Thought I had done enough research on lagers until...

[unixchick]

We're relatively new to home brewing, but have done multiple successful batches, and we took the chance and brewed a lager. I felt like we did a ton of research on them, even picking up an extra fridge to use for temperature control, and setup a thermometer and temperature controller to keep it steady. The fridge temperature is around 52F, which seemed ideal from my research and for the yeast used (WLP800).

We brewed almost 3 weeks ago, and frankly sort of let it be and forgot about it, except for checking it from time to time to look for signs of fermentation and to make sure the temperature was okay.

Today after 3 weeks we did a gravity check. The OG was 1.049, right in line with what it should've been.... and today the gravity was.... 1.049~ My WTF moment.

There was definite fermentation signs over the past 3 weeks, albeit very slow and not like the other beers we've brewed (IPA's, pale ale's, and a strawberry blonde), but we had expected that since it was in low temperatures. The wort tastes very sweet, it's definitely not done fermenting.

I'm really not sure what to do now. The gravity hasn't budged. The hydrometer Is fine, it has read properly in other brews and reads properly with water. We pitched the yeast with a 1000ml starter that I thought seemed to have a decent slurry. We pitched the yeast at around 55-60F, trying to pitch with the yeast and wort within 5F of each other.

Should we pitch more yeast? Maybe the starter wasn't enough as we thought it was. Maybe our fridge temp is off and the temp was too low, but I think the temperature is correct. Will it be a problem to raise the temperature? I'm pretty lost at this point, I was not anticipating this at all.

Any ideas or suggestions would be great. There's so much conflicting info that I'm not sure what to do.

 

[Kent88]

Was this an all-grain or extract batch? If all-grain (or partial mash), what was the recipe? What was the final volume of wort?

 

[d3track]

Something's wrong if there are signs of fermentation, and I've used wlp800 multiple times, it was actually pretty vigorous.

Did you use pure O2? A 1L starter is under pitching for a lager at 5 gallons, so there could have been a pretty big lag.

Try bumping it up a few degrees, see if you can get it going.

 

[FarmerTed]

If it's really still at 1.049 after 3 weeks, I would just dump it. That's a long time for wort to sit (even cold). If you really want to keep it, aerate it and pitch two packs of re-hydrated Saflager 34/70, and warm it up to 52-53F to get it going. For me, that yeast would go through a 1.049 beer in 5-6 days if I started around 51 F, and let the temp rise after about 2 days.

 

[h22lude]

I don't think it has anything do to with the recipe. I just don't think you pitched nearly enough yeast.

Did you use Mr Malty? I assume you did a 5 gallon batch and did a regular starter without a stir plate. I made the yeast production date June 1st though I bet it was even before that. I come up with 2 vials in a 5L starter. Using only 1 vial you would have needed a 12L starter.

 

[brewing_clown]

Doesn't make sense that you saw signs of fermentation but SG has not changed. Are you testing with a hydrometer? Did you adjust the reading for temperature?

Assuming that your fermentation has stalled, in your position, I would probably raise the temp to about 55 and see if there is activity. If not, throw in a couple of vials of 830.

Good luck!

PS: How old was the 800 when you began your starter?

 

[Cider123]

I'm not a big lager guy. I say let it warm up to 64F, pitch a packet of 05 and call it good.

 

[unixchick]

We ended up raising the temperature to around 60F and we're seeing some activity. It's slow but definitely there, so I think we are going to pitch some more yeast, keep the temp up to a steady but higher temperature and see what happens. I'm not opposed to waiting it out for a bit to see what happens, I don't think we'll be trying another lager for awhile, haha I think possibly it was a combination of too little yeast and really low temperatures.

It is an extract batch and it is 5 gallons. The starter was not done with a stir plate, but it was stirred pretty regularly for about 36 hours, though we have since bought one so future starters will be.

Not sure about the age of the 800, but my LHBS is MoreBeer which is a pretty big company that ships nationwide and generally seem to run through product pretty quickly - they are actually out of that particular yeast right now at their showroom in Concord, CA so I don't imagine it was too old.

I'm pretty sure the hydrometer is fine, and really I was totally thrown off when we took the reading. Here I thought we might be getting ready to rack it to a secondary for lagering at lower temperatures and this totally threw me for a loop.

Thanks everyone! I guess we'll see

 

[brewing_clown]

No imagination should be needed for the age of the yeast. There is a date on the tube.

 

[joshesmusica]

Even underpitching should still ferment some after 3 weeks.

Did you warm up the part you tested the sg in first? Or find a calculator to adjust for you?

 

[h22lude]

I would agree even under pitching should have lowered the SG a little. Thought it seems like they under pitched by a good amount. With a lot less yeast and lower temps, it is possible the yeast couldn't do their job well enough.

With intermediate shaking, a 2 vial 3L starter would have been what you needed. I think pitching some more yeast and keeping the temp up for a few days may help get this going.

 

[unixchick]

No imagination should be needed for the age of the yeast. There is a date on the tube.

Sorry, I know I wasn't able to check when I was responding at that time. The use by date is 8/15.

We pitched another 2 vials of yeast with no starter because we didn't want to wait a couple of days for the starter. The temperature is around 58 and it was fermenting vigorously when I left for work at 5:30 this morning.

We currently have it out of the fridge and are going to try controlling the temperature outside of it instead of putting it in.

I'm just hoping at this point that it'll at least turn out okay and drinkable, even if it's not as good as it could've been.

 

[joshesmusica]

Sorry, I know I wasn't able to check when I was responding at that time. The use by date is 8/15.

We pitched another 2 vials of yeast with no starter because we didn't want to wait a couple of days for the starter. The temperature is around 58 and it was fermenting vigorously when I left for work at 5:30 this morning.

We currently have it out of the fridge and are going to try controlling the temperature outside of it instead of putting it in.

I'm just hoping at this point that it'll at least turn out okay and drinkable, even if it's not as good as it could've been.

i'm sure you won't get anything a longer lagering period can't help. But i'm sure you'll be ok. and now lesson learned, next time make sure to use a yeast calculator.

 

[MattyIce]

I am surprised that you did not get any measurable fermentation even considering underpitching with old yeast.

 

[h22lude]

Sorry, I know I wasn't able to check when I was responding at that time. The use by date is 8/15.

That's your problem. The production date was April 15. That yeast isn't very fresh. You would need 5 vials and a 3L starter to get the right amount of yeast according to Mr Malty.

 

[unixchick]

Just for a little update - after pitching more yeast on the 21st of July, fermentation kicked into gear quite vigorously, so I do think we did not have nearly enough yeast as well as it not being fresh enough - though my boyfriend was incorrect on the date; it was OCTOBER 2015 best by, not August. Still, I think that we didn't have nearly enough yeast and I think our initial fermentation temperatures were entirely too low.

We left it sitting at around 58F, and 10 days later it's actually looking pretty good. We did a gravity check last night and it was at 1.018 - and we did a taste test and it was okay. We're going to continue to ride it out and see what happens.

That being said - once fermentation is done, I'm still quite conflicted on what our next avenue is. I have read so much conflicting information on what is best for a lager. We asked at our LHBS yesterday, and said we were planning on lagering at around 40F, and the guy said he thought that was "kind of low", which I thought odd because I've mostly read that you should lager at the lowest possible temperature above freezing. Should we rack it to a secondary? Bring it out for a couple of days for a diacetyl rest and then rack, or just leave it in the primary? I am a little concerned about leaving it just because of all the issues we already have had, but not really sure.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[JimRausch]

Wow, congratulations. Looks like you dodged a bullet. Now is the time to warm her up, partially for a Diacetyl rest, but also to let her finish. You want to make sure you get everything that yeast can deliver after being semi-comatose for so long.
Personally, with my lagers, after I'm sure they are finished, I rack to a secondary and then chill down as low as I can get for anywhere from 3 weeks to a couple months. I do my lagers in the winter, so they go out to my unheated garage in a swamp cooler filled with water. Usually achieve temps down around 34-40, although last winter my bock froze completely at one point. Sipping one now- it's pretty good. Mmmmmm Malty.