The Patriots Cheated?!?

[RichBrewer]

I can't deny that it bothers me on some level.

Does that mean I won't follow them? Of course not. Does my loyalty as a fan change? Nah. Just means that I'm disappointed.

You need to dump the pats right now! They are a classless scumbag organization!


Ol commish came down onem pretty hard eh?

 

[eriktlupus]

Of course he knew about it, just goes to show how arrogant Bill is getting.

his old buddy charlie's gettin his comeuppance this year!:rockin:

 

[ohiobrewtus]

$500k fine for Belichik, $250k fine for the Patriots.

If the Pats make the playoffs, they will lose one of their first round picks in the 2008 draft (most likely their own 1st round pick, not the one that they acquired from San Francisco).

If they do not make the playoffs, they will lose their 2nd and 3rd round picks in the 2008 draft.

I, personally, think that this isn't enough. If Wade Wilson, the Dallas QB Coach, gets a 5 game suspension for using HGH (A COACH!), then Belichik should have gotten suspended for at least 5 games as well.

 

[the_bird]

Losing a first round pick is pretty severe, and a half-mil will make ANYONE think twice about doing this again. They couldn't make the team forfeit the game (which would have been the ultimate punishment), they were just so clearly the better team than the Jets.

I'm pretty sure the Broncos only lost a third-rounder when they cheated with Elway's contract (which somehow circumvented salary cap rules).

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I'm pretty sure the Broncos only lost a third-rounder when they cheated with Elway's contract (which somehow circumvented salary cap rules).

While both are clearly forms of cheating, I think that what the Pats did is on a whole different level than the Broncos trying to save a few salary cap bucks. Teams are coming up with new ways to push back salary cap money all the time. Option bonuses, NLTBA/LTBA (not likely to be achieved/likely to be achieved) bonuses of rediculous amounts for things such as playing in 20% of the teams plays. These are referred to as 'falling off a log bonuses'. Technically they are not viewed in a good light by the league, but agent and players use them because they can - and they are not illegal.

Trying to save a few bucks on the cap and blatantly cheating even after the commissioner had openly stated to teams to NOT do this are two very different things, imho.

Still, what gets me is that the Pats don't need to do this. They're oen of the top 3, if not THE best team in the league. Silly if you ask me.

 

[the_bird]

Someone made the point....

Bill Belichick is no different than Red Auerbach. Red absolutely would have done every single thing that Belichick is alledged to have done to circumvent (or outright violate) the rules. Things like making sure there WERE dead spots on the floor that the C's could maneuver the opponents to and grab a steal. Making the opposing locker room freezing cold or sweltering hot. Any little advantage that he could, some within the rules, some certainly in the grey area, some more clearly outside.

Does this excuse what Belichick did? Nah - but anyone who is claiming that the Pats' reputation is permantly tarnished needs to remember just how selective our memories truly are. Any dirty tricks employed by Red are now - if not forgotten, effectively dismissed and those teams' true greatness is remembered. In twenty years, no one will remember these charges, they'll remember the Pats as being one of the best, smartest teams of all time.

Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that this will be entirely forgotten before mid-season, brought up only again when the Pats next play the Jets.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Someone made the point....

Bill Belichick is no different than Red Auerbach. Red absolutely would have done every single thing that Belichick is alledged to have done to circumvent (or outright violate) the rules. Things like making sure there WERE dead spots on the floor that the C's could maneuver the opponents to and grab a steal. Making the opposing locker room freezing cold or sweltering hot. Any little advantage that he could, some within the rules, some certainly in the grey area, some more clearly outside.

Does this excuse what Belichick did? Nah - but anyone who is claiming that the Pats' reputation is permantly tarnished needs to remember just how selective our memories truly are. Any dirty tricks employed by Red are now - if not forgotten, effectively dismissed and those teams' true greatness is remembered. In twenty years, no one will remember these charges, they'll remember the Pats as being one of the best, smartest teams of all time.

Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that this will be entirely forgotten before mid-season, brought up only again when the Pats next play the Jets.

I agree with you. In my mind this doesn't tarnish his reputation as a coach one bit. You are probably right that this will soon be forgotten about.

I just think that as hard as the commisioner has come down on on players and even other coaches since he's been the commish, he should have made an example out of Belichik. $500k is squat when you've made $5+ mill a year for the last 5 years.

 

[Cheesefood]

$500k is squat when you've made $5+ mill a year for the last 5 years.

That's $3mm after taxes.
That's $2.55mm after paying your accountant and attorney a combined 15%
So $500,000 is 20% of his salary for a year. Yeah, that's a big deal.

Still, did you guys hear about the $100mm fine handed down to the racing team that stole Ferrari's secrets?

 

[the_bird]

Don't forget how much his ex-wife (I think the divorce is official) has taken of that salary!

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Don't forget how much his ex-wife (I think the divorce is official) has taken of that salary!

Not to mention how much money he spent on the married girlfriend that he's had for a couple of years now!

 

[TheJadedDog]

Hell, I'll go out on a limb and say that this will be entirely forgotten before mid-season, brought up only again when the Pats next play the Jets.

Not if they suddenly start losing or if Brady starts getting sacked all the time, then it will linger.

Personally I think the punishment was just and harsh. If you gave Bill the choice between being suspended for a game or two or losing draft picks, he would have chosen to be suspended. The draft picks hurt the team way more than any suspension would and for a longer period of time.

 

[jdoiv]

If you gave Bill the choice between being suspended for a game or two or losing draft picks, he would have chosen to be suspended. The draft picks hurt the team way more than any suspension would and for a longer period of time.

I don't buy this. The rumor is that Bill this may be Bill's last year with the Pats. I don't think the draft picks really concern him if he's not going to be around next year. I think a suspension in line with the one the Cowboys quarterback coach got (5 games) would have sent a better message. Take him out of the picture for 5 weeks and keep him away from the office would have done serious damage to the Pats over the next few games and leveled the playing field so to say.

Now do the draft picks hurt the team, yes they do. But if Bill isn't around and he was the one breaking the rules, it doesn't really punish the offender.

 

[the_bird]

I don't buy the rumors that this is Belichick's last year. People have been saying that because of the huge amount of talent they accumilated over the winter, but all the players they brought in had a pretty modest cap impact - deals that won't really blow up in future years. This wasn't going out and overpaying for every free agent. Hell, if he was only concerned about this year, he would have signed Asante Samuel to a deal months ago.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I don't think anyone but Belichick and Bob Kraft know whether or not he'll be back. Heck, no one even knows what his salary is or when his contract ends.

 

[mr x]

No suspension. What a joke. Hang Michael Vick for behavior unbecoming, and Belichek gets nothing. Sad.

 

[Boston]

No suspension. What a joke. Hang Michael Vick for behavior unbecoming, and Belichek gets nothing. Sad.

Unbecoming behavior? Get real, Vick violated federal statutes. FELONIES!

No animals were harmed in the filming of the Jet's bench.

 

[mr x]

So what. I drop live lobsters in a pot and then eat them. Nobody hassles me about it.

Hollis Thomas got suspended because his doctor prescribed inhaler (which helps keep him alive) contained a banned substance, even though it was pretty clear that was what the purpose was.

And Belichek cheats outright and gets nothing.....

 

[Beerrific]

So what. I drop live lobsters in a pot and then eat them. Nobody hassles me about it.

Lobsters feel pain in a completely different way than dogs (or mammals in general). There is no comparison.

 

[mr x]

I seen lots of things die that aren't mammals, and it doesn't always look pretty to me. I think the comparison is closer than you may think, but people will believe what they want....

 

[olllllo]

From Gregg Easterbrook:

This weekend, in an e-mail exchange with NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, I asked twice whether the Patriots' documents contained evidence of cheating in the Super Bowl, and Aiello twice declined to either confirm or deny the existence of such evidence. The first time, he changed the subject with a detailed response about the original penalty; and the second time, after I protested he hadn't answered my questions, he replied, "I did answer your questions to the extent I'm going to answer them."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/070925&sportCat=nfl

Interesting.

 

[olllllo]

More here:

Here is a timeline of events so far:

Sunday, Sept. 9: During the Patriots-Jets season opener, security officers seize a video camera a team official on the New England sideline was using to film signal-calling on the New York sideline. NFL rules forbid filming the opponents' sideline or recording opponents' signal calling. Clubs had been reminded of this prohibition by a strongly worded directive sent from league headquarters in September 2006.


Thursday, Sept. 13: Commissioner Goodell declares the Patriots guilty of "a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field." He imposes on New England the strongest penalty in NFL history: loss of a first-round pick (if the Pats make the playoffs), or second- and third-round choices in the 2008 draft (if New England fails to reach the postseason); a $500,000 personal fine against Belichick; and a $250,000 club fine. Goodell orders the Patriots to turn over all videotapes and other materials obtained in violation of NFL rules, although this part of his decision is not publicly announced.



Sunday morning, Sept. 16: On ESPN, Chris Mortensen reports Goodell's directive that the Patriots surrender all videotapes and notes containing cheating materials.



Sunday evening, Sept. 16: On NBC's "Football Night in America," Goodell says New England has not yet complied with his order to surrender all illegal materials, adding the Patriots will be penalized more if the materials don't arrive soon.



Monday, Sept. 17: Asked whether he will surrender videotapes and notes to the league, Belichick answers, "Of course." Asked by The Boston Globe whether NFL headquarters has received the Patriots' materials, Aiello answers, "We don't have anything else on the matter to report right now."



Sometime between Monday night, Sept. 17, and Thursday afternoon, Sept. 20: The New England materials arrive at league headquarters.



Thursday night, Sept. 20: The NFL announces all of the Patriots' materials have been destroyed, disclosing nothing about their contents.



The history of scandals teaches us that when the point is reached that everything has come out, then the principals apologize in public and tell all. When the point has not yet been reached that everything has come out, there is usually stonewalling, denial and weird Nixonian/Clintonesque statements. The destruction of evidence and the lack of answers about what the evidence contained, leaves me wondering if there is something very important about the Patriots' spying scandal that has not yet come out.

 

[mr x]

I can't believe they destroyed the evidence. Why on earth would you do that?

 

[Dude]

Isn't this cheating too?

Colvin, 30, left the 31-28 victory over the Eagles and did not return. Although the announcement was that he had a foot injury, it appeared trainers were working on his arm.
"It was announced as a foot? Then we'll leave it with that announcement," coach Bill Belichick said Monday, according to the transcript of the news conference released by the team. "Was that what [we] announced? If that's what [we] announced, then we'll stand by that announcement."

IMHO, from what I know about the NFL policy on reporting injuries, Belicheat might as well go back to making video tapes of hand signals. This is as blatant cheating as that was. How does the league not do anything about this?

 

[the_bird]

Isn't this cheating too?




IMHO, from what I know about the NFL policy on reporting injuries, Belicheat might as well go back to making video tapes of hand signals. This is as blatant cheating as that was. How does the league not do anything about this?

Who cares? He's out for the season (placed him on IR today and activated Troy Brown), what difference does it make?

 

[Dude]

Who cares? He's out for the season (placed him on IR today and activated Troy Brown), what difference does it make?

It is the principle. Why say it was one thing originally, and then go back on that? It is just shady.

Of course I wouldn't expect anything less from Beliweasel.

 

[the_bird]

.... weak...

 

[Dude]

.... weak...

No, it isn't. I brought it up because it isn't the first time it has happened. Here are 2 other occurences:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2003/11/05/nfl_is_asking_about_seymour/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9767556/page/2/

He tiptoes the line of cheating and gets away with it.

 

[Evan!]

Damn, I had no idea Cheatichek was all smoke-and-mirrors with the injury reports too. That's effed up. No matter how you feel towards the pats, there's obviously some ethical issues within that organization that need to be addressed, whether it be by the league or by the front office.

 

[Soulive]

Belichick just got caught and others haven't. That's about the only thing separating him from 90% of the other coaches. Well, that and his unbeatable team...

 

[Evan!]

Belichick just got caught and others haven't. That's about the only thing separating him from 90% of the other coaches. Well, that and his unbeatable team...

I suppose that makes it okay then...