American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[TwitchellBrew]

OP mentioned BRY97, anybody else having success with that yeast?

I’ve used it recently and it performed very well. Easily the best WC ipa I’ve ever made but that is also because I haven’t made one in years and my process is much better now. I think I saw a post somewhere from @Northern_Brewer that showed it was a Chico derivative and that tracks with my experience. I used the pitch calculator on the lallemand website and experienced zero lag whatsoever.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve used it recently and it performed very well. Easily the best WC ipa I’ve ever made but that is also because I haven’t made one in years and my process is much better now. I think I saw a post somewhere from @Northern_Brewer that showed it was a Chico derivative and that tracks with my experience. I used the pitch calculator on the lallemand website and experienced zero lag whatsoever.

If I recall correctly, I don’t believe 97 is a direct descendant of the Chico family but they share similar lineage. Either way it certainly performs similarly. Good attenuation, clean profile, and probably a better floccuator than Chico

I don’t personally use 97 as I feel it accentuates the bitterness with more sharpness than 05 or 34/70 does

 

[TwitchellBrew]

If I recall correctly, I don’t believe 97 is a direct descendant of the Chico family but they share similar lineage. Either way it certainly performs similarly. Good attenuation, clean profile, and probably a better floccuator than Chico

I don’t personally use 97 as I feel it accentuates the bitterness with more sharpness than 05 or 34/70 does

I agree with you regarding the bitterness of bry-97 vs us05 but I actually enjoyed the bitterness for this style. I did find the sequencing. Bry-97 is genetically almost identical to wlp001 and wyeast 1056

 

[Dgallo]

I agree with you regarding the bitterness of bry-97 vs us05 but I actually enjoyed the bitterness for this style. I did find the sequencing. Bry-97 is genetically almost identical to wlp001 and wyeast 1056
View attachment 875736

I wasn’t claiming they aren’t related or share lineage, just that they are not direct descendants of one another. Looking at genome sequencing only gives you part of the picture, it will show shared ancestry but minuscule differences, like 4-5% have drastic differences on species. Take the great apes and human sequencing for example. certainly shows common ancestry, but as we know there are quite a bit of difference between them

Regardless, I agree they perform similarly and are closely related, can use them interchangeably and based on your preference

 

[TwitchellBrew]

I wasn’t claiming they aren’t related or share lineage, just that they are not direct descendants of one another. Looking at genome sequencing only gives you part of the picture, it will show shared ancestry but minuscule differences, like 4-5% have drastic differences on species. Take the great apes and human sequencing for example. certainly shows common ancestry, but as we know there are quite a bit of difference between them
View attachment 875815

Regardless, I agree they perform similarly and are closely related, can use them interchangeably and based on your preference

Interesting point! And I hope you don’t think I was being argumentative. I was just posting the info that led me to believe it was a Chico yeast. Much of this stuff of over my head tbh but I do find it fascinating. Here’s the link to the original post, it’s a pretty good read imo:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/from-the-lab-family-tree-of-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2

 

[Dgallo]

Interesting point! And I hope you don’t think I was being argumentative. I was just posting the info that led me to believe it was a Chico yeast. Much of this stuff of over my head tbh but I do find it fascinating. Here’s the link to the original post, it’s a pretty good read imo:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/from-the-lab-family-tree-of-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2

Oh no I didn’t feel like you were. We both were just sharing knowledge!

 

[elproducto]

So just for fun I had Chat GPT create me a WCIPA with Citra/Nelson/Strata.

Dammit if it isn't one of the best IPAs I've made in 18 years of brewing! It hits all the notes of a beer I love.

Only change I would make is increasing the dry hop. The malt bill is perfect.

A.I.P.A

 

[Fergal]

Anyone else using the cellar science yeast? In my market it's half the price and just as good. I've had great success with their Cali & Hazy.

 

[Shenanigans]

Anyone else using the cellar science yeast? In my market it's half the price and just as good. I've had great success with their Cali & Hazy.

Is that not repackaged yeast from one or more of the other suppliers?
If so then it should indeed be just as good as the big brand-named stuff for twice the price.
You just need to figure out which repacked yeast it is.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If I recall correctly, I don’t believe 97 is a direct descendant of the Chico family but they share similar lineage. Either way it certainly performs similarly. Good attenuation, clean profile, and probably a better floccuator than Chico

This gets down to definitions to some extent, but since BRY-97 got its name as it was derived from BRY-96 which is the granddaddy of the Chico family then I would say that BRY-97 is a member of the Chico family. (and I would call Chico a family rather than a single strain)
On the assumption that it's repacked as MJ M44, then this family tree derived from genome sequencing would put BRY-97 in the 1056/US-05 subgroup of the family : https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

although the fingerprints (not sequencing!) posted by @TwitchellBrew above suggest it may be closer to the WLP001 subgroup than 1056. And to give full credit, they were done by Matt Cottrell of Heavy Seas Brewing in Baltimore :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Is that not repackaged yeast from one or more of the other suppliers?
If so then it should indeed be just as good as the big brand-named stuff for twice the price.
You just need to figure out which repacked yeast it is.

Cellar Science is the Moorbeer repack of AEB in the US; Apex is the AEB brand in some markets.

There's been several threads about them over in the yeast subforum - I've not used any myself but their Cali seems OK if not people's favourite.

 

[Dgallo]

This gets down to definitions to some extent, but since BRY-97 got its name as it was derived from BRY-96 which is the granddaddy of the Chico family then I would say that BRY-97 is a member of the Chico family. (and I would call Chico a family rather than a single strain)
On the assumption that it's repacked as MJ M44, then this family tree derived from genome sequencing would put BRY-97 in the 1056/US-05 subgroup of the family : https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

although the fingerprints (not sequencing!) posted by @TwitchellBrew above suggest it may be closer to the WLP001 subgroup than 1056. And to give full credit, they were done by Matt Cottrell of Heavy Seas Brewing in Baltimore :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

Thanks for the clarification

 

[TwitchellBrew]

This gets down to definitions to some extent, but since BRY-97 got its name as it was derived from BRY-96 which is the granddaddy of the Chico family then I would say that BRY-97 is a member of the Chico family. (and I would call Chico a family rather than a single strain)
On the assumption that it's repacked as MJ M44, then this family tree derived from genome sequencing would put BRY-97 in the 1056/US-05 subgroup of the family : https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

although the fingerprints (not sequencing!) posted by @TwitchellBrew above suggest it may be closer to the WLP001 subgroup than 1056. And to give full credit, they were done by Matt Cottrell of Heavy Seas Brewing in Baltimore :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...f-white-labs-yeast.642831/page-2#post-8916547

Thanks so much for the detailed clarification! Always appreciate your info.

 

[Fergal]

Is that not repackaged yeast from one or more of the other suppliers?
If so then it should indeed be just as good as the big brand-named stuff for twice the price.
You just need to figure out which repacked yeast it is.

I believe the cali is us-05 and the hazy is London fog. Works for me!

 

[Fergal]

I didn't realise it was just repackaged yeast though!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I believe the cali is us-05 and the hazy is London fog. Works for me!

Don't use "is" in that context unless you mean it - which you don't. It's like saying Dean Waugh "is" Steve Waugh, or Danny Waugh "is" Mark Waugh - as brothers they are closely related, but that doesn't mean they're as good at playing cricket as Steve and Mark. But it's still true to say they are all members of the Waugh family.

US-05 and WLP001 are both members of the Chico family, and both are descendants of Seibel BRY-96, but they have picked up different mutations and chromosome rearrangements along the way. Which probably accounts for why they brew slightly differently if you know them well enough, US-05 can be prone to a hint of peach that you don't get with WLP001.

So since we're talking about white label versions of the AEB strains, these are not exactly the same as US-05 or London Fog, but they are related. Presumably Cali is their Chico, AEB Fermoale AY4 and Hazy is AEB Fermoale New-E, which seems to be a derivative of London Ale III.

 

[Fergal]

Thanks for telling me what I think or don't think, but in this case I do think Steve Waugh is Steve Waugh as that is what is being put out there by my supplier including a video comparing hazy with london fog. They could be wrong and you could be right on the origins though.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

in this case I do think Steve Waugh is Steve Waugh as that is what is being put out there by my supplier

Your PDF is literally saying "propagated from the parent strain of" - in the same way that Dean and Danny are "propagated from the parent strain of " Steve and Mark. You could say the same of US-05, BRY-97 and Elysian/Imperial A30 - but the former have chromosome rearrangements and even entire missing chromosomes relative to the latter, as well as brewing noticeably differently.

I'm not telling you what to think, but I do know how imprecise brewers can be about strain identities, and how yeast producers take advantage of that lack of precision to make out that their products are identical to existing ones when they're not. It's in their commercial interest to do that, don't be suckered by their marketing.

 

[aaronm13]

this keg is about kicked but might be my favorite west coast that I’ve made so far. Recap below;

Grain bill:
75% - 2row
15% - Vienna
6% - Carahell
4% - dextrose
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.012
Abv: 8.4%
IBU: 83

Hopped with Columbus, Motueka, Nectaron

Sorry for going back to a post a few months old but have only found this post and getting up to speed with it. What would be a good substitute for Motueka as I really don't like that hop? Want to use Nectaron in a west coast and this one looks amazing, like all your beers.

Interested to try out the Vienna and Carahell too. I use low colour Golden Promise as my base malt so would I need to use as high a percentage of these two malts with GP as it has a lot more character to it than 2 row or Pilsner malt?

 

[Dgallo]

Sorry for going back to a post a few months old but have only found this post and getting up to speed with it. What would be a good substitute for Motueka as I really don't like that hop? Want to use Nectaron in a west coast and this one looks amazing, like all your beers.

Interested to try out the Vienna and Carahell too. I use low colour Golden Promise as my base malt so would I need to use as high a percentage of these two malts with GP as it has a lot more character to it than 2 row or Pilsner malt?

I think nectaron would work well. It really does well in west coast IPAs. So upping the nectaron and going just nectaron and Columbus will work fine. I personally enjoy 3 hop combos, if you do too than you could replace the Motueka with mosaic, strata or Nelson. Honestly any 3rd hop you want

In terms of malt, golden promise does have a sweetness, so I would just keep the Carahell and Vienna the same. It will give a decent malt backbone

 

[Broothru]

I think nectaron would work well. It really does well in west coast IPAs. So upping the nectaron and going just nectaron and Columbus will work fine. I personally enjoy 3 hop combos, if you do too than you could replace the Motueka with mosaic, strata or Nelson. Honestly any 3rd hop you want

In terms of malt, golden promise does have a sweetness, so I would just keep the Carahell and Vienna the same. It will give a decent malt backbone

I second the use of Nectaron. Currently five days into the fermentation of a New Zealand Pilsner: Nectaron FWH, Nelson and Pacifica along with more Nectaron in a :20 minute whirlpool @ 70C. It’s my first time using Nectaron, and it’s amazing so far, with fermentation about 60~65% complete. Lots of tropical aromas.

 

[aaronm13]

I think nectaron would work well. It really does well in west coast IPAs. So upping the nectaron and going just nectaron and Columbus will work fine. I personally enjoy 3 hop combos, if you do too than you could replace the Motueka with mosaic, strata or Nelson. Honestly any 3rd hop you want

In terms of malt, golden promise does have a sweetness, so I would just keep the Carahell and Vienna the same. It will give a decent malt backbone

Thanks. I've all 3 hops you mentioned so will see what the quality is like before deciding. The mosaic isn't the best from what I remember and the Strata is from 22. Will go heavy on the nectaron as I want it to stand out.

 

[ihavenonickname]

94% weyerman premium pils 6% wheat malt 34/70 1.058 to 1.010. 52 IBU hotside. Step mash.

Simcoe boil then citra and ctz whirlpool, knock out hops 2oz citra lupomax, end of ferm dry hop and soft crash dry hop 12oz citra and Nelson. Hit it every where I could.

The foam and body and texture on this are really cool. The aroma is excellent citra nelson is so great. The flavor is just too much, it’s so maxed out it lacks some drink ability. I think the weyerman pils and the 34/70 just make the malty fullness so much and while it’s not too bitter it’s just so dang hoppy.

So I think as my tastes change over the years I now shy away from lager yeast and flavorful pilsner malt for WCIPA. Weyerman is just too much malt flavor. I got some tips from ghost town to use gambrinus pils as it has way less flavor and to stick with one of the super neutral Chico strains, an obvious choice.

 

[Indian_villager]

Pardon my recent questions on Bry-97, this one came out a banger

92% 2 row (Montana Craft)
8% Vienna (Avangard)

1.057 OG
1.007 FG

3.5 AAU Simcoe FWH
10.5 AAU Simcoe 30min
28AAU Strata Whirlpool @170F 20 min
14AAU Simcoe Whirlpool @170F 20min

4oz Simcoe DH1
4oz Nectaron DH2

Bry-97 yeast.

Kegged with 1/4tsp of gelatin, 1.5g of ascorbic acid, and .25g of KMeta

This was my first batch with a conical fermenter and got overzealous with yeast and hop dumps, got only 2 gallons at the end. Plenty learned on how to not mess this up going forward.

 

[jordanfrenzy]

Pardon my recent questions on Bry-97, this one came out a banger

92% 2 row (Montana Craft)
8% Vienna (Avangard)

1.057 OG
1.007 FG

3.5 AAU Simcoe FWH
10.5 AAU Simcoe 30min
28AAU Strata Whirlpool @170F 20 min
14AAU Simcoe Whirlpool @170F 20min

4oz Simcoe DH1
4oz Nectaron DH2

Bry-97 yeast.

Kegged with 1/4tsp of gelatin, 1.5g of ascorbic acid, and .25g of KMeta

This was my first batch with a conical fermenter and got overzealous with yeast and hop dumps, got only 2 gallons at the end. Plenty learned on how to not mess this up going forward.

After pitching BRY-97 in a pale ale for the first time, I read a lot of horror stories about it. Had a great ferment with it. Two packs into a 1.056 wort, saw activity within 6 hours and was at terminal in about 3 days. Kegged with BioFine and is looking great after only 24 hours in the keg.

 

[synonymous18]

View attachment 874214

Looking to brew this one next week. Did you do a 1:1:1 dry hop and if you did, would you change anything?

 

[redrocker652002]

After pitching BRY-97 in a pale ale for the first time, I read a lot of horror stories about it. Had a great ferment with it. Two packs into a 1.056 wort, saw activity within 6 hours and was at terminal in about 3 days. Kegged with BioFine and is looking great after only 24 hours in the keg.

2 packs? Cool. I generally use one in my pale's and most of them are in the 1.055 to 1.160 area. I usually don't even look at them for at least a week more like two, but glad to see you got good results. That's cool.

 

[Dgallo]

Looking to brew this one next week. Did you do a 1:1:1 dry hop and if you did, would you change anything?

I’ll check my notes when I’m home but I think it was a 2:1:1 Nelson strata mosaic

 

[jordanfrenzy]

2 packs? Cool. I generally use one in my pale's and most of them are in the 1.055 to 1.160 area. I usually don't even look at them for at least a week more like two, but glad to see you got good results. That's cool.

I pitch 2 packets on just about everything other than something like a Saison yeast. I'd rather overpitch than underpitch with something as easy and inexpensive as dry yeast. I have no idea if BrewersFriend's yeast calculator is accurate or not, but it recommended 2 packs for 1.056 at the "ProBrewer" pitch rate.

 

[bwible]

After pitching BRY-97 in a pale ale for the first time, I read a lot of horror stories about it. Had a great ferment with it. Two packs into a 1.056 wort, saw activity within 6 hours and was at terminal in about 3 days. Kegged with BioFine and is looking great after only 24 hours in the keg.

I’ve been a liquid yeast guy forever. Started trying dry yeasts maybe a year ago. BRY97 is now one of my favorite yeasts for American styles.