Thinking of BIAB brewing

[JONNYROTTEN]

I must have magic water.

Its soft water and I brew light ales, light lagers, IPA's AND dark Irish reds. The Irish red(dark beer)is my favorite

I've never made a single water adjustment and my beers taste better than most I try at a bar

Of course we have the best pizza and bagels in the country (debatable...but not really)
Everything I've ever heard is its because our water is so good

 

[wilserbrewer]

Your bags so you would know. I've never heard that. I guess its just from people using propane and the heat rising ....

Yes, you're on electric immersion element, so this this issue isn't really relevant for you.

I kinda feel like the Farmer's Insurance commercials, if it can happen with a BIAB bag, I've heard about it lol.

My favorite story is a guy was heating his strike water and set his brand new bag on a nearby table. He went back in the house for a minute and a gust of wind blew his bag into the burner flames....we covered it lol.

Or the guy that had his BIAB bag sucked down into the sink garbage disposal...we covered it....

And the new puppy one ....

 

[Cain]

I am debating whether or not to switch from extract to all grain, which is why I read this thread.

This thread has confused the issue immensely .

Some say the switch is relatively easy, others say a water analysis and further chemistry is needed to achieve a decent beer...discouraging to say the least. I am not, nor do I wish to become, a chemist.

Making extract beer is a great hobby. I think I may further enjoy the extra control and flavor options of all grain recipe choices, but if I need a degree in chemistry to switch to all grain, I think I would prefer to stick with extract brewing.

If the water I use for extract brewing makes good beer, will it make good all grain beer?

 

[Sbe2]

I am debating whether or not to switch from extract to all grain, which is why I read this thread.

This thread has confused the issue immensely .

Some say the switch is relatively easy, others say a water analysis and further chemistry is needed to achieve a decent beer...discouraging to say the least. I am not, nor do I wish to become, a chemist.

Making extract beer is a great hobby. I think I may further enjoy the extra control and flavor options of all grain recipe choices, but if I need a degree in chemistry to switch to all grain, I think I would prefer to stick with extract brewing.

If the water I use for extract brewing makes good beer, will it make good all grain beer?

Yes and no.

If you are a perfectionist and want absolute control of every aspect of your brew, you can do that with BIAB: water adjustments, ph, grain crush, dunk sparge, etc..

Or you can copy a recipes grain bill, add the crushed grain to heated water, mash at 152f for 60 minutes, pull your bag, let it drip into your kettle, boil your wort and continue like you were brewing extract.

It can be as simple or as complex as you want it. I build my water profile so that I can repliacte or make adjustments to the beer I make.

In the end it will be beer.

Come on and jump onto the crazy train of All Grain.:rockin:

 

[marjen]

Wow this thread blew up a little, lol. Lots of water talk. Right now I will be using RO water as stated. I will by making NE IPAs. SO basically using light oats. Like I said I do have some gypsum and CACL so could add those into the water if needed, not sure how much for 5 gallons? But I dont plan on taking water further than that at this time.

I am brewing extract tomorrow (weather permitting) as I have all the ingredients for it, then next brew day sometime next month might go for a BIAB batch.

Like all the discussion and advise.

 

[marjen]

Keep us updated on your venture into BIAB, your previous NEIPA thread was very entertaining.

Will do!

 

[mongoose33]

Your bags so you would know. I've never heard that. I guess its just from people using propane and the heat rising on the outside of the pot?
I know my rim doesn't get hot. I've been using the same bag for a long time and always put the bag in first. The bag looks perfect endless brews later

I'd actually wondered about this.

I have a Blichman Hellfire burner and on a high setting (not the highest--flame washed up the sides of my 10-gallon pot!), as the water approaches boiling it'll be simmering at the surface of the water at the sides of the pot. So I don't doubt that the bag could melt.

I'm glad to know my caution was well-justified in putting the bag in after the water reached strike temperature.

 

[jtratcliff]

but if I need a degree in chemistry to switch to all grain, I think I would prefer to stick with extract brewing.

You don't...

Yes, water chemistry is important... But, if you're doing your 1st all grain, it's not the most important (unless, of course, your water is total crap).

Does your water make decent beer from extract? Then it'll probably make decent beer via all grain. Will it be the best possible beer if you ignore water chemistry? Probably not... especially if you ignore chlorine/chloramine (campden tablets are your friend). There are things to happen during the mash that are affected by pH, mineral content of your water, etc. You should keep that in mind for the future.

Yes, you could make your beer better with adjustments to your water. Do you need to for your first few AG batches? Maybe not. If you're worried about it, do a 1 gallon test batch. Grind your grain fine so that you can get away with a 30 minute mash. Reduced volume will boil faster, so you're not putting too much more extra time compared to an extract batch (maybe 1 hour more?). Do a simple recipe in the style you'll do most often, or a converted version of your favorite simple extract recipe. And see how it comes out.

BIAB (or AG in general) doesn't have to be that hard. From the boil onward, it's the same as extract. I went from 4-5 Mr. Beer kits, to 1 homemade extract clone recipe, to BIAB. After several years and I can't recall how many batches, I've never adjusted my water except for Campden Tabs for chloramine. I don't own a pH meter.

I'm just now starting to look into water chemistry to improve my beers.

I'm lucky that my municipal water seems to be OK except for chloramines. Could my beers be better if looked at sulfate levels? Chloride? Alkalinity? Total dissolved solids? Almost certainly. But my beers are still quite good. My friends and family are happy to be gifted 6-12 bottles. I enjoy drinking them more than most commercial offerings.

It depends on your personality, brewing style, and palate. Is a "decent" beer good enough for your first all grain batch? Or must it be spectacular and far surpassing anything you've ever made before? Can you taste every defect in your beers? Or are they mostly pretty good? Are you willing to turn out a "meh" batch before looking into water chemistry or do your standards preclude anything that is merely at the same level as commercial beers?

Nothing anyone has said about water chemistry is incorrect (I don't think, I didn't scrutinize it that closely). It's just that unless you know for sure that your water isn't good for a certain style, then I wouldn't let chemistry stop you from trying BIAB. You'll make beer. It'll be fun. You'll learn something. And you can see if AG via BIAB is for you.

It might not be. You might prefer the relative ease and simplicity of extract brewing vs the extra hassle, yet more control, of AG. Plenty of great beer is being made by extract brewers. But it's worth trying, so you know for sure.

If your 1st AG batch turns out crappy, come back here and folks will help you trouble shoot. Might even turn out to be that water chemistry is the culprit.

Or you might just make a great tasting beer.

 

[Cain]

Thank you jtratcliff for your reply! I appreciate your time spent.

I use Tom Thumb brand bottled "spring water" for brewing. Would this preclude my need to test water, or does store bought spring water mean virtually nothing in regards to brewing?

 

[Sbe2]

Thank you jtratcliff for your reply! I appreciate your time spent.

I use Tom Thumb brand bottled "spring water" for brewing. Would this preclude my need to test water, or does store bought spring water mean virtually nothing in regards to brewing?

Wouldn't hurt to email them and ask for a water report, if your curiosity gets the better of ya.

I use distilled water(cheapest water in my area, go figure) so that my baseline is zero and build my profile to whatever I want it to be.

Or just mash with the spring water you have already used and see if you like it.

 

[RM-MN]

Thank you jtratcliff for your reply! I appreciate your time spent.

I use Tom Thumb brand bottled "spring water" for brewing. Would this preclude my need to test water, or does store bought spring water mean virtually nothing in regards to brewing?

Spring water would have some minerals which would usually make pretty decent beer, Misquoting John Palmer, "if your water tastes good to drink it will make decent beer". Go ahead, make a batch with it. If you are worried about it, make a small batch but I'd go with a full size batch.

 

[marjen]

Ordered my Wilser BIAB back. Ordered the home run package with the other goodies too. Looks like this could be my method next batch.

 

[Morrey]

Ordered my Wilser BIAB back. Ordered the home run package with the other goodies too. Looks like this could be my method next batch.

Good start! My buddy Mongoose33 summarized brewing by saying there is a learning curve involved. You have to start somewhere.

I knew I'd eventually have to tackle water chemistry along the line but heck, I wanted to brew some BIAB beer to get rolling. I used jugs of RO water from my office to get going since that is fairly neutral, now I use adjusted municipal water with lab reports.

Start somewhere, keep brewing, keep learning and always enjoy! You'll love BIAB.

 

[rhys333]

I've done a bunch of BIAB, and when I first started all my beers had an astringent flavor on the back end of them. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why mash ph? poor fermentation temperature control? So I bought a ph tester, an old fridge, and temperature control unit... the problem still persisted. I noticed a little bit of grain husks in the boil kettle after removing the bag especially during the hot break. So my next brew I rigged up a way to filter all the wort collected back through the grain bag so as to filter out any unwanted sediment or husks that may have made its way into the wort through one way or another. This step took atringent flavor out of my beers. Just my experience

Can you describe your process for filtering out the husk and sediment?

 

[Morrey]

Originally Posted by jdonley
I've done a bunch of BIAB, and when I first started all my beers had an astringent flavor on the back end of them. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why mash ph? poor fermentation temperature control? So I bought a ph tester, an old fridge, and temperature control unit... the problem still persisted. I noticed a little bit of grain husks in the boil kettle after removing the bag especially during the hot break. So my next brew I rigged up a way to filter all the wort collected back through the grain bag so as to filter out any unwanted sediment or husks that may have made its way into the wort through one way or another. This step took atringent flavor out of my beers. Just my experience



What type of grain bag were you using that was allowing husk materials to be in your wort? Getting the grain out of the wort effectively is the beauty of BIAB.

 

[doug293cz]

Can you describe your process for filtering out the husk and sediment?

Just use a fine mesh bag, like the type Wilser sells. Paint strainer bags, and most (L)HBS generic bags are too coarse to be optimal, but they do work. If you squeeze the bag (like I do) you will get some flour that makes it thru the mesh, but it's nothing to worry about. I start with cloudy wort (but no husk or grain chunks), and end up with crystal clear beers, thanks to cold crashing and gelatin after cold crash. I probably have more trub at the bottom of my fermenter due to the higher particulate level in the wort, but the trub stays in the fermenter if you use good racking technique.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I am debating whether or not to switch from extract to all grain, which is why I read this thread.

This thread has confused the issue immensely .

Some say the switch is relatively easy, others say a water analysis and further chemistry is needed to achieve a decent beer...discouraging to say the least. I am not, nor do I wish to become, a chemist.

Making extract beer is a great hobby. I think I may further enjoy the extra control and flavor options of all grain recipe choices, but if I need a degree in chemistry to switch to all grain, I think I would prefer to stick with extract brewing.

If the water I use for extract brewing makes good beer, will it make good all grain beer?

You can certainly make all grain beer without doing water adjustments, but unless your water is ideally suited for the style of beer you are making, your beer is not likely to be as good as it could be. Ignoring the water chemistry for your first few AG brews is certainly a sound strategy, but if you find your beers somewhat disappointing, it's time to start thinking about adjusting water.

The good news is that you do NOT need to understand the chemistry in order to do proper water adjustments. There are tools like Bru'nWater and EZWater that take care of the chemistry and calculations for you. To use them you just need to know what's in your starting water. If you are using distilled or RO water, it has (effectively) nothing in it, so things are simple. You do not NEED a pH meter, unless you want to verify that the calculations of the tool you use are "good enough", but they usually are, so you can get by w/o the meter. Water adjustments can make your beer taste better, and may improve your conversion efficiency (if your unadjusted mash pH is way off.)

Brew on

 

[rhys333]

Just use a fine mesh bag, like the type Wilser sells. Paint strainer bags, and most (L)HBS generic bags are too coarse to be optimal, but they do work. If you squeeze the bag (like I do) you will get some flour that makes it thru the mesh, but it's nothing to worry about. I start with cloudy wort (but no husk or grain chunks), and end up with crystal clear beers, thanks to cold crashing and gelatin after cold crash. I probably have more trub at the bottom of my fermenter due to the higher particulate level in the wort, but the trub stays in the fermenter if you use good racking technique.

Brew on

Yeah, I follow a similar process. Crystal clear brews, no husks but some of the flour does make it through. I would like to reduce this without having to wait for it to settle and decant.

 

[Morrey]

You can certainly make all grain beer without doing water adjustments

The good news is that you do NOT need to understand the chemistry in order to do proper water adjustments. There are tools like Bru'nWater and EZWater that take care of the chemistry and calculations for you. To use them you just need to know what's in your starting water. If you are using distilled or RO water, it has (effectively) nothing in it, so things are simple. You do not NEED a pH meter, unless you want to verify that the calculations of the tool you use are "good enough", Brew on

Plus 1. I have a ph meter simply because I do kettle sours regularly, but I have never checked the ph behind Bru'n Water to find that any of those calculations were inaccurate. If I were only doing standard non-soured beers, I would simply follow Bru'n water and not worry with a meter.

 

[bleme]

I've been brewing mostly BIAB for 4 years now. I'm interested in water chemistry but my filtered tap water is pretty good so I have been making great beer without it. I think getting involved with a local homebrew club helped a LOT. They let me know that our water is good for just about anything, but I might need a couple additions if I really want my IPA's to pop. I guess I cheated and made a Black IPA about 3 years ago. I still get asked by the guys at the club when I am going to make that again...

 

[Morrey]

I've been brewing mostly BIAB for 4 years now. I'm interested in water chemistry but my filtered tap water is pretty good so I have been making great beer without it. I think getting involved with a local homebrew club helped a LOT. They let me know that our water is good for just about anything, but I might need a couple additions if I really want my IPA's to pop. I guess I cheated and made a Black IPA about 3 years ago. I still get asked by the guys at the club when I am going to make that again...

You'd be your own best critic if you brewed a beer with unadjusted water, then the same beer with adjusted water. Adjustments including SO4/CL ratios and balances that really make your hop profiles come alive in IPA's that you mentioned. "Pop" is a good word

 

[marjen]

I am ready to go

 

[marjen]

Just ordered my ingredients for my first BIAB batch!

 

[casualbrewer]

Looking good! Little tip I like to do is mash in the grains 5-10 degrees cooler than you are shooting for and let it rise up to desired temps. That way you never miss your mash temps. If doing a sparge I recommend a dunk sparge in a few gallons to help with efficiency. Easy ways to keep it simple.

 

[RM-MN]

]Looking good! Little tip I like to do is mash in the grains 5-10 degrees cooler than you are shooting for and let it rise up to desired temps. That way you never miss your mash temps.[/COLOR] If doing a sparge I recommend a dunk sparge in a few gallons to help with efficiency. Easy ways to keep it simple.

If your grains are milled reasonably fine you will always miss your mash temps this way. As soon as the mash reaches the lowest temp for conversion it will start and by the time you get your mash up to the temp you want for the expected attenuation of the wort, you will have most of the starches converted at the lower temp.

Always start with a calculated strike temp. With care with the calculations, the correct water amount and the grain weight and temperature you will hit your mash temp within one or 2 degrees. If your grains are milled reasonably fine the conversion will be done before the temperature drops enough to notice.

 

[mj1angier]

Water is important. IF you have the abilities to taste it. I know what taste good or bad to me. Not what makes it good, lol

So I started BIAB and used bottle spring water. That cuts out a few things like chlorine. The BIAB went good and I saw a few things I need to address. None of which water had anything to do with. So I will plan to fix this before the water comes into play.

BIAB went scary easy for me. I worry that it was too easy, lol. I want to run 2-3 of same beer then mess with water. If I am changing 2-3 things each time I will never know what made what taste different!

This was my first BIAB https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=621545

 

[RM-MN]

Water is important. IF you have the abilities to taste it. I know what taste good or bad to me. Not what makes it good, lol

So I started BIAB and used bottle spring water. That cuts out a few things like chlorine. The BIAB went good and I saw a few things I need to address. None of which water had anything to do with. So I will plan to fix this before the water comes into play.

BIAB went scary easy for me. I worry that it was too easy, lol. I want to run 2-3 of same beer then mess with water. If I am changing 2-3 things each time I will never know what made what taste different!

This was my first BIAB https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=621545

That's because BIAB is scary easy. Heat water, stir in grains, wait, pull bag of grains out to drain. It can't get much easier. Some people go to great lengths to complicate it but it isn't necessary.

 

[Morrey]

I want to run 2-3 of same beer then mess with water. If I am changing 2-3 things each time I will never know what made what taste different!

Well thought out indeed.

 

[Morrey]

That's because BIAB is scary easy. Heat water, stir in grains, wait, pull bag of grains out to drain. It can't get much easier. Some people go to great lengths to complicate it but it isn't necessary.

BIAB is so easy sometimes we get bored and look for way to "complicate" the process. Do I need to add a pump and recirculate the mash? Do I need a whirlpool arm so I can vortex a hop stand or trub cone.....speed-up chilling? I thought about all this and "more stuff" seems to overly complicate the simplicity of BIAB which is what attracted me to this process to begin.

 

[marjen]

So just trying to nail down this process, weather depending might brew a batch this coming weekend if all my supplies arrive.

1. So I add all the water, looks like about 7.1 gallons to the kettle, get up to strike temp and pour in all malts and specialty grains.
2. Keep temp around 150-155 degrees for 60 mins.
3. pull out bag, let it drain.
4. Fire up to full boil and proceed as normal.

Is that all there is to it?

 

[Morrey]

We can make it complicated by introducing hundreds of ideas like "I do it this way", but the way you are approaching BIAB is basically the process in a nutshell. Yeppers, you are good to go.

I keep my kettle warm during mashing by wrapping it in a heavy mover's blanket.

 

[Sbe2]

So just trying to nail down this process, weather depending might brew a batch this coming weekend if all my supplies arrive.

1. So I add all the water, looks like about 7.1 gallons to the kettle, get up to strike temp and pour in all malts and specialty grains.
2. Keep temp around 150-155 degrees for 60 mins.
3. pull out bag, let it drain.
4. Fire up to full boil and proceed as normal.

Is that all there is to it?

Yupp, maybe get the the water to strike temp before putting in the bag. That way you avoid scorching the bottom of the bag.

Other than that, welcome to BIAB!

 

[mongoose33]

We can make it complicated by introducing hundreds of ideas like "I do it this way", but the way you are approaching BIAB is basically the process in a nutshell. Yeppers, you are good to go.

I keep my kettle warm during mashing by wrapping it in a heavy mover's blanket.

Here's me doing BIAB a couple weeks ago; the burner is OFF, and residual heat from the burner kept me in a good place w/r/t temperature:

 

[Morrey]

Here's me doing BIAB a couple weeks ago; the burner is OFF, and residual heat from the burner kept me in a good place w/r/t temperature:

View attachment 394252

Does your SWMBO know you have grandma's handmade quilt out in your brewcave wrapping kettles? LOL...J/K.

Is that beer in the keg yet?

 

[mongoose33]

Does your SWMBO know you have grandma's handmade quilt out in your brewcave wrapping kettles? LOL...J/K.

Is that beer in the keg yet?

Heh heh.....

I don't know where I found that quilt. It occupied a space under my workbench for years as a paint drop-cloth, as it isn't quite as good as it looks in that picture. I used it for insulating my mash tun cooler when i did a more traditional mash (i.e., not in a bag).

One day it dawned on me: that quilt could give its life that I might brew in a bag, and thus it was so!

**************

Yesterday was 15 days in the fermenter; I changed the Inkbird temp to 32 degrees last night to cold crash it. Tonite I'll add finings, and maybe Wednesday I'll keg it. Anxious to see how it turns out but there's nothing that would indicate any difficulty. Fermented out just as if I'd done it using the normal mash tun approach, looks the same....

If I keg it Wednesday, I'll force carb it and Thursday will tell the tale.

 

[Morrey]

My bro-in-law asked me this weekend if anyone could readily tell a BIAB beer from a multi vessel beer of the same recipe. I told him I would be surprised there was enough difference to speak of. If the beer you are just finishing in BIAB is one you have made MLT, you would be a good source to speak of differences.

 

[marjen]

OH and is the cover left on during the first part? What about flame? Lower? or turn on only as needed?

 

[Morrey]

OH and is the cover left on during the first part? What about flame? Lower? or turn on only as needed?

Mongoose33 and I both have Blichmann burners on leg extensions. I mention this since these burners are beefy and hold lots of residual heat which helps keep mash temps stable. Your setup may be different so you'll only know once you try it this weekend.

I heat my strike water to a tad over what I want to mash at since the addition of grains lowers temps some. If I wanted to mash at 150F, I would heat to 154F, cut flame off, put my bag in place, add my grain, stir well, cover with kettle lid and wrap with blanket. I will unwrap and stir about halfway thru, then cover and re-wrap. I have never had my temps drop more than 2 degrees, so I never apply more heat. If you see drops of more than 5 degrees, you may want to apply gentle heat. But even in the winter in my outdoor shed, I never see the need to apply more heat. But again, YMMV.

 

[mongoose33]

My bro-in-law asked me this weekend if anyone could readily tell a BIAB beer from a multi vessel beer of the same recipe. I told him I would be surprised there was enough difference to speak of. If the beer you are just finishing in BIAB is one you have made MLT, you would be a good source to speak of differences.

I believe I have a couple bottles from the previous batch (same recipe), mashed in a mash tun. I'll do a comparison.

 

[casualbrewer]

If your grains are milled reasonably fine you will always miss your mash temps this way. As soon as the mash reaches the lowest temp for conversion it will start and by the time you get your mash up to the temp you want for the expected attenuation of the wort, you will have most of the starches converted at the lower temp.

Always start with a calculated strike temp. With care with the calculations, the correct water amount and the grain weight and temperature you will hit your mash temp within one or 2 degrees. If your grains are milled reasonably fine the conversion will be done before the temperature drops enough to notice.

It literally only takes a couple minutes to reach desired temp if you mash in 5 degrees or so below target temp especially if doing full volume as the temp hardly drops at all. All the starches are not going to convert in a few minutes. You can even mash in at your desired temp and it will only fall a couple degrees... With a burner running it will take 2 minutes to come right back. I will personally will mash in around 120 degrees and ramp up my mash temps from there to my desired temps. This does create a more fermentable but I would say only half the starches convert until I get up to my mash temps. Just trying to give the guy a fool proof method for not missing your intended mash temps. Dealing with strike water temps and guessing where it will fall to isn't as reliable.