Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I understand that the preferred packaging for this brew is heavy Belgian or champagne bottles.


My question is whether anyone uses flip-top, ie, Grolsch or E-Z Cap, bottles for their Dark Belgian Strong.


I'm not as concerned about creating bottle bombs as I am about leakage that might occur during the extended bottle conditioning time that these ales require.


Thanks in advance,

~Doc

Just a couple of thoughts. Most of the german ales/lager's that ship in grolsch style bottles are usually lower ABV than Belgian Dark Strong ales so I would be hesitant about the rubber tolerance over time. Since the gaskets, (on my bottles), do not appear to be silicon another concern is the transfer of VOC's to the beer from the breaking down of the rubber. I've been meaning to try a few of our grolsch bottles on a Westy 12 as a test but haven't gotten around to it. It's worth a try as an experiment on one bottle but it would not be a long term storage solution

 

[teamcoaster]

Thanks for the helpful comments.

So, it appears that the flip-tops have the structural integrity to withstand the higher pressure of a Dark Belgian Strong, but there are questions about their use for long term storage.

My grolsch bottles can accept bottle caps, so I looked at removing the hardware and capping them. However, once the hardware was removed, I noticed that the indentations that provide the anchor points for the wires are pretty deep. That caused concerns about whether the bottle necks would hold up under the stress of having the caps applied and/or from the level of carbonation inside the bottle.

I decided to go over to my LHBS to root through their inventory to see what I might find. I discovered that they had several cases of 500 ml Belgian bottles that take standard size bottle caps. When I learned that these bottles have been in their inventory for a long time I gave them an opportunity to discount the price in order to move some product. You could say that I made the proprietor an offer that he could not refuse.

I am now the happy owner of a large supply of half-liter bottles; by Monday, many of them will be filled with delicious goodness, to be put down for a long summer, fall and early winter’s nap.

Thanks again for everyone’s input.

~Doc

 

[LakesideBrewing]

There is a lot of bottling questions on this thread lately which is perfect timing for me! I brewed the single malt recipe on CSI's website and I am ready to bottle it. What is the proper level of carbonation for a Belgian Quad? Depending on what priming calculator I use, I get anywhere from 2.5-3.3. I also don't recall drinking a Quad and thinking that it is as heavily carbonated as a Tripel. Is it? Should it be? I have an abundance of normal 12 oz. bottles that I would love to use but I will not use them with carbonation over 3.0. I also have an abundance of thick 750's, but I'm hesitant on using those because I'm not sure if I want to open a 750 every time I want to sip on a Belgian Quad. Someone tell me what to do!

-Mike

 

[psubrewer]

The recipe on CSIs webpage specifies 2.5 vols so you should be fine with commercial 12oz bottles.

I used mostly SA bottles for mine for that reason, I really only want 12oz at one sitting.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Damn... Now I feel bad. A 750 is a good warmup.... <hiccup>

 

[butterpants]

Quads seem to vary.... Avery's The Reverend is on the lower side and maybe 2.6 or so.... while something like Chimay Blue is closer to 3.0 (sure Blue is technically a Dark Strong but there is no "Quadruple" BJCP catagory and Belgian Specialty is way too vague)

Carb to the levels you enjoy and your delivery containers can support

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

There is a lot of bottling questions on this thread lately which is perfect timing for me! I brewed the single malt recipe on CSI's website and I am ready to bottle it. What is the proper level of carbonation for a Belgian Quad? Depending on what priming calculator I use, I get anywhere from 2.5-3.3. I also don't recall drinking a Quad and thinking that it is as heavily carbonated as a Tripel. Is it? Should it be? I have an abundance of normal 12 oz. bottles that I would love to use but I will not use them with carbonation over 3.0. I also have an abundance of thick 750's, but I'm hesitant on using those because I'm not sure if I want to open a 750 every time I want to sip on a Belgian Quad. Someone tell me what to do!

-Mike

I'd probably mirror butterpants' statement on this. There's a range of CO2 volumes for Quads. The Westvleteren 12 seems to be in the 2.5-2.6 range although it is claimed to be higher.

 

[meadowstream]

There is a lot of bottling questions on this thread lately which is perfect timing for me! I brewed the single malt recipe on CSI's website and I am ready to bottle it. What is the proper level of carbonation for a Belgian Quad? Depending on what priming calculator I use, I get anywhere from 2.5-3.3. I also don't recall drinking a Quad and thinking that it is as heavily carbonated as a Tripel. Is it? Should it be? I have an abundance of normal 12 oz. bottles that I would love to use but I will not use them with carbonation over 3.0. I also have an abundance of thick 750's, but I'm hesitant on using those because I'm not sure if I want to open a 750 every time I want to sip on a Belgian Quad. Someone tell me what to do!

As a general rule, I take a cup of sugar dissolved in ~1 cup of water and add it to a 5 gallon corny and then fill the corny and bottle from the corny. That seems to carb to a level that seems right to my palate.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

There is a fairly good priming calculator with most sugars listed on the Northern Brewer site. They estimate a little on the high side for a slow-aggressive yeast like Westmalle but it is still fairly good:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

At room temp for 5 gallons to 2.5 volumes they recommend 37g/gallon of Candi syrup. We recommend 33g/gallon. I prefer candi syrup for obvious reasons but it is also a natural and direct food source for the priming yeast and does not require the yeast to break it down prior to consuming. This way you don't get residual gravity sweetness added due to unconsumed priming sugar. For a Westy 12 clone choosing each detail makes the results that much better.

 

[LakesideBrewing]

There is a fairly good priming calculator with most sugars listed on the Northern Brewer site. They estimate a little on the high side for a slow-aggressive yeast like Westmalle but it is still fairly good:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

At room temp for 5 gallons to 2.5 volumes they recommend 37g/gallon of Candi syrup. We recommend 33g/gallon. I prefer candi syrup for obvious reasons but it is also a natural and direct food source for the priming yeast and does not require the yeast to break it down prior to consuming. This way you don't get residual gravity sweetness added due to unconsumed priming sugar. For a Westy 12 clone choosing each detail makes the results that much better.

Thanks! Why does it take more candi syrup than most other sugars? (according to the calculator).

 

[Broham1]

At room temp for 5 gallons to 2.5 volumes they recommend 37g/gallon of Candi syrup. We recommend 33g/gallon. I prefer candi syrup for obvious reasons but it is also a natural and direct food source for the priming yeast and does not require the yeast to break it down prior to consuming. This way you don't get residual gravity sweetness added due to unconsumed priming sugar. For a Westy 12 clone choosing each detail makes the results that much better.

Is there any reason not to use D-180 for priming? Your recipe leaves half a pound left over, so I was thinking of just using that.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Is there any reason not to use D-180 for priming? Your recipe leaves half a pound left over, so I was thinking of just using that.

D-180 will work fine for priming. Once I get the ester profile dialed in I like to prime with Simplicity as a preference but any candi syrup will work.

 

[Gixxer]

What a brew day... Amateur mistakes... I forgot to add the lime to my mash until the 30 minute mark... I added the hops at the 120 minute mark (recipe deviation, 120 minute boil, no decoction), I started transferring the wort from the kettle to the bucket without emptying the star san... it was maybe two cups of star san but still... Then I pitched the yeast and buttoned up the bucket in the ferm chamber without getting an OG... I know I am close to my OG... my pre boil gravity was within two points of what BS predicted... Meh, it will still make beer...

 

[tehnick]

What a brew day... Amateur mistakes... I forgot to add the lime to my mash until the 30 minute mark... I added the hops at the 120 minute mark (recipe deviation, 120 minute boil, no decoction), I started transferring the wort from the kettle to the bucket without emptying the star san... it was maybe two cups of star san but still... Then I pitched the yeast and buttoned up the bucket in the ferm chamber without getting an OG... I know I am close to my OG... my pre boil gravity was within two points of what BS predicted... Meh, it will still make beer...

I brewed this again on Saturday and missed pre-boil gravity by 2 points. After adding the D-180 I somehow managed to miss 1.093 and hit 1.086 even though beersmith had me in range. Not sure if I have the D-180 values correct in BS but feel like I should've used 3 lbs at flame out instead of 2 but probably would've overshot target gravity. It will be beer, lol.

My burner died mid brew so I had to scramble to the LHBS and picked up a blichmann so I'd be done with burner drama. Seems it's always something.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

One of the reasons target gravity gets under/overshot is probably due to variations in final volume. Being 32 ounces off, (1 qt), on a 5 gallon batch can throw the FG off by a full 4-5 points (1.085 v. 1.090 v. 1.095).

At 80 minutes into the boil after adjuncts are added we take refractometer readings until we hit target. I use a sterile glass lab dropper to take a tiny sample from the top of the boil. This way the brewer doesn't have to worry about the chilling time for a hydrometer sample and adjusting for temp. You can hit perfect target OG every time .

A good lab refractometer costs from $80 - $120. A handheld can also be purchased cheaply on ebay for around $10-$15.

 

[ultravista]

... to take a tiny sample from the top of the boil.

The top of the boil? I always stir like mad, trying to really mix the wort, and take a sample as far down as my little plastic device will reach.

Doesn't the denser wort settle to the bottom?

 

[rmyurick]

UV, once you have mixed it well & boiled, it's not going to separate-it's a homogeneous solution. Trub will drop out (solids that you want to remove anyway-coagulated proteins & hops).

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

The top of the boil? I always stir like mad, trying to really mix the wort, and take a sample as far down as my little plastic device will reach.

Doesn't the denser wort settle to the bottom?

Yep, after mixing the adjunct....take the sample(s)

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Also keep in mind that the sample is little more than one drop for the prism plate. There is little chance that you'll pick up a glob of protein or trub in a lab dropper. If so, get another dropper sample

 

[FredTheNuke]

A good lab refractometer costs from $80 - $120. A handheld can also be purchased cheaply on ebay for around $10-$15.

Try this - MUCH better in my opinion than a refractometer. Auto temperature compensation and all. I use disposable 5ml pipettes to draw samples from the MLT, BK at pre boil, BK near final and OG from the fermenter.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NX0WHS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[tehnick]

Beersmith mobile sucks. I just populated my info into the desktop version based on my efficiency and actually hit 2 GUs over. If it drops to 1.009 FG, I'll be at 10.5% ABV which is within target. Looks like I'll be recreating my recipes in desktop, placing on the cloud, and pulling them down via mobile on my tablet.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Try this - MUCH better in my opinion than a refractometer. Auto temperature compensation and all. I use disposable 5ml pipettes to draw samples from the MLT, BK at pre boil, BK near final and OG from the fermenter.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002NX0WHS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This is a refractomter. Compensation is a nice feature though. The pipettes are LDPE and not suited for boiling temps. Best not to introduce low thermal plastics, (< 178F), to the boil surface. Use a borosilicate glass dropper.

 

[mrdauber64]

Quick question: I have a vial of Brett Brux that I bought a whole ago and never used, would this beer work to add the Brett to secondary and age for 9 months? I know it won't be the same beer, but I'm hoping the Brett would add a fruityness to it. I've never had the original, so I'm not sure what to expect. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Quick question: I have a vial of Brett Brux that I bought a whole ago and never used, would this beer work to add the Brett to secondary and age for 9 months? I know it won't be the same beer, but I'm hoping the Brett would add a fruityness to it. I've never had the original, so I'm not sure what to expect. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Brett tends to add 'funk and tang' to lambics and reds at higher ferm temps and lower ABVs in a secondary dosing, (90F and < 9% ABV).

The plum/fig palate in the Westy 12 develops via Westmalle yeast interacting with the right balance of sugars over time.

 

[smokinghole]

I think the brux most labs sell is isolated from Orval with its characteristic funk and not so much fruitiness. Fruitiness can be contributed by hops and not necessarily in your face fruity hops. Brett strains have the ability to liberate aroma and flavor molecules that are otherwise bound, but brett can break them apart during long term aging. I have taken bottles of this clone skipped priming sugar, added brett, and let it go until the corks moved against the cages. Then I threw it in the fridge. It was real nice. It's not Westvleteren though but it's damn good beer.

 

[uThaug]

Can someone explain this passage for me?
Decoction Mash, Double
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
10 min Protein Rest Add 32.00 qt of water at 137.5 F 132.0 F
30 min Saccharification Decoct 8.79 qt of mash and boil it 151.0 F ---> does this mean that you take out 8.79qt of the grist and bring it to a boil, and then take it back to the main kettle and let i stay at 151F for 30 minutes? If so, the first step with 10 min @ 132F will be for even longer, thus it takes way longer time to boil the 8.79qt - and for how long should it be boiled?

30 min Saccharification Decoct 4.85 qt of mash and boil it 159.0 F

 

[Holter]

Quick question: I have a vial of Brett Brux that I bought a whole ago and never used, would this beer work to add the Brett to secondary and age for 9 months? I know it won't be the same beer, but I'm hoping the Brett would add a fruityness to it. I've never had the original, so I'm not sure what to expect. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

How long ago is a while? If you are going to let something sit on brett for 9 months it would probably be a good idea to pick up a new vial with fresh yeast considering the cost is so low.

Also, people will point out Brett flavors are not within the style definitions of this beer, especially if you are attempting to clone Westy.

That said, adding brett to a beer like this is an awesome idea if you want to develop some additional complexity. Last year I did a batch of dark strong that for whatever reason wouldnt ferment out past 1.024 after an OG of 1.104. I pitched brett into it which took the beer down to 1.008 over 4 months. I added some corn sugar and racked the beer to champagne bottles. 1 month later the beer had carbed up via the brett and tastes awesome. Now I have 10 more of these champagne bottled brett dark strongs that I am cellaring and its going to become a mainstay in my pipeline of beers.

 

[smokinghole]

Yeast is very resilient especially brett. If the tube is with in a year use it. I got all my souring culture yeasts and bacteria out of lambic bottles and they are voracious.

 

[Holter]

Yeast is very resilient especially brett. If the tube is with in a year use it. I got all my souring culture yeasts and bacteria out of lambic bottles and they are voracious.

I get the idea of culturing and that brett has a longer shelf life, but still if you are using something that can be purchased for less than $10 and pitching it into something that will sit for 9 months, Id place my money with the new purchase rather than the old. I dont see the point.

 

[smokinghole]

I an far from a tightwad when it comes to homebrewing. With that said, and my lab experience with yeast, I see no point in spending the $7 for a new tube. Hell I would advise he buy a bottle of Orval, should be about $5 and cheaper than yeast, drink it, then use the bottle yeast with the tube. It'll work I promise. I dont want to hold anyone back from spending more on yeast though just to be safe.

Also, it wont HAVE to sit for 9 months. I bet the Brett would be done in 5-6. If kept relatively warm even faster.