Thermodynamic Help?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
You are thinking of the really hairy stuff where an engineer needs to know, for example, the distribution of temperature throughout a turbine blade in a jet engine in order to calculate thermal stresses. The basic concepts may apply but the solution of such problems is orders of magnitude more difficult than the solution of this one.

When I took heat transfer we had a problem almost identical to what the original poster had. Except the water of the bath was circulating, and we didn't know the surface temperatures of the buckets, just of the far field ambient temperature which was also along with 50 mph winds.

We had to figure out the surface temperature of the interior bucket.

My answer wasn't even close to correct and I got almost full credit.
 
That's because your cagy prof judged what you had learned from how you attacked the problem, not whether you got the right answer. He wanted to see if you came up with a reasonable model and it appears you did!
 
That's because your cagy prof judged what you had learned from how you attacked the problem, not whether you got the right answer. He wanted to see if you came up with a reasonable model and it appears you did!

I think it's because heat transfer sucks. I have to design conditions for heat exchangers at work all the time, and it's hilarious the safety factors which get thrown into them. But, the labor to come up with accurate conditions is probably more costly than the additional surface area.
 
Thought I'd show one graph based on the more sophisticated model to give insight as to what the effects of finite 'conduction', the production of heat by yeast and the differences in fermenter material might be expected to make. These results are from running an imperfect model and as such should be used to gain insight, not predict actual behavior of real systems.

The assumptions are:

1) 20L Wort in full fermentation at temp 30 °C is placed in a cylindrical fermenter at time t = 0
2) The fermentation produces 0.5 watts/L i.e. 10 watts total heat
3) The volume of the wort in the fermenter has height equal to 3 times its radius
4) The glass fermenter walls are 3 mm thick and the glass has conductivity of 0.58 W/m-K
5) The stainless steel fermenter walls are 1.5 mm thick and the metal has conductivity 80 times that of glass.
6) There is no conduction through the bottom of the fermenter
7) The fermenters sit in a constant temperature water bath at 20°C
8) The thermal coupling between portions of the volume of fermenting beer are 10 times that of conductive coupling alone. This increase is assumed to be due to convection.

The graph shows the temperatures at thee points in the fermenting wort volume
1) On the axis i.e. at the center of the fermenter
2) At the distance from the center which divides the mass of the beer into 2 equal halves. This is 70.7% of the radius
3) At the interior surface of the fermenter wall.

The obvious conclusions are those that I have noted in earlier posts the main one being that the conductivity of the fermenter has a large effect on the time it takes the beer to come to equilibrium and on the equilibrium temperature drop across the fermenter wall.

FermTemps.jpg
 
Back
Top