American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[TwitchellBrew]

I finally got around to brewing one of these. Been about 5 years since I’ve brewed a clear ipa. Recipe:
1.066 to 1.009, 7.5 abv, 5 gallons
56 ibu
water:
107 ca, 25 na, 53 cl, 140 so4
93 percent rahr 2 row
7 percent carafoam
0.25 oz Nelson for 60 mins
1 oz each Nelson and mosaic at 10
2 oz mosaic, 1 oz Nelson at whirlpool (180 degree)
4 oz mosaic, 3 oz Nelson dry hop
Bry-97 at 66 for 3 days and ramped to 70. Dry hopped at 70 for 4 days. I usually drop yeast and dry hop cold but was running with Vinny’s advice here.
Really came together after 2 weeks in the keg. Overall I love this beer. My wife who mainly drinks hazys said it’s amazing as well. Potential improvements: I really like the water and ibu here. I think it can handle a slightly higher dry hop. Id like to add strata in here as well and see how that goes, I just didn’t have any. Also would like to try biofine. This was gelatin fined and the clarity isn’t quite where I want it.

 

[Dgallo]

I finally got around to brewing one of these. Been about 5 years since I’ve brewed a clear ipa. Recipe:
1.066 to 1.009, 7.5 abv, 5 gallons
56 ibu
water:
107 ca, 25 na, 53 cl, 140 so4
93 percent rahr 2 row
7 percent carafoam
0.25 oz Nelson for 60 mins
1 oz each Nelson and mosaic at 10
2 oz mosaic, 1 oz Nelson at whirlpool (180 degree)
4 oz mosaic, 3 oz Nelson dry hop
Bry-97 at 66 for 3 days and ramped to 70. Dry hopped at 70 for 4 days. I usually drop yeast and dry hop cold but was running with Vinny’s advice here.
Really came together after 2 weeks in the keg. Overall I love this beer. My wife who mainly drinks hazys said it’s amazing as well. Potential improvements: I really like the water and ibu here. I think it can handle a slightly higher dry hop. Id like to add strata in here as well and see how that goes, I just didn’t have any. Also would like to try biofine. This was gelatin fined and the clarity isn’t quite where I want it.

I just brewed one on Sunday with Nelson, Mosiac, and strata. Great combo I’ve done a few time. I personally think biofine is better for clarity and easier to use. I dryhop at about 2oz per gallon and I think that’s the sweet spot for getting bold character that you can still pick out individual hop varieties

I’ve been brewing hazys for about 10 years now pretty religiously and now I’m all about brewing clear modern and old school west coast IPAs

 

[Broothru]

I just brewed one on Sunday with Nelson, Mosiac, and strata. Great combo I’ve done a few time. I personally think biofine is better for clarity and easier to use. I dryhop at about 2oz per gallon and I think that’s the sweet spot for getting bold character that you can still pick out individual hop varieties

I’ve been brewing hazys for about 10 years now pretty religiously and now I’m all about brewing clear modern and old school west coast IPAs

Coming back into the light, leaving the Dark Side behind....

Welcome Back!

 

[ihavenonickname]

Dry hopped at 70 for 4 days. I usually drop yeast and dry hop cold but was running with Vinny’s advice here.

Yeah I go back and forth on which method I like more for this style. Cold and short definately seems like the way to go for hazy but I’m still holding onto the idea that warm fermentation dry hops with a point or two left could be better (so many pros do this for west coast ipa), more sweet hop character perhaps and dries out more which I’m all about. @Dgallo have you played around with it much? I think if you’re gonna dry hop these beers cold you definitely have to plan the recipe for it to get the FG down low before the DH.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Yeah I go back and forth on which method I like more for this style. Cold and short definately seems like the way to go for hazy but I’m still holding into the idea that warm fermentation dry hops with a point or two left could be better, more hop character perhaps and dries out more which I’m all about. @Dgallo have you played around with it much? I think if you’re gonna dry hop these beers cold you definitely barley have to plan the recipe for it to get the FG down low before the DH.

@ihavenonickname I did exactly that, (DH cold, the Scott Janish method). I based my current beer off your recipe in your initial post - 71.5% Barke Pilsner 28.5% 2-row. Hopped with Citra and Bru-1 and fermented with CS Cali. OG 1.060, FG 1.007. Surprised it went so low, and so fast, as it hit FG in 4 days, though I left it in the fermenter for 9 more days after hitting FG.

Hopping schedule was @ 20 mins with Citra and Bru-1 T90, WP with Citra hop hash and Bru-1 T90. Mid fermentation with 20g of Bru-1 Spectrum. Estimated IBU's were 46 per BS3. Post fermentation I did a slow, 4 1/2 day cold crash from 65°to 48° then took a gravity sample to verify my Rapt Pill FG number. The smell and taste was phenomenal, absolutely the most hop forward beer I've brewed to date. I'm thinking a lot of that is due to the Spectrum addition. I then dry hopped it (or I guess that might be considered a second dh), with Citra and Bru-1 T90 pellets. After DHing I gave the keg a shake and stuck it in the keezer at 37°F. Pulled it out of the keezer twice today, morning and afternoon, for a good shake. I'll do the same one more time Wednesday morning, and then transfer to the serving keg Wednesday night. I'll hit it with some Biofine and leave it on the gas at 12psi for a couple weeks. Hopefully it clears as it was quite hazy last night, but tasted delicious!!

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I go back and forth on which method I like more for this style. Cold and short definately seems like the way to go for hazy but I’m still holding onto the idea that warm fermentation dry hops with a point or two left could be better (so many pros do this for west coast ipa), more sweet hop character perhaps and dries out more which I’m all about. @Dgallo have you played around with it much? I think if you’re gonna dry hop these beers cold you definitely have to plan the recipe for it to get the FG down low before the DH.

With this style, I have done it both ways and get good results with both (hazy IPAs I’m always soft crashing and dryhoping cold). That said I think the cooler dryhop after soft crashing gives you a brighter aroma and flavor. The warmer dryhop without crashing seems to come off a bit lighter and the biofine seems to strip a little more character. I’m assuming it’s because the yeast are being attracted to the hop compounds when the yeast are present and active and they drop out together with the biofine. But again this is only anecdotal

 

[Shenanigans]

I think it also depends on what type of hops you are using in the dry hop.
Before I ever knew anything about hop burn I brewed a Stone Enjoy By clone with 100g each of Galaxy and Nelson in the dry hop.
Dry hopping near the end of fermentation at room temperature.
It was undrinkable due to hop burn even after a few months, maybe now that I know what caused it I would figure out how to clear it up a bit quicker but prevention is always better than cure

Later I brewed a similar beer, cold crashed before dry hopping and there was zero hop burn.

To save effort and time I would still dry hop without cold crash if I knew the hops were not prime candidates for hop burn.

 

[TwitchellBrew]

Yeah I go back and forth on which method I like more for this style. Cold and short definately seems like the way to go for hazy but I’m still holding onto the idea that warm fermentation dry hops with a point or two left could be better (so many pros do this for west coast ipa), more sweet hop character perhaps and dries out more which I’m all about. @Dgallo have you played around with it much? I think if you’re gonna dry hop these beers cold you definitely have to plan the recipe for it to get the FG down low before the DH.

I did wait until terminal to dry hop (I think I dry hopped day 8) but I feel that Chico almost always throws a decent amount of diacetyl after dry hopping. This one took about 5 days to clear up. Even then I was still scared to crash haha. I’m hyper sensitive to diacetyl. What I like about a cool dry hop is that I almost never worry about hop creep and you don’t seem to get those nasty bi products. I think next time I’ll try dry hopping cool to compare character.

 

[Dgallo]

I did wait until terminal to dry hop (I think I dry hopped day 8) but I feel that Chico almost always throws a decent amount of diacetyl after dry hopping. This one took about 5 days to clear up. Even then I was still scared to crash haha. I’m hyper sensitive to diacetyl. What I like about a cool dry hop is that I almost never worry about hop creep and you don’t seem to get those nasty bi products. I think next time I’ll try dry hopping cool to compare character.

what does your fermentation schedule and dryhop temp look like? I’ve had pretty good luck avoiding diacetyl over the years.

if you like Chico a lot, omega makes a DKO version of it. Then you don’t have to worry about VDK precursors at any point.

https://omegayeast.com/yeast/ales/west-coast-i-plus

 

[TwitchellBrew]

what does your fermentation schedule and dryhop temp look like? I’ve had pretty good luck avoiding diacetyl over the years.

if you like Chico a lot, omega makes a DKO version of it. Then you don’t have to worry about VDK precursors at any point.

https://omegayeast.com/yeast/ales/west-coast-i-plusView attachment 872046

I normally crash and dry hop cool (55 degrees) but for this was I fermenting at 66 for 3 days then slow increase to 70. Dry hopped on day 8 at 70 for 5 days. No diacetyl but I taste it all the time in commercial ipa and in the past I’ve run into it when packaging too quick after dry hop. I almost never use Chico these days but I feel like I may be brewing this style more frequently after this batch. Id love to try the dko strains but I live in Florida and don’t buy liquid online unless it’s like January.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I havnt used any of these knockout yeasts (they seems great tho) but my understanding is it’s the same as adding ALDC at yeast pitch? Have you tried ALDC? It’s pretty amazing, I’m using it for every hoppy beer pretty much

 

[TwitchellBrew]

I havnt used any of these knockout yeasts (they seems great tho) but my understanding is it’s the same as adding ALDC at yeast pitch? Have you tried ALDC? It’s pretty amazing, I’m using it for every hoppy beer pretty much

I’ve heard enough about it on the CBB podcast to know that I should try it. Are there any negatives outside of cost?

 

[Broothru]

I normally crash and dry hop cool (55 degrees) but for this was I fermenting at 66 for 3 days then slow increase to 70. Dry hopped on day 8 at 70 for 5 days. No diacetyl but I taste it all the time in commercial ipa and in the past I’ve run into it when packaging too quick after dry hop. I almost never use Chico these days but I feel like I may be brewing this style more frequently after this batch. Id love to try the dko strains but I live in Florida and don’t buy liquid online unless it’s like January.

You had me at “DKO.”

I tried the “Bayern+” yeast when it first came out and was very favorably impressed. I went a slightly different route, however, and started using ALDC enzyme in all my batches, pitching an ‘eye-dropper full’ (new scientific unit of measurement) at yeast pitch, thereby not being limited to Omega yeasts only.

The downside of ALDC is its cost ($30 per ounce), but one ounce will treat 30-35 batches. Since the DKO yeasts from Omega are about $1 more expensive than non-DKO yeasts, the cost is about equal.

The benefits of ALDC/DKO are no diacetyl coupled with stronger more attenuated fermentations, plus greatly reduced lagering or conditioning times, as little as one week for lagers, with no degradation in finished quality.

I’ve used ALDC in ale and lagers, pressurized and unpressurized, warm and cold fermentations with noticeable improvement in all the brews. It’s really an impressive addition to the brewing toolbox.

 

[TwitchellBrew]

You had me at “DKO.”

I tried the “Bayern+” yeast when it first came out and was very favorably impressed. I went a slightly different route, however, and started using ALDC enzyme in all my batches, pitching an ‘eye-dropper full’ (new scientific unit of measurement) at yeast pitch, thereby not being limited to Omega yeasts only.

The downside of ALDC is its cost ($30 per ounce), but one ounce will treat 30-35 batches. Since the DKO yeasts from Omega are about $1 more expensive than non-DKO yeasts, the cost is about equal.

The benefits of ALDC/DKO are no diacetyl coupled with stronger more attenuated fermentations, plus greatly reduced lagering or conditioning times, as little as one week for lagers, with no degradation in finished quality.

I’ve used ALDC in ale and lagers, pressurized and unpressurized, warm and cold fermentations with noticeable improvement in all the brews. It’s really an impressive addition to the brewing toolbox.

Yeah the funny thing is that I love buttery Chardonnay which (after researching) is actually oak and diacetyl combined. Can’t stand it in beer. I don’t consider 1 dollar per batch extra a negative in the least. So I’m definitely going to try to purchase some. TBH I haven’t up to this point because I sort of considered it cheating but also didn’t know it was available on homebrew scale.

 

[DuncB]

The pros are using the aldc at yeast pitch and another dose with the dry hop.

 

[Broothru]

Yeah the funny thing is that I love buttery Chardonnay which (after researching) is actually oak and diacetyl combined. Can’t stand it in beer. I don’t consider 1 dollar per batch extra a negative in the least. So I’m definitely going to try to purchase some. TBH I haven’t up to this point because I sort of considered it cheating but also didn’t know it was available on homebrew scale.

I believe the “buttery” as a descriptor relates more to mouthfeel than taste. I, too, like a well-oaked Chardonnay, though SWMBO’d does not, and she’s the wine steward for our particular cellar.

 

[LCBA]

Planning a semi-modern west coaster this week as a sort of “freezer clean out.”

I’ll be using 34/70, but I was wondering what temperatures people have had success with. It seems like the low 60s is common?

For water, I’m thinking 200:50 SO4:CL, starting with RO. Would you treat the PH similarly to how you would a NEIPA? Generally I’m targeting 5.2 in the mash, adjust down to 5.0 post boil.

 

[ihavenonickname]

My tip for 34/70 in hoppy beers is to let it ride 60 to 65 without hesitation and definitely be careful about adding pressure I find more than a few psi and it will hold on to more sulfur than I like in hoppy beers, it can really stand out if you dont let it blow off.

Also I’ve been burned by galaxy too many times to be willing to use that much of it in any beer for the last few years… but maybe you’ve got some good galaxy or know something I don’t! So the galaxy and the sulfate make me think it could be a little harsh but I really appreciate that could just be a matter of taste. Your pH plan is great. I’ve really liked my hoppy beers when I get pH down to 5 into the fermenter.

 

[LCBA]

My tip for 34/70 in hoppy beers is to let it ride 60 to 65 without hesitation and definitely be careful about adding pressure I find more than a few psi and it will hold on to more sulfur than I like in hoppy beers, it can really stand out if you dont let it blow off.

Also I’ve been burned by galaxy too many times to be willing to use that much of it in any beer for the last few years… but maybe you’ve got some good galaxy or know something I don’t! So the galaxy and the sulfate make me think it could be a little harsh but I really appreciate that could just be a matter of taste. Your pH plan is great. I’ve really liked my hoppy beers when I get pH down to 5 into the fermenter.

Thanks for the tips! I’ve only brewed with 34/70 once before and it definitely had more sulphur than I cared for. I’ll keep it unpressurized for longer than I normally do and see if that helps.

Totally understand the galaxy comments. I’ve got a hodge podge of bags of it, different years, each with 2-4oz per bag, so I figured I just get it all used up in one batch. Maybe I’ll consider dropping the water down to 150:50 to help a bit.

 

[anteater8]

Gonna give this style a whirl next week! I'm starting with OP's recipe and making some small adjustments, mainly going 50:50 Citra:Nelson for the hops. I also keep going back and forth on the IBUs... One of my best WCIPAs was 1.066 --> 1.007 (7.7%) and 74 IBU, but it also had a half pound of C40 in it for sweetness. For my Modern WCIPA, I'm thinking of going up to 63 IBU to find a middle ground that works with the lighter grain bill.

10.75 lb Pils
4.25 lb 2 row

0.4 oz Warrior 60 min (16 IBU)
2 oz Citra 15 min (37 IBU)
2 oz Nelson whirlpool (5 IBU)
2 oz Citra whirlpool (5 IBU)
2 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Citra lupomax dry hop
4 oz Nelson dry hop

Imperial Flagship

110:40 sulfate:chloride

Target O.G. = 1.063

 

[Dgallo]

Just wanted to share some info for some folks.I was gifted a sample pack of Abstrax from a pro buddy for me to test for him since they are too small in volume for him to use on a 5 bbl batch. For those not familiar with their products, they are water soluble and flowable hop extracts that perfect a hop variety by building back the terpene profile . https://abstraxhops.com/

I plan on using the Quantum Mosaic and Omni Mosiac in my current west coast when it’s time to keg it. I plan on using biofine so I reached out to the company and they told me that the product won’t bind to biofine so it will the character will not be affected. I know it’s becoming popular so I wanted to share that info in this thread.

 

[Broothru]

Just wanted to share some info for some folks.I was gifted a sample pack of Abstrax from a pro buddy for me to test for him since they are too small in volume for him to use on a 5 bbl batch. For those not familiar with their products, they water soluble and flowable hop extracts that perfect a hop variety by building back the terpene profile . https://abstraxhops.com/

I plan on using the Quantum Mosaic and Omni Mosiac in my current west coast when it’s time to keg it. I plan on using biofine so I reached out to the company and they told me that the product won’t bind to biofine so it will the character will not be affected. I know it’s becoming popular so I wanted to share that info in this thread. View attachment 872304

Interesting. I’ve seen the ads and wondered how the (apparently) synthetic produced hop oils compare with ‘nature’s own’. Maybe they’ll get rid of the diesel taste folks seem to find in Nelson Savin in addition to hop creep from biotransformation.

Most of what I’ve read has focused on reducing/eliminating the vegetal load and losses during production, which is a large factor in commercial brewing though less so for us homebrewers.

 

[Dgallo]

Interesting. I’ve seen the ads and wondered how the (apparently) synthetic produced hop oils compare with ‘nature’s own’. Maybe they’ll get rid of the diesel taste folks seem to find in Nelson Savin in addition to hop creep from biotransformation.

Most of what I’ve read has focused on reducing/eliminating the vegetal load and losses during production, which is a large factor in commercial brewing though less so for us homebrewers.

Yeah I’m really excited to use them. The Mosiac Omni smells incredible like the best mosaic I’ve ever smelt. It truly smells like real hops too.

I think Technically they aren’t synthetic, they are terpenes that’s are extracted from hops and other botanicals. Might be why it’s presenting so well

 

[mrcastellino]

Yeah I’m really excited to use them. The Mosiac Omni smells incredible like the best mosaic I’ve ever smelt. It truly smells like real hops too.

I think Technically they aren’t synthetic, they are terpenes that’s are extracted from hops and other botanicals. Might be why it’s presenting so well

I believe the quantum series is a direct hop extraction whereas the omni is a formulated terpene mix intended to match the terpene profile of that particular hop variety.

I know some of the big names with west coast hoppy beers have been using them such as Northpark and Greencheek. I would like to try them as well as it seems like a great way to add an extra punch to the beer once in the keg.

I did have a northpark beer with abstrax used (in addition to t-90, etc.) and it was good…although admittedly it didnt present itself as anything above and beyond from their other beers without it.

If enough homebrewers get their hands on them then hopefully we can share our experiences and dial in best practices with them.

 

[Dgallo]

I believe the quantum series is a direct hop extraction whereas the omni is a formulated terpene mix intended to match the terpene profile of that particular hop variety.

That’s exactly correct. I was just stating that they aren’t synthetic, the terpenes added back were naturally produced by other botanicals. Just a semantic thing. People tend to have a negative perception of synthetic products so I was just clarifying.

What I’m gathering from a few of the pros I know that have used it is that it’s great for aroma, but in heavily dryhoped beers, it doesn’t seem to increase flavor that much, but it does showcase a clean and variety specific profile

 

[mrcastellino]

That’s exactly correct. I was just stating that they aren’t synthetic, the terpenes added back were naturally produced by other botanicals. Just a semantic thing. People tend to have a negative perception of synthetic products so I was just clarifying.

What I’m gathering from a few of the pros I know that have used it is that it’s great for aroma, but in heavily dryhoped beers, it doesn’t seem to increase flavor that much, but it does showcase a clean and variety specific profile

Just curious if you have heard any preference for the omni vs. quantum.

Cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

Just curious if you have heard any preference for the omni vs. quantum.

Cheers!

I didn’t ask that but I can. I will say that I gave both the mosaic quantum and the mosaic Omni. Both vials smell great but the Omni smells absolutely beautiful

 

[Fergal]

Just wanted to share some info for some folks.I was gifted a sample pack of Abstrax from a pro buddy for me to test for him since they are too small in volume for him to use on a 5 bbl batch. For those not familiar with their products, they water soluble and flowable hop extracts that perfect a hop variety by building back the terpene profile . https://abstraxhops.com/

I plan on using the Quantum Mosaic and Omni Mosiac in my current west coast when it’s time to keg it. I plan on using biofine so I reached out to the company and they told me that the product won’t bind to biofine so it will the character will not be affected. I know it’s becoming popular so I wanted to share that info in this thread. View attachment 872304

Great info. I wish you had posted this a week ago though as I was pondering that exact question. I used a 5ml vial of Abstrax woody citrus in a red ipa I kegged last week. I added it with biofine at kegging (purged etc) but hedged my bets and used a half dose of biofine. The beer is a bit like dirty dishwater but smells great

 

[TwitchellBrew]

I thought it was funny (scary) that this article popped up on my instagram right after I made the post about aldc and dko yeasts. But it’s a good read anyways. https://berkeleyyeast.com/blogs/the...file-For-ALDC-Explanation&utm_id=Tap+Bio+ALDC

 

[Dgallo]

I thought it was funny (scary) that this article popped up on my instagram right after I made the post about aldc and dko yeasts. But it’s a good read anyways. https://berkeleyyeast.com/blogs/the...file-For-ALDC-Explanation&utm_id=Tap+Bio+ALDC

IYou always have to take studies conducted by the company that’s marketing the product with a grain of salt. I need to read it in more detail but one look at that graph makes me think there was some manipulation of the data. ALDC literally makes it impossible for yeast to create diacetyl. So the fact that the ALDC added at knock out spiked up at dryhoping only seems sketchy (added at dryhoping I could see could cause a spike if it’s not harmoniously mixed or given enough time to be metabolized by the yeast)

I don’t doubt their gmo yeast is effective, I just think they could be manipulating data for marketing purposes