Belgian Dark Strong Ale The Pious - Westvleteren 12 style quad - multiple

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

My son, who made the syrup, says we should at least rate a dubbel.

Dubbels are normally a little darker than quads on the import side, e.g. visually compare a Westmalle dubbel with a Westvleteren 12. If the picture rendering of the sample is accurate then the color is considerably outside this category of ale and the resulting flavor will be also. You may consider picking up a copy of BLAM (Brew Like a Monk) and adhere more closely to the way the monks brew this ale. Otherwise we're just experimenting around with an unknown ale on an advanced brewing thread, not brewing a Westy 12 clone.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Well I am at Pitched Day 6 beginning with a 2700ml 1.040 starter. OG was 1.088 (a bit on the light side but I was .75 gallon heavy at the end of the boil). Now at 1.028. Made an executive decision to rouse the Yeasties with a wine degasser and switched from blow off tubes to 3 piece airlocks (less backpressure). Temp is stuck at 71F - so a few degrees cold. May heat it tomorrow up to 77F (or at least the chest freezer it is in - now open to the garage at 72F ambient).

WOW - the color of this primary is a deep mahogany brown like I've never brewed before!

At low 70's I've seen Westmalle go to 'sleep' in the latter stages of primary. I like to keep it at the top of the 70's and even up to 80F until it reaches 1 point above FG, (1.013). A degasse rouse is an interesting technique...that's a first

+1

 

[thomascw]

Dubbels are normally a little darker than quads on the import side, e.g. visually compare a Westmalle dubbel with a Westvleteren 12. If the picture rendering of the sample is accurate then the color is considerably outside this category of ale and the resulting flavor will be also. You may consider picking up a copy of BLAM (Brew Like a Monk) and adhere more closely to the way the monks brew this ale. Otherwise we're just experimenting around with an unknown ale on an advanced brewing thread, not brewing a Westy 12 clone.

I will certainly pick up a copy of blam. I know this is was a difficult bew; but was i correct in assuming the lack of color was due to the syrup? Beside doing biab/no chill, i felt like we followed the recipe pretty well. The stout and porter we brewed both got their color from the grain.

 

[Gixxer]

Putting together the measurements for water adjustments to brew on Sunday... I had a smack pack of 3787 that was born on 7 November... Needless to say I was concerned when I didnt get any activity in my starter for the first two steps... I assumed my viability was probably 5%... but on the third step I saw kreusen... So its alive!

 

[tehnick]

Might not hurt to step it again to grow a tad more yeast. You can get away with some under pitching but you'll pay the price in frustration troubleshooting and fixing a stuck fermentation if you under pitch too much. My first attempt got stuck at 1.032 because my starter was too small and I had to grow another from the krausen to get it going again but it took a bit to finish because of the stall.

 

[FredTheNuke]

1.020 and bubbling at 71F. Come on yeasties push!


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[FredTheNuke]

But to quit being stubborn I just connected a 200 watt heater to the ranco controlling my 15cu ft chest freezer with the 3 five gallon westy 12s in it... Heating as we speak.


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[meadowstream]

I will certainly pick up a copy of blam. I know this is was a difficult bew; but was i correct in assuming the lack of color was due to the syrup? Beside doing biab/no chill, i felt like we followed the recipe pretty well. The stout and porter we brewed both got their color from the grain.

Yes, absolutely: all the dark color in this recipe comes from the caramelized syrup.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Yes, absolutely: all the dark color in this recipe comes from the caramelized syrup.

Yep, concur.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

1.020 and bubbling at 71F. Come on yeasties push!


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You're on the home stretch. Good pitch.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Might not hurt to step it again to grow a tad more yeast. You can get away with some under pitching but you'll pay the price in frustration troubleshooting and fixing a stuck fermentation if you under pitch too much. My first attempt got stuck at 1.032 because my starter was too small and I had to grow another from the krausen to get it going again but it took a bit to finish because of the stall.

We've gotten into the same habit too. I know this is a little over the edge but if a vial of Westmalle is more than a couple of months past BUB date I run a "starter-starter" feed it with two periodic shots of O2 and harvest the blow-off krausen for a fresh run. The yeast looks like a light beige snow when its fresh. Starters from this harvested top-crop complete high krausen in about 12 hours. Some very high powered Westmalle.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I will certainly pick up a copy of blam. I know this is was a difficult bew; but was i correct in assuming the lack of color was due to the syrup? Beside doing biab/no chill, i felt like we followed the recipe pretty well. The stout and porter we brewed both got their color from the grain.

Not only the color. The interaction of Belgian yeasts with candi syrup can create remarkable esters. In the case of Westamalle with dark candi syrup you will get plummy dried stone fruit flavors. The adjuncts are crucial to getting this ale correct in both color and palate.

 

[thomascw]

Not only the color. The interaction of Belgian yeasts with candi syrup can create remarkable esters. In the case of Westamalle with dark candi syrup you will get plummy dried stone fruit flavors. The adjuncts are crucial to getting this ale correct in both color and palate.

gotcha, next time we'll either buy the syrup or be sure it's the correct color. My son burned one batch ; so i think that made him a little gun shy. Still think it's going to be a good beer, just not true to style.

Wow, i looked up d2 candi syrup on google images, that stuff is really dark. Ours was not even close, maybe the color of maple syrup.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

gotcha, next time we'll either buy the syrup or be sure it's the correct color. My son burned one batch ; so i think that made him a little gun shy. Still think it's going to be a good beer, just not true to style.

Wow, i looked up d2 candi syrup on google images, that stuff is really dark. Ours was not even close, maybe the color of maple syrup.

Here's saq recommendation (the author of this thread). He recommends D-180 and D-90 (not D2):

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pious-westvleteren-12-style-quad-multiple-147815/index52.html

Best of luck.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Here's a reference pic of a finished/aged Westvleteren 12 clone using saq's D-180 recommended amount. This is about what we're shooting for in color.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

gotcha, next time we'll either buy the syrup or be sure it's the correct color. My son burned one batch ; so i think that made him a little gun shy. Still think it's going to be a good beer, just not true to style.

Wow, i looked up d2 candi syrup on google images, that stuff is really dark. Ours was not even close, maybe the color of maple syrup.

You can also compare how the Traditional Westvleteren 12 clone recipe has grown simpler in grist but more complex in palate:

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_040.pdf

 

[thomascw]

You can also compare how the Traditional Westvleteren 12 clone recipe has grown simpler in grist but more complex in palate:

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_040.pdf

Thanks, I'm ready to try again but i only have one fermentation fridge. That new recipe appears to be quite a bit easier; if I read it correctly.

 

[thomascw]

a little blurry, but as dark as i can get. like making a two hour roux.at least 3 lbs of cane sugar plus 1/2 tsp dap plus water to cool, plus sugar to thicken, etc. definitely darker than amber and not burned

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

a little blurry, but as dark as i can get. like making a two hour roux.at least 3 lbs of cane sugar plus 1/2 tsp dap plus water to cool, plus sugar to thicken, etc. definitely darker than amber and not burned

Good luck on your next test!

 

[thomascw]

Good luck on your next test!

I think it's a little thin. Going to buy some d-180 to compare flavors and viscosity. Will definitely have to measure brix as I add since I have no idea how much sugar I added. I'll compare my syrup's brix to the d-180 too. Probably easier to just buy the right stuff, but it's fun trying

 

[FredTheNuke]

Well I kinda sorta hit the first mark. Racked three 5 gallon batches after about 12 days at 77F (rising from 63F). 1.012, 1.015 and 1.016. I was using the 1.012 as the gauge - it snuck past 1.013 and the other 2 were lagging a bit. Oh well - shouldn't cause too much issue I hope. They are now in fresh buckets and being crashed to 55-57F for 3-4 days. Then it's into fresh carboys and down to 45F. What a beautiful mahogany color! You can smell the booze coming off it super strong, though.

 

[thomascw]

Well I kinda sorta hit the first mark. Racked three 5 gallon batches after about 12 days at 77F (rising from 63F). 1.012, 1.015 and 1.016. I was using the 1.012 as the gauge - it snuck past 1.013 and the other 2 were lagging a bit. Oh well - shouldn't cause too much issue I hope. They are now in fresh buckets and being crashed to 55-57F for 3-4 days. Then it's into fresh carboys and down to 45F. What a beautiful mahogany color! You can smell the booze coming off it super strong, though.

perfect timing. I racked mine to keg(secondary) today. I was hopeful about the color in the bucket. But more like a tripel in the glass

 

[FredTheNuke]

Got that damn CSI bug... Just snagged 6lbs of Brun Fonce and a 2lb carafe of Simplicity.... 15 gallons of Cuvee Van De Keizer Grand Cru is in the lineup... Need to find THAT thread next.

That, the 15 gallons of Westy 12, 5 bottled wine kits and a 37 gallon conical should max out wine cellar..... Until I trade some and drink the rest....

 

[opteek]

Yep, concur.

I'm planning on finally brewing a batch of this wondrous beer in the next week or two. I'm ashamed to say that I've been planning to brew it for the last two years but due to unexpected hardships the opportunity hasn't come. I purchased the D-180 for this recipe around 2 years ago and was wondering on the shelf-stability of the product. It's been stored in a cool, dark place the whole time and I'm guessing it should be all right but I wanted to double check before finally starting this epic brew. Do I need to buy more D-180 or will what I have be just fine?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I'm planning on finally brewing a batch of this wondrous beer in the next week or two. I'm ashamed to say that I've been planning to brew it for the last two years but due to unexpected hardships the opportunity hasn't come. I purchased the D-180 for this recipe around 2 years ago and was wondering on the shelf-stability of the product. It's been stored in a cool, dark place the whole time and I'm guessing it should be all right but I wanted to double check before finally starting this epic brew. Do I need to buy more D-180 or will what I have be just fine?

We state the shelf at 6 months but as long as it's not solid it should be fine. For long term storage you can put it into the freezer for a year, (just not the refrigerator).

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

got that damn csi bug... Just snagged 6lbs of brun fonce and a 2lb carafe of simplicity.... 15 gallons of cuvee van de keizer grand cru is in the lineup... Need to find that thread next.

That, the 15 gallons of westy 12, 5 bottled wine kits and a 37 gallon conical should max out wine cellar..... Until i trade some and drink the rest....

+1

 

[teamcoaster]

I understand that the preferred packaging for this brew is heavy Belgian or champagne bottles.


My question is whether anyone uses flip-top, ie, Grolsch or E-Z Cap, bottles for their Dark Belgian Strong.


I'm not as concerned about creating bottle bombs as I am about leakage that might occur during the extended bottle conditioning time that these ales require.


Thanks in advance,

~Doc

 

[sweetcell]

I'm not as concerned about creating bottle bombs as I am about leakage that might occur during the extended bottle conditioning time that these ales require.

i haven't tried aging in those bottles, but i would be concerned about oxidation too due to the rubber gasket drying out. considering how expensive and time-consuming this beer is, i wouldn't want to risk it.

 

[FredTheNuke]

It would be a good experiment. If you ask EZ-Cap this question here is what they say:

Question: I have dozens of your bottles and enjoy them for bottling my standard homebrews. What is the maximum atmospheres of carbon dioxide that you recommend for your 32 oz bottles? I would like to bottle carbonate a Belgian style beer in them which will reach 3.5 to 4 atmospheres of pressure (almost 60 psi). Normal beer reaches about 3 atm (44 psi).

EZ-Cap answer: Our bottles are tested to around 120 psi that is when the washer pushes out from under the cap and that form a type of pressure release.
But as always use caution when doing the Belgian .
Cheers

 

[sweetcell]

it's not the pressure that is my concern, it's that the rubber gasket can become brittle with time. it can crack and let air in. i have had homebrewed sours that were acetic because too much air snuck past the dried up rubber ring over the course of a year or two. but maybe those gaskets were already old & well used beforehand. perhaps using a new, fresh gasket will last a year or three.