American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[Shenanigans]

I add it to the purged serving keg Prior to close transfer to it. I’ll hook up the co2 to the liquid post of my keg. I’ll have the measured amount of biofine in a syringe. Then I’ll remove the prv while the gas is running, place the syringe tip in the prv opening and add it to the keg. I’ll let the gas run a few more seconds. Then I close up the prv. Then I’ll close transfer the beer to the keg. This beer should have already been crashed and cold. The racking mixes it pretty well but since the keg was purged, you can lay it on its side and rock the keg around to mix it better

Thanks for explaining your process. I'll try once I start doing closed transfers. Still trying to figure out how to fit my fermonster in the fridge for the cold crash lol

 

[Langerz]

What was your biofine rate and what was your process? If it’s an older bottle, you have to shake the **** out of it before applying. It separates on its own over time.

I used 10mL of Biofine for 5 gallons, which looking back is a bit on the low side but not terrible. It's similar to what I've used done in the past, but I also dry hopped this one more than in the past so maybe needed more Biofine. I did not shake it before adding that is a new tip for me. Bottle is probably 9 ish months old.

My process is pretty similar to what Dgallo describes above. The only difference being I closed transferred the beer before adding the Biofine. My thought was there is less head space to allow O2 in and also to purge after with that method. I force carbed this one partially with the 30psi/roll keg for ~ 10 minutes 3 times so I think it should have been well mixed after that.

Maybe shake the crap out of the bottle and add a bit more?

I hold it at 160-161 for 10 minutes.



@Langerz why do you think it’s not that great? Sounds like a killer beer.

It's not a bad beer, but doesn't measure up to the previous ones I've done with this style. It's doesn't have quite the hop flavor both on the bitter and aroma side that I've had with previous cases. It reminds me of the first time I brewed it. There's a post somewhere from me in this thread basically saying "guys what am I missing this doesn't taste like what you guys are describing". Dgallo replied basically "let it drop clear and report back". I gave it a few more days and wow it was incredible. That's been the case every time I brewed it until this one.

I should add I did a massive update to brewing and fermenting equipment over the winter and this is the first time with that style on this setup. Everything else I've done on the new set up has been great though including some old school west coast IPAs.

 

[Langerz]

Thanks for explaining your process. I'll try once I start doing closed transfers. Still trying to figure out how to fit my fermonster in the fridge for the cold crash lol

If you look around there dirt cheap chest freezers available often. That plus an inkbird and you are good to go. They are a bit of a pain reaching down into them, but a low cost option.

 

[Shenanigans]

If you look around there dirt cheap chest freezers available often. That plus an inkbird and you are good to go. They are a bit of a pain reaching down into them, but a low cost option.

Yes, if I lived alone I would do that in a heartbeat but my girlfriend is already complaining about me taking over the whole basement with my brewing equipment, so I'm stuck with a small fridge. She's also been greenwashed so dirt cheap old freezers won't pass her energy efficiency requirements
I just need to get some quick fit NC connectors with a lower profile than the traditional ones and then the Fermonster should just about fit.

 

[Dgallo]

Yes, if I lived alone I would do that in a heartbeat but my girlfriend is already complaining about me taking over the whole basement with my brewing equipment, so I'm stuck with a small fridge. She's also been greenwashed so dirt cheap old freezers won't pass her energy efficiency requirements
I just need to get some quick fit NC connectors with a lower profile than the traditional ones and then the Fermonster should just about fit.

I took over the old breast milk chest freezer….almost got killed for that one lol

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Anyone here know where I can get Biofine here in Europe (Germany) or what a suitable alternative product would be, or am I stuck with gelatine?

AIUI Biofine is just silicic acid - so kieselsol.

 

[Shenanigans]

AIUI Biofine is just silicic acid - so kieselsol.

So this stuuf would be similar then I guess?

https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/brewferm-beersol-1-litre-bottle-p-5627.html?cPath=3_200

 

[G_robertus]

AFAIK Beersol is SiO2 and Biofine is as well. Should be the same product.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I think this is a very good recipe, I brewed it once as an ipa and was quite happy with it. I want to brew it again, but this time as a 5% to 5.5% pale ale. I'll still stick with the same percentage of grains, approximately 70% Barke Pilsner and 30% 2-Row, just at lesser amounts to finish at a lower abv. I want to use hops I already have in the freezer, so the hopping schedule I'm considering is:

60 min. Magnum (17.5 ibu's)
10 min. Citra (11.8 ibu's)
2 oz. Citra WP @ 170° 30 mins. (10.3 ibu's)
.25 oz. Sabro LupoMax @ 170° 30 mins. (1.9 ibu's)
3 oz. Citra DH
This gets me to around 41.5 ibu's

My goal re: hop flavor is to use the Sabro so that it plays in the background to the Citra, making you realize 'Citra, but something else going on here, without saying oh, SABRO!!'

One side question for @ihavenonickname or anyone else - wondering how are you getting an SRM of 3.9 using only two grains, one at 2.0 and the other at 1.8 when you do a 30 min. boil? When I enter my recipe in Beersmith I'm getting an SRM of 3.2 with a 60 min. boil.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I think this is a very good recipe, I brewed it once as an ipa and was quite happy with it. I want to brew it again, but this time as a 5% to 5.5% pale ale. I'll still stick with the same percentage of grains, approximately 70% Barke Pilsner and 30% 2-Row, just at lesser amounts to finish at a lower abv. I want to use hops I already have in the freezer, so the hopping schedule I'm considering is:

60 min. Magnum (17.5 ibu's)
10 min. Citra (11.8 ibu's)
2 oz. Citra WP @ 170° 30 mins. (10.3 ibu's)
.25 oz. Sabro LupoMax @ 170° 30 mins. (1.9 ibu's)
3 oz. Citra DH
This gets me to around 41.5 ibu's

My goal re: hop flavor is to use the Sabro so that it plays in the background to the Citra, making you realize 'Citra, but something else going on here, without saying oh, SABRO!!'

One side question for @ihavenonickname or anyone else - wondering how are you getting an SRM of 3.9 using only two grains, one at 2.0 and the other at 1.8 when you do a 30 min. boil? When I enter my recipe in Beersmith I'm getting an SRM of 3.2 with a 60 min. boil.

Sounds like a good plan. When I do pale ale I usually add some Vienna for a little something - blasphemy I know! As for color I think you are just getting different numbers from the difference in calculators - brewfather vs beersmith. But I don’t pay attention to the SRM for pale beers in general.

 

[LCBA]

I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

 

[Dgallo]

I happened to see this youtube video and around the 22 minute mark, he mentions "yeast soaking up hop flavor" and how too much yeast can be a problem. I've never heard of this before, has anyone experienced or experimented with this?

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

 

[beervoid]

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.

 

[Dgallo]

it seems to be a double edged sword, if not enough yeast in suspension you can also get undesirables. I forget which panel but in one panel they where speaking about dryhopping after fuge resulting in garbage smell beer.

if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes

 

[mrcastellino]

The way he is explaining it is not correct. Yeast cells can have a positive attraction to certain hop compounds. So when they the yeast cells become inactive and drop out of solution, they can draw hop compounds with them.

To combat this, folks practice soft crashing. Dropping temps prior to dryhoping to cause the most yeast to drop out prior to the hops going on

Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.

 

[Dgallo]

Although as a counter point, many breweries still like to dry hop with ~ 1 degree plato left in active fermentation and are able to achieve excellent aroma. Perhaps the additional oxygen scrubbing occurring from the yeast offsets to a degree any aroma loss from yeast in suspension. Either way, it seems to be an example of competing goals.

All breweries make decision based on logistics for their systems, capabilities, and price points . My local who makes very solid IPAs, add their dry hops with 2-2.5*p (roughly 8 points in sg left), starts crashing and closes it up. For his system this allows him to rouse the hops, naturally carbonate, and get a level of aroma and flavor they are happy with it. Also helps from a cost perspective

And I know a local whale that waits til ferm is complete. Preforms some cone dumps, then dryhops with a hop cannon, and begins to crash. They will rouse with co2 as well.

We aren’t worried about profit margins as homebrewers so we do have some liberties breweries do not.

 

[beervoid]

if you find it, I would love to read up on that. Obviously we can’t even get remotely close to CF a beer but I’d be interested in the design of the experience and the outcomes

found it


The funny thing is, I've heard some australian hype brewers pushing a new dryhopping technique that is exactly that procedure, fuge the beer clean then dryhop. forgot how they called it.

 

[Fergal]

They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.

 

[beervoid]

They call it clean fusion. I was thinking the same thing. Brewery is called one drop. They make some great beers to be fair but seem determined to coin the next DDH or hdhc or whatever.

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

 

[ihavenonickname]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

 

[mrcastellino]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

that was my thought…just replace the centrifuge with cold crashing and fining.

Cold crash in fermentor…fine…dump yeast or transfer off. Dry hop…cold crash…fine.

 

[elproducto]

I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.

 

[beervoid]

I think I'm going to switch to biofine. In starting to feel like gelatin strips a ton of hol character.

I brewed an all Mosaic wcipa and pre findings it was incredible hop bomb. After finings it lost a fair bit of flavor and aroma but was brilliantly clear.

My closed transfer process is tight, so I know that's not the problem.

New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.

 

[Dgallo]

New West coast style is also a bit hazy these days.

I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo

What about biofine or gelatin before the dry hop? Could have a similar effect.

I do not know as I’ve never tried but I’m assuming it would have a similar effect. my only concerns with this practice would be the additional transfer increasing o2 risks and if you do rack to dryhop, I’d be worried some of the biofine would go back in solution and pull the dryhops down immediately. That said you could always rouse if/when possible

 

[beervoid]

I feel it’s quite rare that they have a haze to them. They aren’t all brilliantly clear but def pretty much. That said I have had some modern west from fidens that were hazy as hell, but I also think that’s mainly them trying to get cans on the shelf’s to keep up with demand

How would you define this haze?
Even stone would have some of the haze im talking about back in the days.
I mean it is still clear but if you watch closely it has small particles in it.

 

[Deka22]

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

This is amazing

 

[Fergal]

Have you had any of those beers? be interesting to know how they taste

Yeah I've had their "clean fusion" beers. I mean, they are one of the best ipa brewers in Australia so their beers are usually pretty solid. Haven't been able to do a side by side comparison to see how much better their beers are with this process but what I can say is that I wasn't rushing out to try and do it myself. To me it's just an extension of what I currently do anyway by dropping all the yeast out before dry hopping. I use a fermzilla so I can remove the collection tub and have pretty clean beer to dry hop with. It would make a good brulosophy experiment though....

 

[spersichilli]

I’ve been on a kick brewing these, this is one I did back in January for my “6th anniversary” of homebrewing. West Coast Triple IPA, 6 different hops dry hopped around 8lb/bbl. Probably my favorite west coast I’ve done, I’ve been playing around with different ways to add a subtle clean maltiness without using crystal and I’ve settled on using about 5-10% Vienna in most of mine. This hop combo is awesome as well, the mosaic and Simcoe are the perfect old/new blend and the NZ hops play off of them nicely (Nectaron is a perfect west coast IPA hop, better than NE in my opinion). The Nelson CGX leaned dank here so have earmarked it for exclusively WCIPA. My only change for next time is pumping that IBU up to 130/140, I think a more firm bitterness would round this out nicely. Picture is actually from my last can that I opened in April (so was like 2-3 mos old), color is good there but it was a touch lighter at packaging. This got a couple medals, a silver and a bronze in DIPA categories, the only real knock was that the bitterness was a little too soft - I also don't think judges appreciate NZ hops in "American IPA" type categories in competitions as much as I do when drinking WCIPA but this was more brewed for my palate/drinking experience than to fit BJCP.

OG: 1.086
FG: 1.010
ABV: 10.2%
Calculated IBU: 108
Yeast: WLP001

GRAIN
90% 2 row
5% Vienna
5% Dextrose

HOPS
1oz CTZ (44 ibu) at 60
1.5 oz CTZ (41 ibu) at 20
WP: 2oz Nectaron, 2oz Simcoe, 20g Mosaic Incognito (30 mins at 165ish - mosaic incognito was dip hopped with the NP method - approx 21 ibu total)

DH: 6oz Simcoe, 6oz Mosaic, 4oz Nectaron, 3oz Strata CGX, 3oz Nelson CGX, 2oz Columbus lupomax. Approx 36 hours at 40ish degrees, agitated 2-3 times. This was done post fermentation off of the yeast. Added my biofine in with the dry hop to prevent having to open up the fermenter/keg multiple times.

Water was 300:50 SO4:Cl (with 10ppm mg), adjusted mash to 5.2 and then knockout at 5.0 with phosphoric

 

[Fergal]

I'm en route to the US from Australia as we speak. Nola & NYC. Does anyone have any recommendations for me in terms of breweries to try that are doing this style (and IPAs in general) well. I know there is not as much of a craft beer scene in New Orleans but New York should be a different story I presume. I will be in Brooklyn/Manhattan for a day and then upstate to Pine Hill. Any recommendations appreciated!