Anyone have any problems with the water heating to a boil before the grain gets to mash out temp? I might have had the propane up a little high as time started to become a problem yesterday (either way she is bubbling away now...) While waiting for the grain to hit mash out the water started to boil below the grain bed, anyone ever had a problem with this? Anything I can do to prevent other than going much lower on the heat? Never had tis happen before (5th batch of BIAB) so maybe just a fluke but was curious if you all had any ideas for preventing this or maybe not using the basket. Thanks!
Those using turkey fryer baskets...
- Thread starter tooblue02
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Foosier
Well-Known Member
Stirring is the key. you need to keep the mash moving to prevent temp stratification.
I don't use my basket during the mash. Once the mash is done I lift the bag into the basket and set an oven grate on top of the kettle and then place the basket on the grate allowing the bag to drain. I also use this for sparging if needed. I found that I could not stir the mash very well with the basket in the kettle compared to being out but that might be do to using a smaller basket.
I use a basket, but don't do a mash out. After dough-in I do have to stir a frequently, and gently "tea bag" the basket & grain to circulate water in and out of the basket and bag. Doing this, the temp differences between inside the basket and outside are about 1 degree, tops.
For mash-out, I would think frequent stirring and raising/lowering the basket will help circulate water and keep the temps fairly consistent.
For mash-out, I would think frequent stirring and raising/lowering the basket will help circulate water and keep the temps fairly consistent.
Skip the mash out. It isn't needed. Just pull the bag out when the mash is done and turn the burner on. While your wort is heating you can be squeezing the bag or doing some kind of sparge. Your wort should hit mash out temp in a couple of minutes.
mdabbles
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I had this very thing happen on my first biab recently. Created to much unfermentables and pretty much ruined my stout. I ordered a stainless steel pot - thus was an aluminum fryer. Reached boiling water while grain temp was below 152.
Sent from my C5155 using Home Brew mobile app
Sent from my C5155 using Home Brew mobile app
Not a fan of using baskets, I just don't see a need.
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tooblue02
Well-Known Member
Starting to believe this myself! Just sent you a PM with a couple of questions.
roastquake
Well-Known Member
I use the basket because my (1) my induction burner tends to scorch things if they are touching the bottom of the pot, but not if it's raised in the fryer basket, and (2) I have a kettle screen that rips paint strainers, and the basket keeps the bag away from the screen. I still squeeze the bag and all, It's just cheap insurance against scorching and ripped bags for me
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I used the basket on my first BIAB , not a fan. You have more room to stir the grain without the basket. Just put the little rack it comes with in the bottom of the kettle . Happy brewing . I brewed a Smash American Session Ale it's awesome ! Northern brewer recipe all grain . I did BIAB it's my best out of Six brews.
Your induction heater won't scorch if you don't add heat while the bag is in the pot. You don't need to add any heat while the grain is in there unless you are mashing where it is very cold. Just bring the water to your strike temp, drop in the bag and stir in the grains. Pop a lid on and wrap up the whole pot with something to insulate it like a jacket or sleeping bag. Pull the bag of grains out and turn your heater back on to heat up the wort.
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tooblue02
Well-Known Member
I ordered the bag combo from Wilserbrewer, the fryer basket just sits to high up and I think it might be affecting efficiency (my opinion only). I have been hitting mid to high 60's with super fine crush and the right mash temps but with the grain bills around 13-15 to even 17 lb's for some of the higher OG beers it is definitely affecting something. Picking up ingredients for an IPA tomorrow, hopefully I get the bags before I brew!
BadDeacon
Well-Known Member
Slowly raising and lowering basket til you get to mash out temp then killing the heat works for me.
Why are you worrying about mash out? You aren't fly sparging. Pull the bag right out and start heating. That will stop the enzyme action quicker than trying to get the entire grain bag to "mash out temp".:rockin:
BadDeacon
Well-Known Member
Understood. But I do get better efficiency (5-10% more). Also, I hang the basket after mashing out and sparge over the grains to get me up to a 5 gal batch. I have been doing this for 6-8 batches including an 8% abv with great success.
I have tried various combinations and this is my most reliable method. The basket helps support the weight of the grain bag. I use the paint Steiner bags. I reuse then 2-3 times then grab a new one.
solbes
Well-Known Member
I also get a 5-10% bump in efficiency when doing a mashout. YMMV.
I use the basket and just make sure to stir well every 2-3 minutes as its heating from mash temps to mashout. Once it hits 170, raise the basket with grain using my rope/pully and suspend above the wort. Slowly pour the sparge water over it as the wort is heating to boiling.
I use the basket and just make sure to stir well every 2-3 minutes as its heating from mash temps to mashout. Once it hits 170, raise the basket with grain using my rope/pully and suspend above the wort. Slowly pour the sparge water over it as the wort is heating to boiling.
BadDeacon
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solbes
Well-Known Member
Gotta squeeze your bag 
Seven
Well-Known Member
Why are you worrying about those who do a mash out? Does it hurt anything? Do you skip it because of time savings? If yes, I can say not everyone is in a hurry to get to the finish line. If taking 20 extra minutes to do mash out could possibly improve my beers then I'm going to do it.
Authoritative comments like this bug me .... really everyone's setup and process is different and it just comes down to doing what works for you.
Same goes to those who advocate for basket vs. no basket with such booming authority. You know who you are.
Why are you worrying about those who do a mash out? Does it hurt anything? Do you skip it because of time savings? If yes, I can say not everyone is in a hurry to get to the finish line. If taking 20 extra minutes to do mash out could possibly improve my beers then I'm going to do it.
Authoritative comments like this bug me .... really everyone's setup and process is different and it just comes down to doing what works for you.
Same goes to those who advocate for basket vs. no basket with such booming authority. You know who you are.
I do it because so many are saying that you have to do a mash out. You don't unless you are fly sparging which most aren't. It's said with such authority that most brewers think it is mandatory when it isn't. In one of these posts the person was scorching his grains while doing a mash out, a step that is totally unnecessary. The original poster was having trouble with the water boiling under the screen that was holding his grain bag away from the flame. A problem that was totally unnnecessary. Why continue to do a step that causes you problems when you don't need to do that step at all.
Seven
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen anyone say that you MUST do a mash out. I mash out every time and have never encountered scorching or any other problems. I would venture a guess that the OP is having equipment configuration issues and fingering the mash out as the sole cause and claiming that it's a useless step is misleading. With proper technique and equipment tuning a mash out would be very simple.
MindenMan
Well-Known Member
Why can't we all get along? C'mon guys, all I see is a pissing match about mash out. Here is the only truth about mashing out: If it improves your O.G., then great, if it doesn't, don't let somebody tell you to do it.
Seven
Well-Known Member
It's not a pissing match. It's a friendly conversation. We can still have these from time to time, can't we?
BadDeacon
Well-Known Member
Frontal Hugs all around!
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tooblue02
Well-Known Member
I am gonna try a few different methods until I find what works for me! Besides, drinking home brew that you might have messed up is the best thing in the world! Here's to brewing in 2014 and brewing a lot! 
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Sounds like a winner ! Happy New Year!
I don't do a mash out, as I never saw any improvement from the step. I do a "pour-over" sparge, mainly because I can't get the full volume of grain and mash water to fit in my kettle and I need to hold back a gallon or two. After the mash, I just hoist up the basket and slowly pour the sparge water over the grain bag. I fire up the burner, and let the bag drain while the wort is heating up.
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I've noticed that it adds a few percent, as it rinses some more sugars out of the grain. YMMV.
divrguy
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I agree! Problem solved because the mash out is not really necessary with a full volume BIAB.
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tooblue02
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So just did my first beer with Wilserbrewers bags and I have to say they really helped! Still maintaining my 65% efficiency but the bags worked great and I hit my OG dead on the nails. Had a 17lb grain bill for this one and the was able to let it drain over the kettle while bringing it up to a boil. Hopefully it comes out ok, but all initial indications are that it will be a good IPA. Thanks Wilserbrewer!
kzimmer0817
Well-Known Member
Tooblue,
1. Did you use the basket this time?
2. Do you recirculate during mash or do you turn off your burner, check mash temp regularly, only to turn burner back on and stir like crazy to get your temp back up?
Thanks,
Keith
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tooblue02
Well-Known Member
I did not use the basket this time and just let the grains sit in the kettle for 75 minutes without stirring after I poured the grains in (of note I think my limit is 16 lbs of grain for the 10 gal kettle!) I have a temp probe in the kettle so I was able to monitor for the entire mash. Here is a picture of my set up today
kzimmer0817
Well-Known Member
How did your temps go with this setup? I guess they must have been fine if your gravity was spot on. BTW, what's up with the little space heater? Is that to prevent heat loss from the bottom of your kettle?
Thanks,
Keith
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tooblue02
Well-Known Member
Temps maintained pretty well which is what the heater was for. It was F'ing cold out side so I did what I could to manage the temperature loss during the mash. All in all I am excited for this one, I just shifted to the airlock today and it is still bubbling. Good layer of kruasen(SP?) and it smells terrific! Took the yeasties a few hours to wake up from the starter but they have been going strong.
Good job w/ such an aggressively large grain bill! Did you stir at the beginning of the mash? the end? IMO stirring is key to getting an even mash temp and a good rinse of the grain. Perhaps 65% is not too bad given the huge grain bill and high gravity?
For large grain bills that might reach the top of the kettle, I find it best to mash in a gallon short, then either add that back to the mash, or do a pour over sparge with a gallon...even a cold sparge if that's what you can manage. This way you have a little room to stir...
How is your crush?
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tooblue02
Well-Known Member
I did stir quite a bit at the beginning of the mash and had to drain about a 1/2 gallon out of the kettle because I had no more room. I saved that and added it back at the end. I did squeeze a good amount back into the kettle but I still have trouble getting good mash efficiency... I have my grain mill set really tight, my arm gets tired from the milling! Maybe time to upgrade to a motorized version!
The bag did make a huge difference though, I like how it tapers down and allows for a nice drainage into the kettle. I also spun it to help squeeze the grains a bit. Thanks again for the quick turnaround!
The bag did make a huge difference though, I like how it tapers down and allows for a nice drainage into the kettle. I also spun it to help squeeze the grains a bit. Thanks again for the quick turnaround!
MindenMan
Well-Known Member
Pardonnez moi faux pas, (I think) Look, I probably was somewhere else mentally. I will openly apologize for being wrong. It must be my time of the month.
