constructive cristicism. I'm hoping to brew this on the 27th, so hopefully I can get to my LHBS tomorrow morning!
Thanks!

 

[clarksc4]

Any feedback? I'm going to pick up supplies today, hoping everything will work well

 

[RonPopeil]

1.025 is a pretty high finish for your barley wine. i had one go from 1.100 down to about 1.023 and it was pretty sweet. that was with two packs of US-05 as well. i bittered it to over 100 IBU and it tasted slightly sweet. not bitter at all. in hindsight i would try a liquid yeast and do an enormous starter. i wouldn't think twice about doing 4L of starter.

48 IBU is kind of light for the style. i would want this up to the 60's at least. if you're going american barleywine high IBU is proper. if you're going english barleywine BU:GU around .5-.6 would be proper and a lower mash temp would be to style as well. realistically there's no difference between a 90 minute addition and a 60 minute one. many will tell you that FWH is also a moot point but i don't throw my hat in to that one.

i see you're using magnum on the IPA. i would probably bitter with that in the barleywine.

i guess it's important to understand how long you want to let that barleywine age. the IPA looks fine.

 

[clarksc4]

Thanks you for the input, changed mash temp to 150 to bring FG down a few points. I also added 1oz magnum at 90, brings IBU up to around 75. This is only a 2.5 gallon batch, and mrmalty yeast calc says I need .8 packets of dry yeast (11.5g packet)
My LHBS was actually out of liquid yeast right now bc of shipping before holiday so I'm glad I was planning on dry. I will be aerating with pump and SS stone before pitching and again a few hoes after pitching.
I'm not overly concerned about FG, I have a batch of BVIP that went from 1.070 to 1.025 that is very nice, and it has a much lower IBU. I'm still going to lower to 150, a drier IPA wouldn't hurt, and the BW should still be safe from being watery

 

[clarksc4]

Chilling the rye IPA now, the BW ended up being bigger than expected. Even after having to strain hop stew, I ended up with 2.25 gallons @ 1.120! I added a quart of top up water to have it at interred gravity of 1.105. The rye IPA was at my preboil target of 1.040. Today went to smooth, I was surprised. BW is cooling a little more on basement while it aerates with SS stone and pump before pitching

 

[clarksc4]

Update
The rye IPA is at 1.02 and the barleywine is at 1.05 and both still have krausen. They are in my basement and both fermometers read 59*F. Ambient temp is currently ~50*, I set a small space heater for the room set at 62 and will be checking on the barleywine every few hours. The IPA is just about done though.

 

[clarksc4]

Added 1oz cascade to RIPA for dry hop, will bottle next Thursday. The barleywine was at 1.034 on the 4th an is at 1.030 today. I bumped up the temp a little and gave a swirl to hopefully shave off another 5-8 gravity points. Fingers crossed!